"An Open Letter to White Men in America"

justchecked · 26-07-2015 03:25PM

Dear good looking people.

Dear people born to rich parents.

Dear smart people.

Dear people with good health.

wah wah wah fix the world for me.

RedemptionZ · 26-07-2015 04:44PM

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

In all fairness, as much as I hate the America-centric "white people are evil" and privilege crap, in America race and class are very related. We're very lucky in this country that there isn't institutional racism unlike in the USA and Britain. After American slavery, a small portion of land was thrown their way and after that it still was incredibly difficult for black people to better themselves because racism was diffuse throughout the place. Much later affirmative action came in, but it was a way for the US government to pass the buck instead of actively trying to regenerate, better and fund poor areas and schools, which are disproportionately black over there. So poor kids, with working class accents, with underfunded educations have to struggle a lot more, just like the working class here, but here the colour isn't nearly as big an issue. Race is such a focal point for Americans that, although there are many trailer trash types, I'd put my money on (and this is just speculation) if you took some white lad living in a trailer park and a black young fella from Harlem, dressed them up and got them interviews with businesses the latter would still be more likely to get it.

However, I hate when Irish people (white, middle/upper class people) talk about white privilege in Ireland. There's some casual racism about, not even comparable to Britain, America, France, Israel etc, but there isn't institutional racism. Class and wealth is the most important deciding factor worldwide. But I wouldn't dismiss the importance of race in America; it really is that backwards a country in a lot of ways. My cousin was married to a Puerto Rican in New York - probably the most diverse place in America, and nonetheless constantly got dirty looks and reactions from young, old, black, Hispanic, white and whatever else alike. I know that's only anecdotal, but it wasn't only a handful of times.

Edit: I think we in Ireland can really easily overlook how backwards America can be with things like that, and really overlook the importance of things like race there because we are so lucky in that we don't have these issues to even nearly a similar degree.

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

Whites sit in the 10-20% depending on the state while blacks and Hispanics are 20-30%. Taking into account population, that's disproportionate, however numbers wise it still means there's a lot of white people living in poverty. I know the history of why blacks are traditionally poorer, but this isn't the fault of any of the intended target audience for this open letter. You can argue class and race are related all you want, but in reality Black people who come from good financial backgrounds are doing just fine. Poor people who are black are not doing just fine.

You say your cousin got dirty looks for marrying a Puerto Rican, did they forget about his white privilege that day? America is a racist country no doubt about it, but regardless of who caused it, every race has their racists now. It's not evil whites vs angelic non whites. If people like this 'doctorate in white privilege', would stop turning this into a race issue and actually offer solutions to poverty for ALL races, maybe then this race and class correlation wouldn't exist anymore.

Zillah · 26-07-2015 05:11PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Get a black or latino male in the United States who comes from middle to upper middle class and those problems don't exist.

Not at all, actually. There's a UK performer (can't remember his name right now) who is black and a millionaire, and he got so sick of being pulled over and questioned by cops that he started filming the encounters on his phone and putting them on Youtube. They see a black face in a Ferrari and they stop him.

White privilege exists and it's weird to see so many people here dismissing it so casually. You don't need to feel bad about it, it doesn't mean you didn't earn what you have, it doesn't mean you're an asshole; it just means that on occasion you get small advantages where a person with dark skin wouldn't, that you sometimes get treated like a normal person where a person with dark skin gets treated with suspicion.

You could drive around London in a Ferrari and people will assume you own it instead of stole it.

Grayson · 26-07-2015 05:22PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

Whites sit in the 10-20% depending on the state while blacks and Hispanics are 20-30%. Taking into account population, that's disproportionate, however numbers wise it still means there's a lot of white people living in poverty. I know the history of why blacks are traditionally poorer, but this isn't the fault of any of the intended target audience for this open letter. You can argue class and race are related all you want, but in reality Black people who come from good financial backgrounds are doing just fine. Poor people who are black are not doing just fine.

You say your cousin got dirty looks for marrying a Puerto Rican, did they forget about his white privilege that day? America is a racist country no doubt about it, but regardless of who caused it, every race has their racists now. It's not evil whites vs angelic non whites. If people like this 'doctorate in white privilege', would stop turning this into a race issue and actually offer solutions to poverty for ALL races, maybe then this race and class correlation wouldn't exist anymore.

But....The establishment is majority white. Police, judges etc are white. And if a white kid goes to court with the same crime as a black kid, the white kid will get a lesser sentence. Even if they are from the same economic background. This is especially true for drug crimes. All statistics back this up. The system is inherently against black people.

Ruu · 26-07-2015 05:30PM

Used to really enjoy the Huffington Post, now just catering to populist nonsense.

Eugene Norman · 26-07-2015 05:34PM

I was watching a show about the highland clearances recently where, supposedly, tens of thousands of people were dispossessed, their crofts dismantled and their families thrown out into the snow or rain to die, the highlands ethnically cleansed for sheep -- and I laughed out loud because as Louis CK the American comedian has pointed out that white people have always been privileged so that can't be true.

Eugene Norman · 26-07-2015 05:38PM

Zillah wrote: »

Not at all, actually. There's a UK performer (can't remember his name right now) who is black and a millionaire, and he got so sick of being pulled over and questioned by cops that he started filming the encounters on his phone and putting them on Youtube. They see a black face in a Ferrari and they stop him.

White privilege exists and it's weird to see so many people here dismissing it so casually. You don't need to feel bad about it, it doesn't mean you didn't earn what you have, it doesn't mean you're an asshole; it just means that on occasion you get small advantages where a person with dark skin wouldn't, that you sometimes get treated like a normal person where a person with dark skin gets treated with suspicion.

You could drive around London in a Ferrari and people will assume you own it instead of stole it.

You do realise you don't live in America right ( I'm pretty sure that YouTube is American). The cops don't arrest people here for shooting up on Talbot street and tend not to pull people over without cause, ie speeding cameras.

Eugene Norman · 26-07-2015 05:42PM

FURET wrote: »

Living in the Middle East, being married to an Asian woman, and working with predominantly Indian colleagues, I experience a definite unearned advantage due to being white. I get treated by default with more courtesy and deference than my wife and colleagues by many non-whites in everyday situations (at the mall, at the supermarket, by the police, at restaurants, you name it) and my opinion in my immediate work environment seems to be more highly valued. This doesn't hold true when whites interact with other whites, or in majority white environments. But in situations where whites are minorities, (such as in large parts of Asia or cities in the Middle East, but perhaps not in Zimbabwe!), there is such a thing as white privilege, whether you're male or female.

The perception is that white people created the modern world and are the most advanced and competent civilization. Ironically, white people today have almost abandoned viewing society and culture in terms of color - but your average Asian and African has not. In the middle east, most of the rudeness and prejudice comes from non-whites being mean to other non-whites because they're non-white or varying shades of brown. I've had seemingly respectable Indians tell me they won't sit beside black Africans, as though that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say. I've heard Burmese, Filipinos, Chinese and Arab people speak of Indians as "elephant people who smell of curry". I've heard this kind of thing very often in a variety of places from many different people, all said in the most casual way imaginable.

Of course, such people can and probably do make bad comments about whites behind my back too. The difference is that contempt is not hidden when a prejudiced Indian interacts with a prejudiced Chinese person. But all tend to be deferential when interacting with whites.

It shouldn't be this way, but it is in many cases. I don't know what it's like in the US. But in global terms, to be a middle class, university-educated heterosexual white male with EU citizenship is extremely beneficial. Mind you, you'll be charged a lot more at markets, and you may become a target of anti-western terrorism.

If you are getting this its displaced American or UK deference. Remember the ads in the South Korean newspaper that suggested no Irish need apply?

I'd also be surprised if American blacks were treated like that by Indians. It wouldn't make for good working relations in IT. First world privilege does exist.

conorhal · 26-07-2015 05:51PM

justchecked wrote: »

Dear good looking people.

Dear people born to rich parents.

Dear smart people.

Dear people with good health.

wah wah wah fix the world for me.

I'm with Frank Costello from 'The Departed' regards being completely bored by the topic.

"I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me. Years ago we had the church. That was only a way of saying - we had each other. The Knights of Columbus were real head-breakers; true guineas. They took over their piece of the city. Twenty years after an Irishman couldn't get a f*** job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace. That's what the blacks don't realize. If I got one thing against the black chappies, it's this - no one gives it to you. You have to take it."

If you're going sit around waiting for somebody to hand you the level of privilege you think you're entitled to, you'll be waiting a long goddamn time. Fair balls to Obama, he didn't sit on his arse waiting to be president by virtue of a quota that made it a black mans turn. He cut the knees out from under Hillary and pounded the crap out of a Republican party that was in disarray. Chicago rules.

c_man · 26-07-2015 05:59PM

So I won't get pulled over as much as others when I happen to be driving my Ferrari in the states? Jeez, white privilege ain't what it used to be.

ElvisChrist6 · 26-07-2015 06:01PM

RedemptionZ wrote: »

http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/

Whites sit in the 10-20% depending on the state while blacks and Hispanics are 20-30%. Taking into account population, that's disproportionate, however numbers wise it still means there's a lot of white people living in poverty. I know the history of why blacks are traditionally poorer, but this isn't the fault of any of the intended target audience for this open letter. You can argue class and race are related all you want, but in reality Black people who come from good financial backgrounds are doing just fine. Poor people who are black are not doing just fine.

Yeah, as I said, class is the main issue all over. And you're dead right that it's not the fault of most people or most white people, who are the target of this. It is, in my opinion, the fault of a government run by those who just care about the rich and were for a long time (many still are) racist or just didn't care about black people or poor people in general. However, I thought (and perhaps I was wrong) that your post ignored the importance of the American system with regards to race. From your link, apart from West Virginia and Kentucky, the white percentage isn't above 13% anywhere which is too high of course, but there is still a huge difference.

You say your cousin got dirty looks for marrying a Puerto Rican, did they forget about his white privilege that day? America is a racist country no doubt about it, but regardless of who caused it, every race has their racists now. It's not evil whites vs angelic non whites. If people like this 'doctorate in white privilege', would stop turning this into a race issue and actually offer solutions to poverty for ALL races, maybe then this race and class correlation wouldn't exist anymore.

At the start of my post, I said I don't go in for the white privilege thing. I never said whites are racist and evil, in fact I pointed out that it was all types because my point was race is hugely important over there. Much more than here. The people with power in America are a relatively small amount of people; I agree with you that a lot of this race shite is aimed at normal people way too much. This letter isn't something I would subscribe to, but as I said above, people here (myself included plenty of the time) forget how much impact race has there and its day to day importance because we're so lucky to not live where race is an issue.

ElvisChrist6 · 26-07-2015 06:07PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You do realise you don't live in America right ( I'm pretty sure that YouTube is American). The cops don't arrest people here for shooting up on Talbot street and tend not to pull people over without cause, ie speeding cameras.

In fairness, I see guards from up the country stopping fellas on Talbot Street/Marlborough Street all the time for no reason. They're usually only black with dirt though...

FURET · 26-07-2015 06:56PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

If you are getting this its displaced American or UK deference. Remember the ads in the South Korean newspaper that suggested no Irish need apply?

I'd also be surprised if American blacks were treated like that by Indians. It wouldn't make for good working relations in IT. First world privilege does exist.

You're projecting. In the majority of cases, there are only "whites" and "westerners". The subdivisions don't usually matter.

darkpagandeath · 26-07-2015 07:31PM

Hmm a doctorate in white privilege.

It conjures up images of a Guy like this.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/240/262/a7a.png

se02orqua5xz9v · 26-07-2015 07:57PM

conorhal wrote: »

I'm with Frank Costello from 'The Departed' regards being completely bored by the topic.

"I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me. Years ago we had the church. That was only a way of saying - we had each other. The Knights of Columbus were real head-breakers; true guineas. They took over their piece of the city. Twenty years after an Irishman couldn't get a f*** job, we had the presidency. May he rest in peace. That's what the blacks don't realize. If I got one thing against the black chappies, it's this - no one gives it to you. You have to take it."

I'm pretty sure the actual line is, "That's what the niggers don't realise".

The_B_Man · 26-07-2015 08:20PM

I wish people on boards would stop spreading this white privilege tumblr bollix.
The nature of globalisation means that whatever some pack of saps in America do, will have knock on effects to us over here. Potentially we could have some kind of positive racism where there's a form of discrimination put upon white men to compensate for this white privilege.

Also, I note the thread title mentions only white men. So presumably women have been discriminated enough so they're in the clear. Its only us white males that haven't gone through some kind of "rites of passage" where we haven't gotten our comeuppance yet.

**** that for a laugh.

BTW, the last time this ****e was talked about on boards, wasnt the consensus that the white privilege was because it was in the states (white majority country). Someone suggested that if a white person went to live in Africa or Asia, then that privilege would be non-existant, and they'd in fact have the same downsides that's being seen in America with the non-whites.

jcd5971 · 26-07-2015 08:29PM

Who cares, white privilege, middle class privilege, Western privilege. I'll take whatever advantage I possibly can get over anybody else and I won't feel even a teeny weeny bit guilty, because I'm human and that's human nature amigos, it's not all rainbows and gummy bears.

kupus · 26-07-2015 08:56PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

Who cares, white privilege, middle class privilege, Western privilege. I'll take whatever advantage I possibly can get over anybody else and I won't feel even a teeny weeny bit guilty, because I'm human and that's human nature amigos, it's not all rainbows and gummy bears.

Don't forget the medal for every kid who participated, even the stupid kid that came last.
I mean ffs life is tough, what's the point of teaching your kids to be soft pussies.

Wha wha wha

kupus · 26-07-2015 08:57PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

Who cares, white privilege, middle class privilege, Western privilege. I'll take whatever advantage I possibly can get over anybody else and I won't feel even a teeny weeny bit guilty, because I'm human and that's human nature amigos, it's not all rainbows and gummy bears.

Don't forget the medal for every kid who participated, even the stupid kid that came last.
I mean ffs life is tough, what's the point of teaching your kids to be soft pu88ies.

Wha wha wha

jcd5971 · 26-07-2015 09:59PM

kupus wrote: »

Don't forget the medal for every kid who participated, even the stupid kid that came last.
I mean ffs life is tough, what's the point of teaching your kids to be soft pussies.

Wha wha wha

Basically this

nullzero · 26-07-2015 10:16PM

Cracka ass cracka's

jcd5971 · 26-07-2015 10:18PM

nullzero wrote: »

Cracka ass cracka's

Digity dang wadda bing bang dang

TheLastMohican · 26-07-2015 10:26PM

This is it. It came to me in a dream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYgOlqinH7A

jcd5971 · 26-07-2015 10:33PM

TheLastMohican wrote: »

This is it. It came to me in a dream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYgOlqinH7A

This thread has now entered the weird zone...

strelok · 26-07-2015 10:34PM

jcd5971 wrote: »

This thread has now entered the weird zone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiyLtMPuWRA

jcd5971 · 26-07-2015 10:37PM

strelok wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiyLtMPuWRA

What in the actual f u c k lol

Letree · 26-07-2015 11:32PM

I didn't read it either, i don't care what he has to say.

If we really do have privilege then don't be fools and give it away.

SeanW · 27-07-2015 12:40AM

Jurnee Polite Tantrum wrote: »

Rev. Dr. John C. Dorhauer wrote the following open letter, which was published on the Huffington Post's website on Friday 24th July 2015.

Dorhauer is President of the United Church of Christ, and author of two books, Doctorate in White Privilege, Shalom Award recipient for peace commitments.

They have Doctorates in hippie lefty pseudo-liberal bull**** now? I should be surprised, but from what I understand of the way things are going in US colleges ... not so much.

RedemptionZ · 27-07-2015 12:54AM

Zillah wrote: »

Not at all, actually. There's a UK performer (can't remember his name right now) who is black and a millionaire, and he got so sick of being pulled over and questioned by cops that he started filming the encounters on his phone and putting them on Youtube. They see a black face in a Ferrari and they stop him.

So because one person records himself getting stopped it's an epidemic? That's what I'm taking from 'not at all'. I believe, although can't find statistics to back this up at the moment, anyone driving a Ferrari or a Lamborghini is much more likely to be pulled over by a police car, and much less likely to get off with a warning. If they're young and in a Ferrari the chances are even greater.

White privilege exists and it's weird to see so many people here dismissing it so casually.

Well for starters we live in Ireland, where there's around 95% white, and many of us have never been to America, so how on earth are we supposed to be ok with this blanket term 'white privilege'? I'm not only not going to feel bad about it, I'm going to question why this term is accepted in such a PC world. If I called having an easier time joining a gang in prison a 'black privilege' you can bet I'd be slated by those tumblr freaks. I wouldn't call it a black privilege, but as far as I can see it's going by the same logic.

You could drive around London in a Ferrari and people will assume you own it instead of stole it.

Again, if you drive around with that kind of car and aren't in a suit and in your 50s+ people will generally be suspicious. I have a friend who's dad is big into cars, he's white and Irish, living in the states since he was 18, his Dad owns a slightly modified Range Rover from around 2012 and is kept in great condition, my friend is 20 now and says gets stopped probably once every five times he drives it. I'm not saying it's right, but driving around with a car like that people will either think, 'daddy bought him that' or 'he stole that/bought it with drug money'. Again don't think it's a race thing. If you have a 22 year old guy driving an 80k car people will ask questions regardless of race. Do I think there is a degree of racial bias? Yes, it would be obtuse not to acknowledge it, however I think to look at it as a purely a race issue is not looking at the full picture.

Junkyard Tom · 27-07-2015 01:14AM

Did anyone else watch the recent two-part BBC documentary on how massive wealth was 'created' due to the slave trade and subsequent compensation handed out to slave owners when it was outlawed?

You'd want to be rather thick not have a modicum of understanding of how the above did indeed feed into the economies of white Britain and white USA and create a privileged class which very much contributed to 'white' success. At the end of the 2nd programme the narrator listed off all the modern day corporations/institutions that benefited enormously from those times.

"An Open Letter to White Men in America"

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