The arrest and death of Sandra Bland.

seamus · 23-07-2015 11:47AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I really don't think she's dead in the mugshot. An autopsy should clear it up

No, I agree. There are too many people involved from EMTs to cell guards for her to have been DOA at the station or had her mugshot taken after death.

Whatever about other cops and guards, I don't believe the EMTs would back them up in a cover up like this.

suicide_circus · 23-07-2015 11:55AM

seamus wrote: »

No, I agree. There are too many people involved from EMTs to cell guards for her to have been DOA at the station or had her mugshot taken after death.

Whatever about other cops and guards, I don't believe the EMTs would back them up in a cover up like this.

I agree. In which case, what is being claimed here? The cops say she was found hanging in her cell. An atopsy will reveal cause of death and I imagine that death by taser and death by asphyxiation will turn up two very different results. The video editing is suspicious but ultimately cause if death should be easy enough to determine.

seamus · 23-07-2015 12:00PM

The primary thing being claimed is that this woman shouldn't have been in a cell at all because she was wrongly arrested. Which as the video shows, is correct. She was unlawfully arrested.

But then there are a whole pile of other failings such as the booking officer allegedly being told she had a history of attempted suicide, but not marking that on the booking form. Thus, she wasn't checked as often as she should have been.

And the fact that she was still in a county jail cell 3 days after being stopped for not indicating a lane change. Even the dog slow Irish system would have her back out in less than 24 hours even if she had assaulted a police officer.

All of this points to a deliberate conspiracy to single her out and treat her like ****. Maybe the arresting officer was hoping that a couple of days in jail would cause her to lose her new job.

Guy:Incognito · 23-07-2015 12:39PM

kylith wrote: »

Hey, so would I, but I also don't see what the big whoop about putting a fag out is. So she was smoking; does that make him incapable of issuing her with a ticket?

I really dont like being around people that are smoking. I can choose not to be. What happened afterwards aside, she should have put the cigarette out out of common courtesy without even being asked. Would you be ok pulling up to a drive through window or a toll booth and the person inside blowing smoke in your face while dealing with you?

imokyrok · 23-07-2015 12:51PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I really dont like being around people that are smoking. I can choose not to be. What happened afterwards aside, she should have put the cigarette out out of common courtesy without even being asked. Would you be ok pulling up to a drive through window or a toll booth and the person inside blowing smoke in your face while dealing with you?

I'm very anti smoking but that is ridiculous. The woman is entitled to smoke in her own car! This officer Encinio deliberately targeted this woman as we can see from the uturn and speeding up behind her. He then tried to bait her by asking her what she was irritated about and when she responded with her reason he then deliberately escalated by giving her an unwarranted order to undermine her dignity.

As for not wanting to get out of the car - if you follow US affairs like I do then you will be aware that not a single day goes by without incredible police brutality being caught on video. Recent cases include people being shot to death for reaching for a phone as well as others tased to death and beaten to a pulp for no discernible reason. I'm not surprised she got scared.

When she did get out the video shows no sign of assault on the cop. He claims she kicked him but she is wearing an ankle lenght pencil skirt and flip flop sandals so between that and the videos I believe he is clearly lying. And now this very vibrant beautiful woman is dead likely all because this police officer spotted out of town licence plates. Apparently that is a common occurrence in these Texas cesspits.

BattleCorp · 23-07-2015 12:52PM

seamus wrote: »

Well, no ****. That applies for any situation. That doesn't mean she was wrong to refuse.

I'm not saying she was wrong. I'm just surmising that there would have been a different outcome if she had put out the cigarette and followed the cop's instructions.

I also don't think he was wrong to ask her to put out the cigarette. Cops/civilians have had cigarettes flicked at them before so therefore the cop could have perceived a potential hazard from the cigarette.

In my opinion? The cop would have put her in cuffs, put her in his car, then searched her car, and brought her down to the station on some vague public order charge.

You might be right there but I doubt she'd be dead though.

He asked a question, didn't like when he got an honest answer, and decided he was going to treat her like **** because he felt disrespected. If she put out the cigarette, he would have found some other tiny way to continue attempting to exert his power.

What should have happened is that he should have bit his lip and not responded to her annoyance, except to try and calm her down.

I agree with you there.

RDM_83 again · 23-07-2015 01:28PM

seamus wrote: »

Well, no ****. That applies for any situation. That doesn't mean she was wrong to refuse.

In my opinion? The cop would have put her in cuffs, put her in his car, then searched her car, and brought her down to the station on some vague public order charge.

He asked a question, didn't like when he got an honest answer, and decided he was going to treat her like **** because he felt disrespected. If she put out the cigarette, he would have found some other tiny way to continue attempting to exert his power.

What should have happened is that he should have bit his lip and not responded to her annoyance, except to try and calm her down.

Ok as pointed out by other posters a cig is risk, not much of one but having had a fag or two land on me they do sting, especially if they get trapped between clothing.

In relation to stepping out of the car, I'm not sure of US law but is it an unlawful request, I'm guessing it would be, especially as she refused to comply with the order about the smoke (so technically dealing with her leaning over window etc exposes him to a health risk).
To me they both have attitude problems and to say the initial stages wouldn't go down like that hear is false, I am reminded of a video of the garda breaking a car window of some Shell to Sea protesters, unsurprisingly the AH consensus was their actions were ok.

The issue here isn't really the arrest, its what happens after, thats where the system has failed or been deliberately abused, thats where people should be fired or face charges for a complete abdication of their duty to care.

imokyrok · 23-07-2015 01:34PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ok as pointed out by other posters a cig is risk, not much of one but having had a fag or two land on me they do sting, especially if they get trapped between clothing.

In relation to stepping out of the car, I'm not sure of US law but is it an unlawful request, I'm guessing it would be, especially as she refused to comply with the order about the smoke (so technically dealing with her leaning over window etc exposes him to a health risk).
To me they both have attitude problems and to say the initial stages wouldn't go down like that hear is false, I am reminded of a video of the garda breaking a car window of some Shell to Sea protesters, unsurprisingly the AH consensus was their actions were ok.

The issue here isn't really the arrest, its what happens after, thats where the system has failed or been deliberately abused, thats where people should be fired or face charges for a complete abdication of their duty to care.

The arrest is a problem. That excuse about the cig is just that - an excuse. And as it happens the Texas officials already conceded some days ago that the arrest was problematic and then placed Encinio on administrative leave as a result.

mikom · 23-07-2015 01:38PM

Time for my weekly "I'm glad I live in Ireland" post.

RDM_83 again · 23-07-2015 01:38PM

imokyrok wrote: »

The arrest is a problem. That excuse about the cig is just that - an excuse. And as it happens the Texas officials already conceded some days ago that the arrest was problematic and then placed Encinio on administrative leave as a result.

They are in damage limitation mode they must be extremely aware of the civil unrest thats happened before.
I don't think it was a good arrest btw I just think if it happened in ireland the uk or most of europe between two white people the initial result would have been the same

RDM_83 again · 23-07-2015 01:40PM

mikom wrote: »

Time for my weekly "I'm glad I live in Ireland" post.

Enough people have died in custody here, difference is its class not race

Magico Gonzalez · 23-07-2015 01:42PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Enough people have died in custody here, difference is its class not race

Really. How many? In the last year.

mikom · 23-07-2015 01:44PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Enough people have died in custody here, difference is its class not race

1 is too much.
I think I'll take my chances in Ireland though........ Thanks very much.

seamus · 23-07-2015 01:48PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ok as pointed out by other posters a cig is risk

So is a key or fingernails, or any one of a million innocuous objects - if the person is displaying threatening behaviour.

This woman was not at all threatening. Standoffish perhaps, but there was nothing in her actions or her tone that suggested any potential physical threat. His request was not reasonable by any measure.

In the most basic sense of the phrase, he started it. And she paid the price.

RDM_83 again · 23-07-2015 01:48PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Really. How many? In the last year.

Well we are a 100 times smaller, Brian Rossiter and Terrence Wheelock spring to mind

imokyrok · 23-07-2015 01:48PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Enough people have died in custody here, difference is its class not race

There is no comparison between the numbers who die on this side of the Atlantic in custody and the numbers in the US. In the same way there is no comparison between Incarceration rates. For example in a multiracial society like the UK 24 people died in custody in 2012. The number for the same year in the US was 3351 with only five times the population. Likewise the US locks up between 8 and 10 times the numbers we do in EU countries.

mikom · 23-07-2015 01:50PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Well we are a 100 times smaller, Brian Rossiter and Terrence Wheelock spring to mind

2002 and 2005!
Dig a bit deeper there.......

InTheTrees · 23-07-2015 02:01PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I also don't think he was wrong to ask her to put out the cigarette.

Well he was wrong.

She didnt have to put the cigarette out. There was no legal requirement for her to put the cig out.

The cop was on a power trip.

:mad:

InTheTrees · 23-07-2015 02:08PM

RDM_83 again wrote: »

In relation to stepping out of the car, I'm not sure of US law but is it an unlawful request, I'm guessing it would be, especially as she refused to comply with the order about the smoke (so technically dealing with her leaning over window etc exposes him to a health risk).
To me they both have attitude problems and to say the initial stages wouldn't go down like that hear is false, I am reminded of a video of the garda breaking a car window of some Shell to Sea protesters, unsurprisingly the AH consensus was their actions were ok.

The issue here isn't really the arrest, its what happens after, thats where the system has failed or been deliberately abused, thats where people should be fired or face charges for a complete abdication of their duty to care.

First... there is no requirement for her to put out the cigarette. The cop is wrong to demand it. He's provoking her, he knows she's rattled after being stopped for something so trivial.

Second. Why shouldn't she have an "attitude"? She's just been pulled over for a trivial offense and now the cop is making inappropriate demands.

And third, If she hadn't been arrested she wouldn't be dead now. So the arrest is extremely important.

.

suicide_circus · 23-07-2015 02:10PM

Not entirely sure we can blame the police for her suicide. They f*cked up, a lot, but this isn't murder.

scdublin · 23-07-2015 02:12PM

So disgusting...he was definitely power tripping. He didn't have the right to tell her to put her cigarette out and there was no need to ask her to step out of the car. In my opinion she did get a bit of an attitude which didn't help the situation but it was all entirely instigated by the cop. There's horrible suggestions that her mugshot picture was taken when she was already dead (twitter is obsessing over it anyway) and that it's all one huge cover up for her murder.

BattleCorp · 23-07-2015 02:13PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

First... there is no requirement for her to put out the cigarette. The cop is wrong to demand it. He's provoking her, he knows she's rattled after being stopped for something so trivial.

Second. Why shouldn't she have an "attitude"? She's just been pulled over for a trivial offense and now the cop is making inappropriate demands.

And third, If she hadn't been arrested she wouldn't be dead now. So the arrest is extremely important.

.

I'm not an expert on US law but if the cop perceived a danger from the cigarette, why wouldn't he ask her to put it out?

Sounds like a lawful request to me.

Same if she had a pipe wrench in her hand. He'd be within his rights to ask her to put that down too.

seamus · 23-07-2015 02:20PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Same if she had a pipe wrench in her hand. He'd be within his rights to ask her to put that down too.

And if your auntie was a man she'd be your uncle.

She didn't have a pipe wrench in her hand, she had a cigarette.

imokyrok · 23-07-2015 02:25PM

A transcript of the stop. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sandra-bland-arrest-transcript_55b03a88e4b0a9b94853b1f1

BattleCorp · 23-07-2015 02:26PM

seamus wrote: »

And if your auntie was a man she'd be your uncle.

She didn't have a pipe wrench in her hand, she had a cigarette.

Are you saying that a cigarette couldn't cause you harm if it was thrown at you?

I'm saying he might have perceived a danger from the cigarette. If he did, I think he might have been within his rights to ask her to put it out.

InTheTrees · 23-07-2015 02:28PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not an expert on US law but if the cop perceived a danger from the cigarette, why wouldn't he ask her to put it out?

Sounds like a lawful request to me.

Not sure what to say to that. It wasnt.

There was no legal requirement for her to put the cigarette out.

No doubt the cop in question is having to answer that very question in the investigation about why he demanded that she should.

:rolleyes:

seamus · 23-07-2015 02:30PM

A flicked cigarette would actually cause very little harm, if any. I've been burned by cigarettes and hit by flicked ones. It needs to be in contact with skin for a second or more to begin to hurt. A flicked cigarette will usually bounce away. Even if the lit ember does make contact, it will cause a very superficial burn, if anything. The threat posed by a lit cigarette does not justify assaulting someone and then pulling a tazer on them. That's what psychopaths do.

In any case, it's only reasonable to ask someone to put a cigarette out if you have good reason to believe they're going to use it as a weapon. This guy didn't.

It would be like a Garda stopping you in the street and then demanding you put your cigarette out "just in case". Nonsense.

Junkyard Tom · 23-07-2015 02:31PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not an expert on US law but if the cop perceived a danger from the cigarette

Listen to yourself. A cop armed with a gun standing up outside the vehicle feels at risk of a woman sitting down in her car holding a cigarette? So now anyone who is smoking is holding a 'weapon' if a cop is nearby?

What's disturbing about this is that the cop knew he was being filmed and still behaved how he did. I'd imagine not so long ago a prick like that would have dragged her out by the hair, put his knee on her back, cuffed her, thrown her into the car and then made up some story about her assaulting him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_JtFBnFS1Y

InTheTrees · 23-07-2015 02:34PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Are you saying that a cigarette couldn't cause you harm if it was thrown at you?

I'm saying he might have perceived a danger from the cigarette. If he did, I think he might have been within his rights to ask her to put it out.

You should read the transcript.

alchemist33 · 23-07-2015 02:36PM

As bad as this story is (at the very best, a woman who was no risk to society died after being arrested for a very minor traffic offence), the people fuelling the rumour about the mugshot being taken when she was dead need to cop on. This is making a bad situation potentially much worse.

The arrest and death of Sandra Bland.

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