The US Think They Can Extradite Gary Davis

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 07:23PM

end of the road wrote: »

he's not. he was in ireland so irish law counts

I will ask again, Does one know the full list of charges ? Or does one think it's one charge and that being a moderator of the SR ?

weldoninhio · 16-07-2015 07:28PM

johnc77 wrote: »

Because he has autism he should be prosecuted in Irish courts. Also the servers were not in the US. What gives the US the right to prosecute?

So equal rights for all unless your in trouble, then you pull out the autism card?? What would the headline be if Google Dublin told someone who had all the relevant qualifications that they would have gotten a job with them, but you have Autism.

hatrickpatrick · 16-07-2015 07:29PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So if the judge rules he is against the state ?

No. It's not the judge's fault if our laws allow a gap in our sovereignty.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I will ask again, Does one know the full list of charges ? Or does one think it's one charge and that being a moderator of the SR ?

it doesn't matter. If all of the charges relate to victimless cybercrime, then they should be tried in Ireland.

hatrickpatrick · 16-07-2015 07:30PM

dreamers75 wrote: »

SR facilitated illegal actions in the US, this chap helped he is an accomplice to the illegal acts.

So again if Boards facillitated a cartoon of the prophet - illegal in Iran - the Iranians would have a legitimate claim to extradition? And you'd be ok with that?

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 07:46PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No. It's not the judge's fault if our laws allow a gap in our sovereignty.

it doesn't matter. If all of the charges relate to victimless cybercrime, then they should be tried in Ireland.

How would one know that ?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

So again if Boards facillitated a cartoon of the prophet - illegal in Iran - the Iranians would have a legitimate claim to extradition? And you'd be ok with that?

Stop Strawmanning, This is to do with Illegal drugs. Drugs that are Illegal here also.

Means Of Escape · 16-07-2015 07:47PM

end of the road wrote: »

not more power to them at all. only those who are against the state would support this.

Horsesh1t his activities directly or indirectly probably have negatively affected many in this state and in the US
He probably would never have been nabbed if they didn't catch him out
We are probably 10 years behind the US regarding technological advancement
Can't understand why there is any support for this guy who deserves everything he gets.
He was probably laughing his ass off until the sh1t hit the fan stateside .

Means Of Escape · 16-07-2015 07:50PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I will ask again, Does one know the full list of charges ? Or does one think it's one charge and that being a moderator of the SR ?

I guarantee the list is comprehensive and lengthy a lot of federal charges are now intertwined with charges from other agencies .
Otherwise there would not be an extradition request.

end of the road · 16-07-2015 08:06PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How would one know that ?

Stop Strawmanning, This is to do with Illegal drugs. Drugs that are Illegal here also.

he's not Strawmanning, and there is no Strawmanning. his point is valid. i would like you to answer the question

ohnonotgmail · 16-07-2015 08:07PM

Egginacup wrote: »

And once again you demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about.

So are you actually going to justify this or have you decided to run away?

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 08:09PM

end of the road wrote: »

he's not Strawmanning, and there is no Strawmanning. his point is valid. i would like you to answer the question

If I have to explain illegal drug activity vs Someone mocking a sky wizard I don't think I will get anywhere.

end of the road · 16-07-2015 08:09PM

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Horsesh1t his activities directly or indirectly probably have negatively affected many in this state and in the US
He probably would never have been nabbed if they didn't catch him out
We are probably 10 years behind the US regarding technological advancement
Can't understand why there is any support for this guy who deserves everything he gets.
He was probably laughing his ass off until the sh1t hit the fan stateside .

i don't care. he was not in the US but ireland. so irish law is what counts. this isn't about him. this is about the US using the internet to remove and be a threat to countries national security, sovernty, and jurisdiction

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 08:11PM

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care. he was not in the US but ireland. so irish law is what counts. this isn't about him. this is about the US using the internet to remove and be a threat to countries national security, sovernty, and jurisdiction

Why are they going to the courts then ? Surely the world police would send over Seal team 6 if they wanted to bypass Irish jurisdiction.

weldoninhio · 16-07-2015 08:12PM

end of the road wrote: »

not cut and dry at all. he was only a mod, nothing more. therefore america making a claim is just that, a claim

"Only a mod"- don't the mods on Boards chat about the topics here?? Couldn't he have been sharing info, such as say, how to build a bomb from a pressure cooker, sold on chemicals, drugs?? Just because he was "only a mod" doesn't mean he had no involvement in whatever went on on SR. I'm sure an Irish judge will see all of the evidence and make a decision.

Means Of Escape · 16-07-2015 08:23PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No. It's not the judge's fault if our laws allow a gap in our sovereignty.

it doesn't matter. If all of the charges relate to victimless cybercrime, then they should be tried in Ireland.

Victimless cybercrime ?
ATM hacking and drug peddling victimless?

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 08:25PM

Means Of Escape wrote: »

Victimless cybercrime ?
ATM hacking and drug peddling victimless?

You are dealing with people that think it's only something related to the internet and not something that can effect Real life.

Means Of Escape · 16-07-2015 08:33PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

"Only a mod"- don't the mods on Boards chat about the topics here?? Couldn't he have been sharing info, such as say, how to build a bomb from a pressure cooker, sold on chemicals, drugs?? Just because he was "only a mod" doesn't mean he had no involvement in whatever went on on SR. I'm sure an Irish judge will see all of the evidence and make a decision.

"Only a mod" will be his first line of defence followed quickly by his condition .being "only a mod" has him complicit in the dealings of the site in this case all the charges mentioned to date.
He is culpable and that should be enough for the judge to stamp his extradition warrant
He's fighting it as he knows he will be convicted in the US whereas here he " may have a good chance " of getting a light sentence (in an open prison for his "victimless crime")
It will all come out in the wash in a day or two .

16-07-2015 08:34PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm sure an Irish judge will see all of the evidence and make a decision.

Precisely. The extradition request is being determined by the Courts here, which is the essence of sovereignty and jurisdiction referred to by end of the road. If Irish law dictates that he should be extradited, then he will be, in accordance with our law and extradition treaties entered into by our Government.

16-07-2015 08:38PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

What if you sent the drugs through the mail. They went into America and then onto their destination?

I thought we were talking about the internet stuff being relayed through America. Thus the "overhearing".

Even then, I walk up to the guards and say *"where can I post these drugs to America?", I still can't imagine being sent there.

They're like the only country that tries to extradite every online criminal. It's terrible. Let people be tried where they committed the crime or the next century will get nasty with America having all authority over everything, since everything will be online.

hatrickpatrick · 16-07-2015 09:11PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

How would one know that ?

One doesn't. Obviously if he's wanted for committing crimes actually on US soil, or which harmed US targets, then that's a different matter.

Stop Strawmanning, This is to do with Illegal drugs. Drugs that are Illegal here also.

Exactly. And he was here. He committed the crimes on Irish soil. The Americans do not have the right to prosecute a crime committed on Irish soil. Their courts have no jurisdiction on the island of Ireland, except in their embassy in Ballsbridge - which I'm assuming he wasn't sitting in when he was running the website.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-07-2015 10:20PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

One doesn't. Obviously if he's wanted for committing crimes actually on US soil, or which harmed US targets, then that's a different matter.

Exactly. And he was here. He committed the crimes on Irish soil. The Americans do not have the right to prosecute a crime committed on Irish soil. Their courts have no jurisdiction on the island of Ireland, except in their embassy in Ballsbridge - which I'm assuming he wasn't sitting in when he was running the website.

And further to that, this "long and comprehensive" list of charges and evidence that some posters are so sure of, doesn't include a single charge that is actually a crime here.

So he didn't commit any crimes on Irish soil, where he is and where the court is.

So it's not a strawman at all - this is essentially exactly mirroring the example that was thrown out of the blasphemy law in a foreign land and allowing that government to take the person from Ireland to over there to face their own local form of punishment.

America, Syria, Iran, whoever.. in my opinion this should not happen.

We'll all find out in a day or two I guess.

ohnonotgmail · 16-07-2015 10:33PM

nm wrote: »

And further to that, this "long and comprehensive" list of charges and evidence that some posters are so sure of, doesn't include a single charge that is actually a crime here.

So he didn't commit any crimes on Irish soil, where he is and where the court is.

So it's not a strawman at all - this is essentially exactly mirroring the example that was thrown out of the blasphemy law in a foreign land and allowing that government to take the person from Ireland to over there to face their own local form of punishment.

America, Syria, Iran, whoever.. in my opinion this should not happen.

We'll all find out in a day or two I guess.

Now i'm no laywer but

Gary Davis, (27), Johnstown Court, Kilpedder, Co Wicklow, is wanted for trial by the US authorities on charges of conspiracy to distribute narcotics, conspiracy to commit computer hacking and conspiracy to commit money laundering.

I'm reasonably sure some, if not all, of those charges are also crimes here

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/us-seeking-extradition-of-alleged-silk-road-website-administrator-1.2284945

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-07-2015 10:44PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Now i'm no laywer but

I'm reasonably sure some, if not all, of those charges are also crimes here

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/us-seeking-extradition-of-alleged-silk-road-website-administrator-1.2284945

You're right, you are no lawyer.

If the DPP had sufficient evidence of a crime committed here, they would be charging the person with that offense.

ohnonotgmail · 16-07-2015 10:47PM

nm wrote: »

You're right, you are no lawyer.

If the DPP had sufficient evidence of a crime committed here, from the yanks or any other source, they would be charging the person with that offense.

I was just responding to your point that he was not charged with anything that was an offence here. And quite clearly his charges are crimes here. So why not just admit you were wrong instead of deflecting?

16-07-2015 10:48PM

nm wrote: »

You're right, you are no lawyer.

If the DPP had sufficient evidence of a crime committed here, from the yanks or any other source, they would be charging the person with that offense.

Um.

The whole point about extradition is that the crime is not committed in the country which receives the request.

If he committed the crime here, obviously enough, we'd hardly be sending him abroad for trial.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 10:49PM

nm wrote: »

You're right, you are no lawyer.

If the DPP had sufficient evidence of a crime committed here, they would be charging the person with that offense.

Why take the time once they found out the Americans wanted to charge him ?

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-07-2015 10:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Um.

The whole point about extradition is that the crime is not committed in the country which receives the request.

If he committed the crime here, obviously enough, we'd hardly be sending him abroad for trial.

Um. He did "commit the crime" here. That is the point of he conversation in this thread.

So in your own opinion then, we are hardly sending him abroad for trial.

Only thing is a judge is considering that now.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-07-2015 10:53PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why take the time once they found out the Americans wanted to charge him ?

So your opinion is that the DPP is lazy, and therefore we should let the yanks take whoever they want over to their courts.

I wonder if this being put forward by the Attorney General. Surely it's a valid reason?

16-07-2015 10:53PM

nm wrote: »

Um. He did "commit the crime" here. That is the point of he conversation in this thread.

So in your own opinion then, we are hardly sending him abroad for trial.

Only thing is a judge is considering that now.

He committed a crime here?

I see you've moved to convicting him already. Sheesh, even in America at least he'll get a trial first. I hope you weren't the ones knocking the US legal system, seeing as you've dispensed with the need for any hearing at all.

darkpagandeath · 16-07-2015 10:54PM

nm wrote: »

So your opinion is that the DPP is lazy, and therefore we should let the yanks take whoever they want over to their courts.

I wonder if this being put forward by the Attorney General. Surely it's a valid reason?

No, I think they probably made a judgement call why charge him here if they want to charge him over there.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 16-07-2015 10:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He committed a crime here?

I see you've moved to convicting him already. Sheesh, even in America at least he'll get a trial first. I hope you weren't the ones knocking the US legal system, seeing as you've dispensed with the need for any hearing at all.

Did you miss the quotation marks?

The US Think They Can Extradite Gary Davis

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