Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.
Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/
Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.
Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/
Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
Comments
-
My advice paulers06 - fwiw
- is scale back the expectations on pace tomorrow and focus on effort levels instead. Increase the recovery too if you need. And if you don't feel great at any stage of warm up or during the session...bail.
If the cold goes down below your neck, stop running till it clears up. It's too easy for a cold to change into something more debilitating and persistent if it goes into the neck and/or chest. Keep us posted won't you?
Will do. Retired the runners Sun & Monday as was afraid it was travelling to my chest, feel much better today after sweating it out last night. I've 2 x 1600 @ 7.25 with 800 jogs tonight. 6 miles in total inc warm and cool. Gonna give it a lash on the treadmill and see how I get on0 -
Ugh, off to the Physio myself tonight, might see you there ZV Yoda, we go to the same practice!
Felt a bit of a twinge in the side of my lower leg, near the ankle, just as I was finishing my run last night. Pulled up and walked home. Felt fine to walk on this morning but sore to touch and after a mornings running around work it's now very sore to walk on.
Don't want to take any chances with the race on Sunday so will see what she says tonight.
Oh dear
Let us know, won't you? 0 -
-
-
It's hard to know how easy is easy iykwim but yes I could have chatted at that pace (maybe not very long sentences though)
For an easy run you should be able to set the world to rights. Maybe back off a little on the effort and see what pace that brings you in at. You may well be selling yourself short on the HM target but difficult to know with just this information.0 -
Advertisement
-
So my HM PB is 2:02:41 in the race series half last year.
I'd like to think I can beat 2 hours this year so that would be 9:09min/mile
Based on that I should be able to do the DCM in 4:30 which is 10:18min/mile
Based on that my last LSR was 14 miles with an average pace of 11:12min/mile
Did 5 miles just now. I couldn't bring myself to leave the Garmin off so I stuck in my pocket and just ran.
My average pace was 9:43 whereas if I was running with the watch I'd probably try to stay around my PMP.
What is that telling me?
Actual times are below if it matters:
9:53
9:58
9:44
9:17
9:40You may be selling yourself a bit short on your realistic goal for the half this year.
How did you feel on your run? Was the effort easy? Could you have carried out a conversation at this intensity?
Hi frash, it is possible to shift your goal posts slightly at this stage but I think you're better served by staying on the conservative side of paces for now (see Clearlier's post from Monday if in any doubt).It's hard to know how easy is easy iykwim but yes I could have chatted at that pace (maybe not very long sentences though)
The best way to reset your training paces is to go by a recent race and the more recent, the better. For marathon training paces, you'll have a better idea the closer the distance is to marathon distance. For a current snapshot of where you are this year, you may have to wait until the RocknRoll Half in August but there is plenty of time then to readjust. In the meantime, you can compare fitness levels between this year and last. How do you feel? Was your injury last year training-related and in what way?
It sounds like you did a classic moderate-to-hard tempo run last night, instead of an easy, comfortable pace where you can speak a full sentence
This tells me that you will benefit hugely from more garmin-free runs where you are reciting poetry/lyrics/maths formulae comfortably all the way round 
We can all run faster (indeed you have a loose case-by-case permission to run faster than PMP once a week
) but really, you want to stay specific to the distance you're training for with long and easy miles. (They won't all be 'comfortable' miles; towards the end of a lsr you should be feeling some sort of fatigue.)
With your injury history and recent niggle, I would seriously advise you to hold fire for now on upping the paces in training and focus on consolidating your aerobic/endurance base. Going even slightly slower than the generous training range (45-90 seconds slower than PMP) will not impact your ability to achieve your target, but going faster before you're ready will. As Clearlier advised, start a run off at the slower end of your range (what I call 'baby steps') and ease into it.
Good luck!0 -
-
Hi frash, it is possible to shift your goal posts slightly at this stage but I think you're better served by staying on the conservative side of paces for now (see Clearlier's post from Monday if in any doubt).
The best way to reset your training paces is to go by a recent race and the more recent, the better. For marathon training paces, you'll have a better idea the closer the distance is to marathon distance. For a current snapshot of where you are this year, you'll have to wait until the RocknRoll Half in August and plenty of time then to readjust.
It sounds like you did a classic moderate-to-hard tempo run last night. We can all run faster (indeed you have a loose case-by-case permission to run faster than PMP once a week ) but really, you want to stay specific to the distance you're training for with long and easy miles. (They won't all be 'comfortable' miles; towards the end of a lsr you should be feeling some sort of fatigue.)
With your injury history and recent niggle, I would seriously advise you to hold fire for now on upping the paces in training and focus on consolidating your aerobic/endurance base. Going even slightly slower than the generous training range (45-90 seconds slower than PMP) will not impact your ability to achieve your target, but going faster before you're ready will. As Clearlier advised, start off at the slower end of your range and ease into it. Good luck!
Think we posted at the same time there.
Thanks for that advice and yeah I'll go more conservatively for the next while & maybe re-assess after the RnR HM.
Thanks!0 -
-
Woo hoo! I got the all-clear from physio to ease back into training.
I need to keep doing the exercises for the next 4 weeks. Most importantly, to minimise the chance of re-occurrence, I need to vary my route & pace in future.
Happy days 0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Great to see everybody's reports and I'm really glad to see positive physio-reports all around!
I did the 6M, with 4M at PMP run today.
In order to not confuse the poor oxygen-starved brain during the run, I had converted it into km's:
> 1km w/u
> 7km PMP (5:35 min/km [8:59 min/mi], so anything between 5:30 and 5:40 would be OK).
> 2km c/d
I found myself in Dun Laoghaire for the afternoon and had thrown the running gear in the car, in case I had an hour to spare at the end of the day. Turned out I did and I found myself galloping up and down the West pier, and it's little brother, the West pier jetty.
Km-splits:
1: 6.00
2: 5:21
3: 5:37
4: 5:30
5: 5:31
6: 5:31
7: 5:34
8: 5:29
9: 6:04
.8: 6:00
Apart from the first km "at pace", the rest was spot on. I did notice that the faster km's required more effort compared to the easy or LSR pace (in terms of slightly more work for the lungs). But it was no bother at all to keep the pace, in fact I had to keep myself from going too fast. Running on the pier was great because of the slight breeze, it kept things nice and cool. The surface is quite uneven, tho - so it took a lot of concentration to run safely.
I bought myself a fancy "visor" to act as sweat-in-the-eyes prevention yoke, which worked a treat, also for the sun. The poor thing is probably designed to be worn around a fancy golf-course somewhere. Sorry about that, visor, but you're a runner's gadget now.
A funny moment: Upon seeing the 7-km split, I said "like an effing clock!" out loud without even thinking about it (nobody around thankfully, it was at the end of the jetty). Funny what those endorphins do to you.
Niggle-alert remains for the right calf, it remains very tight. I have a date with my foamroller later.0 -
Thanks jmcc99! Glad to hear everything is ticking along nicely. We were talking about food a few pages back but I don't remember that...there was a general thread on food/ideas etc a few weeks back. Maybe a search for that will throw up something?Am I imagining it or did someone post a great guide to nutrition on here a while back, where it set out a suggested menue for each day etc? I am sure I read it somewhere on here but cant find it now.
As for my training, it is going well, Im following a plan I devised myself from 3 previous marathons, races I want to do this summer and my work and family schedule. Glad to see everyone else is getting on well, shame that some have had to pull out, but having read their reasons it was definitely a wise and justified decision.
DG - You are doing a great job on here too. I am surprised you have time to do anything else considering the effort you are putting in here.
Well done diegoDid my near-nude run at lunchtime there (had my watch but I did not look at it till the end scouts honour).
Did a 3 mile easy run in 30:54 at an avg of 10:14min/mi, the splits were 10:45, 9:51, 10:05 which I was pretty happy with.
Felt quite warm today running down here and a bit tired after the trail run last night so no running till tomorrow evening now when I'll do the proper Wednesday run for this week off the boards plan. and also on following the mantra 'hard day followed by easy day'. Trail running is great but it can take it out of you - that hill sounded savage - so wise move.
YayGood news! It was a knot in my soleus so some dry needling and massage. She showed me how to roll it and stretch it properly.
I was supposed to do 3 miles tonight but that's on hold until Friday and if that goes okay then I can race on Sunday but at a slower pace than I planned.
So relieved it's not anything worse and it's a big wake up to stretch and slow down. Don't really know what to do with myself this evening now.... great news and thanks for letting us know!
Happy days indeed, excellent news! Makes sense to vary both, from a mental and physical perspective. No racing your runs tho, hear?!Woo hoo! I got the all-clear from physio to ease back into training.
I need to keep doing the exercises for the next 4 weeks. Most importantly, to minimise the chance of re-occurrence, I need to vary my route & pace in future.
Happy days
Nicely done chrislad, legs/shins all playing ball? Lovely consistency there with the paces, well done. Yeah, these pace runs are a funny one. You'll work your way up but at most stages you will say to yourself 'no way will I hold this for 26' :eek: This is normal, at all levels, so don't worry. You will get there, promiseJust did my pace run (slightly shorter than the planned 6 miles, as I went the wrong route!)
1 11:02 /mi w/u
2 10:04 /mi
3 10:22 /mi
4 10:09 /mi
5 10:09 /mi
0.8 11:41 /mi c/d
Happy enough. It was tough going for bits and pieces of it. Could I maintain it for 26 miles though? Not a chance!
Ah good. Don't stress about the pace on hills, use effort as your guide instead. Holding pace on a hill can use up more effort than it's worth.This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Toulouse, Yoda, really glad to hear the news! Yay!
Had my 5 mile hard run tonight and ended up running the last two miles a bit faster than I had planned. I tried to slow down, I honestly did!
Mile 1: 13:52
Mile 2: 13:50 (I was 'running up that hill' for this one. Feels good to know I held my pace!)
Mile 3: 13:46
Mile 4: 13:32
Mile 5: 13:32
Did some foam rolling tonight too as my left calf and hamstring felt tighter than usual, even after my cool down and stretches. Feeling ok now so hopefully that did me good!
Tomorrow...a 6 mile run...naked! As in...Garmin-less! Eeep! :P
Keep an eye on the calf and hamstring, as if you need telling and don't be afraid to shorten/quit the run tomorrow if either niggle a) doesn't go away as the run progresses or b) increases.
Above all, remember the golden rule 'keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy' so no pushing it tomorrow...whatsoever 0 -
6 miles with 4 at mp last night. Times were consistent on the 4 but approx 20-30 secs too fast each. I was trying to slow down...
3.11 miles recovery tonight. Again too fast. Approx 1 minute faster than Mondays easy run.
I did think I was getting on top of slowing down but looks like I'm back to square one. Old habits are creeping back in. When I try to slow down it feels like I'm about to stop so I speed up again. Really frustrating.
Not to worry Omeceron, it's not called *training* for nothing You'll get there, as chrislad said, going slow is something you need to practice! Being aware of it is the first step forward in the right direction 0 -
Nice run nop. Just curious about your splits...I'd tend to a longer warm up myself followed by a shorter cool down but that's a personal thing, I find I operate better on a longer warm up. I do shorten it tho in very warm weather. Do you find as a general rule of thumb that you need a shorter warm up?Great to see everybody's reports and I'm really glad to see positive physio-reports all around!
Km-splits:
1: 6.00
2: 5:21
3: 5:37
4: 5:30
5: 5:31
6: 5:31
7: 5:34
8: 5:29
9: 6:04
.8: 6:00
Apart from the first km "at pace", the rest was spot on. I did notice that the faster km's required more effort compared to the easy or LSR pace (in terms of slightly more work for the lungs). But it was no bother at all to keep the pace, in fact I had to keep myself from going too fast. Running on the pier was great because of the slight breeze, it kept things nice and cool. The surface is quite uneven, tho - so it took a lot of concentration to run safely.
Niggle-alert remains for the right calf, it remains very tight. I have a date with my foamroller later.
I'll be keeping an eye out for a tall Dutch-looking visor-wearing guy in my neck of the woods now
Hopefully that niggle stays just that!0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Nice run nop. Just curious about your splits...I'd tend to a longer warm up myself followed by a shorter cool down but that's a personal thing, I find I operate better on a longer warm up. I do shorten it tho in very warm weather. Do you find as a general rule of thumb that you need a shorter warm up?
I thought about this too - I have found that I tend to settle into a pace, and then find it hard to accelerate. More like a diesel. So I thought if I do a longer warm-up, it would be harder to get to PMP.
That said, I think a slightly longer warmup would have been better (it felt like I was hardly going when I had to accelerate), and the cool-down km's felt a bit "forced". So next time, I'm swapping them around.I'll be keeping an eye out for a tall Dutch-looking visor-wearing profusely-sweating guy in my neck of the woods now
Ha. I added to your description Do look out - would be great to say hello. 0 -
-
:eek: definitely do NOT kill yourself on a session like that. Long intervals with proportionately shorter recoveries - IMO - should be comfortable enough. It's a learning curve alright
OK, I'll bear that in mind next week. I was pushing myself on them alright, I haven't looked at the splits yet though.And don't forget, 'keep the hard days hard and the easy days easy'.....and always follow a hard day with an easy one. Skip the turnabouts if you can
Just catching up on the thread now, and you'll be glad to know I didn't do the turnabouts. Mostly because the 50 minutes easy was a struggle to finish. I was really weak and found it difficult and was counting the seconds until I had done my time, there was no point doing turnabouts like that.
I have had a right bollocking from my fwiend about not eating enough, on non running days I'm OK, but on running days, particuarly if I'm working the early shift, I'm struggling to eat enough food. Probably didn't help with today's run. Must try harder.0 -
-
-
-
Nicely done chrislad, legs/shins all playing ball? Lovely consistency there with the paces, well done. Yeah, these pace runs are a funny one. You'll work your way up but at most stages you will say to yourself 'no way will I hold this for 26' :eek: This is normal, at all levels, so don't worry. You will get there, promise
My left shin is giving me next to no pain. The right is fairly okay. I get the odd twinge but nothing that disrupts me. My main concern is keeping the legs stretched at the moment. The 3 mile I did yesterday was horrible, legs felt very tight. They felt much better tonight, and I plan to do my 3 mile recovery in the morning. It might be a bit too soon, but I've a sports massage booked for 12:30 tomorrow before I do the 13 miles at the weekend. Physio adjusted my insoles too, so they're feeling much more supportive for my shins, which is helping.
Completing the marathon without stopping is still my main goal. As you said, different goals are needs. C is to finish, B is 5 hours, A is 4:30. I'm beginning to see that, at least for the first one, completing it is going to be an achievement in itself!0 -
Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »Did 4 x 800m intervals yesterday, which I find tough enough. They sure get the sweat and heavy breathing going quickly! Take 90 seconds between each one to stretch and catch my breath.
Ran 7 miles in Clontarf today:
1: 7:47
2: 7:56
3: 7:51
4: 7:56
5: 7:54
6: 7:49
7: 7:30
Felt it was a nice pace, with nothing too stressful. My right hamstring is a bit tight at the moment so I am foam rolling it as well as my back, which was stiff during the half at the weekend. Also getting a sliothar into it too, which helps. Any other tips for working hamstrings? Thanks
Hi chilli, I'd be a little concerned that you've jumped in to intervals followed immediately by what was essentially a PMP/bordering on tempo run...in the week following a half...and with niggles :eek: This week would have been better spent easy running and allowing your body to adapt from the stresses of the HM. Recovery is where the gains are made from hard sessions and races.
Your PMP is ca. 8:00/min/mi (for an "ambitious" 3:30) so really, you did what should have been a recovery run at faster than marathon pace. Clearlier wrote a great synopsis on Monday about why we need to run slower to go faster. He also linked to an excellent article explaining in more detail. I'd really recommend reading both, really repay the reading
You didn't sound too happy with your time last weekend, your best is 1:37 from this year. Any idea what happened? We'd love to read a race report whenever you have time, they're great learning tools for all of us.
In May, you had been running just two days a week, supported by TRX and circuits, how many are you running now and do you think you might have upped the number too quickly?
For the hammie, I'll link to it later, but try AIS stretching. Others have been working with another version, Hartmann stretches. You can find a link to AIS in the original post or a quick google will get you there for both. Keep an eye 0 -
Did my 6 mile pace run this morning, happy enough with the splits.
Mile 1: 10:43
Mile 2: 10:16
Mile 3: 10:16
Mile 4: 10:12
Mile 5: 10:27
Mile 6: 10:09
Felt comfortable enough but like others have said no way could I do that for 26 miles! Yet!
But mile 6 was really 11:09 right?! :eek: 0 -
Advertisement
-
Hi chilli, I'd be a little concerned that you've jumped in to intervals followed immediately by what was essentially a PMP/bordering on tempo run...in the week following a half...and with niggles :eek: This week would have been better spent easy running and allowing your body to adapt from the stresses of the HM. Recovery is where the gains are made from hard sessions and races.
Your PMP is ca. 8:00/min/mi (for an "ambitious" 3:30) so really, you did what should have been a recovery run at faster than marathon pace. Clearlier wrote a great synopsis on Monday about why we need to run slower to go faster. He also linked to an excellent article explaining in more detail. I'd really recommend reading both, really repay the reading
You didn't sound too happy with your time last weekend, your best is 1:37 from this year. Any idea what happened? We'd love to read a race report whenever you have time, they're great learning tools for all of us.
In May, you had been running just two days a week, supported by TRX and circuits, how many are you running now and do you think you might have upped the number too quickly?
For the hammie, I'll link to it later, but try AIS stretching. Others have been working with another version, Hartmann stretches. You can find a link to AIS in the original post or a quick google will get you there for both. Keep an eye
Thanks dubgal. I read the piece the other day but then I just did what I normally do - go out and run normal pace! This planning and thinking my way through the sessions is new to me and I'm trying to adapt slowly!
I've dropped the trx and circuits and am now just running 4-5 times a week, following the plan. Maybe my body needs to get used to this and it's something I hadn't acknowledged.
I'll look at bringing in those stretches for the hamstrings. I'll try to do a short review of the half to see what feedback I can get. Thanks again!0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Advertisement