Hustveit Case.

Samaris · 15-07-2015 11:03AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rape-victim-niamhs-shock-as-ex-walks-free-im-left-reeling-and-my-parents-are-too-and-all-my-friends-who-were-there-to-support-me-31375084.html

I've thought a bit on how to phrase this. I can't make any rules, but I am asking if we can all keep it civil, and refrain from debate over whether she was raped. The courts have agreed that she was, and he has admitted it himself. Let's leave it at that, please.

So the line of debate I'm aiming to open is whether the sentence was lenient to the point of implying that what happened to her didn't matter, whether it is any deterrent to rapes, and what this means for people reporting rape in this country.

He admitted it, and without his confession, the case would not have gotten anywhere. Did he deserve such a reduced sentence based on that, particularly given that it was a repeated offence? It seems rather like throwing this woman under the bus to encourage other rapists to plead guilty in the future. Or is there an element of because she wasn't aware of it while it was happening, it was considered less serious?

It seems fairly appalling to me that he is being so publically supported by his company, and I reckon I wouldn't be too comfortable working for such a company. It smacks rather of the shaking-the-rapist's-hand disgusting business in Lisdowel a few years back.

Edit: I did ask for and get permission to reopen this topic, in case anyone's wondering

RichardCeann · 15-07-2015 11:14AM

I'm hoping for the DPP to appeal the sentence. It's extraordinarily lenient. The judges reasoning that the case wouldn't have been successful without the man's complete admission to raping her isn't exactly a great reason to pass a fully suspended sentence.

VisibleGorilla · 15-07-2015 11:19AM

Samaris wrote: »

It seems fairly appalling to me that he is being so publically supported by his company, and I reckon I wouldn't be too comfortable working for such a company. It smacks rather of the shaking-the-rapist's-hand disgusting business in Lisdowel a few years back.

On your last point here, how is he being supported? By not being fired? Should anyone convicted of a crime not work? And cost myself money by paying their dole?

Why would you not be comfortable? Is he going to rape you? What if he is very good at his job, an asset to the company, who has received his sentence by the courts, what is he meant to do?

Rosie Gardens · 15-07-2015 11:21AM

RichardCeann wrote: »

I'm hoping for the DPP to appeal the sentence. It's extraordinarily lenient. The judges reasoning that the case wouldn't have been successful without the man's complete admission to raping her isn't exactly a great reason to pass a fully suspended sentence.

Absolutely, it's a appalling sentence to hand down, and the company he works for welcomes a convicted rapist back into their midst. The mind absolutely boggles! The more I think about it, the more vexed I get.

Rosie Gardens · 15-07-2015 11:23AM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

On your last point here, how is he being supported? By not being fired? Should anyone convicted of a crime not work? And cost myself money by paying their dole?

Why would you not be comfortable? Is he going to rape you? What if he is very good at his job, an asset to the company, who has received his sentence by the courts, what is he meant to do?

If it was my company he'd not have a job. There's a lot I could possibly try to ignore, but this is probably one of the few things I couldn't overlook.

Samaris · 15-07-2015 11:30AM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

On your last point here, how is he being supported? By not being fired? Should anyone convicted of a crime not work? And cost myself money by paying their dole?

Why would you not be comfortable? Is he going to rape you? What if he is very good at his job, an asset to the company, who has received his sentence by the courts, what is he meant to do?

They have publicly given him their support and said that they hope he doesn't go to prison, as he is invaluable to the company. This rather seems to be going above and beyond, to be quite honest.

It doesn't matter whether I personally felt that he might rape me, it's not really about that. But it does give the message to people working there that the company itself doesn't feel repeated raping of his partner when she was unable to consent is ok. It doesn't exactly give one confidence as to what their methods of dealing with sexual harassment or anything of that ilk might be.

jaja321 · 15-07-2015 11:31AM

Also hoping the DPP appeal. I can't understand how admission of guilt would lead to a full suspended sentence, partial perhaps, but not full. Think it also gives out the totally wrong message to other victims/survivors too.

VisibleGorilla · 15-07-2015 11:34AM

Samaris wrote: »

They have publicly given him their support and said that they hope he doesn't go to prison, as he is invaluable to the company. This rather seems to be going above and beyond, to be quite honest.

It doesn't matter whether I personally felt that he might rape me, it's not really about that. But it does give the message to people working there that the company itself doesn't feel repeated raping of his partner when she was unable to consent is ok. It doesn't exactly give one confidence as to what their methods of dealing with sexual harassment or anything of that ilk might be.

This is a Norwegian company, Norwegian society has a much, much more progressive and effective way of dealing with issues such as crime and punishment.

This happened over 3 years ago, he has not offended since and is an asset to the company, I don't get your outrage.

Samaris · 15-07-2015 11:37AM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

This is a Norwegian company, Norwegian society has a much, much more progressive and effective way of dealing with issues such as crime and punishment.

This happened over 3 years ago, he has not offended since and is an asset to the company, I don't get your outrage.

It may have happened three years ago, but the case has only just been dealt with now.

And as for Norwegian society having a more progessive and effective way of dealing with crime and punishment...well, I'm not sure it's shown in this situation. Yes, it's not down to the company to punish him. It is down to the law, and unfortunately, the law here had basically hung this woman out to dry and let your man off. But the company could have refrained for the sake of decency and his victim's feelings from publicly dismissing "up to ten" rapes in supporting him openly and commenting that they hope he gets off without a prison sentence.

Rosie Gardens · 15-07-2015 11:38AM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

This is a Norwegian company, Norwegian society has a much, much more progressive and effective way of dealing with issues such as crime and punishment.

This happened over 3 years ago, he has not offended since and is an asset to the company, I don't get your outrage.

What the absolute fcuk??? Progressive??? Towards RAPE??? Are you serious? A 7 year suspended sentence isn't remotely progressive, infact, it's nothing short of a sentence that victim blames!!!

Jesus wept, I despair, I absolutely despair!!!!!!!!!!!

VisibleGorilla · 15-07-2015 11:43AM

Rosie Gardens wrote: »

What the absolute fcuk??? Progressive??? Towards RAPE??? Are you serious? A 7 year suspended sentence isn't remotely progressive, infact, it's nothing short of a sentence that victim blames!!!

Jesus wept, I despair, I absolutely despair!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus this post is stupid as hell, did I say that? No.

Progressive towards rehabilitation and integration.

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-07-2015 11:46AM

Who did he work for?

Samaris · 15-07-2015 11:48AM

Don't know the company, but he's an event organiser, apparently.

Rosie Gardens · 15-07-2015 11:50AM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

Jesus this post is stupid as hell, did I say that? No.

Progressive towards rehabilitation and integration.

Oh for gods sake, you've made it perfectly clear you don't have an issue with a rape he has admitted to committing because it was 3 years ago.

You can't see the connection between his rubbish sentence and our outrage. Stupid post indeed!!!!!

QuinDixie · 15-07-2015 12:12PM

I am confused, how did he rape her while she slept.

Menas · 15-07-2015 12:12PM

QuinDixie wrote: »

I am confused, how did he rape her while she slept.

Ah here.....birds and bees.

QuinDixie · 15-07-2015 12:14PM

Menas wrote: »

Ah here.....birds and bees.

what are you inferring, was he drugging her

wp_rathead · 15-07-2015 12:14PM

Rosie Gardens wrote: »

Oh for gods sake, you've made it perfectly clear you don't have an issue with a rape he has admitted to committing because it was 3 years ago.

You can't see the connection between his rubbish sentence and our outrage. Stupid post indeed!!!!!

Ahh fairly sure the poster meant he doesn't get the outrage in relation to him keeping his job..

Tombi! · 15-07-2015 12:15PM

QuinDixie wrote: »

I am confused, how did he rape her while she slept.

QuinDixie wrote: »

what are you inferring, was he drugging her

Mod: read the article in the first post. She was raped; under the influence of medication and raped also. He has admitted to doing this.

If you post again while questioning this, cads or bans can be handed out.

Samaris · 15-07-2015 12:16PM

QuinDixie wrote: »

what are you inferring, was he drugging her

She was taking medication that meant she was sleeping very heavily, basically conked out. He took advantage of that "somewhere under" ten times (in terms of full rape) by his own admitting, and an uncounted number of times in terms of sexual assault.

brevity · 15-07-2015 12:21PM

A lot of people texted into the Anton Savage show this morning with similar stories.

Its astonishing that he was let go. I cannot quite wrap my head around it. There really needs to be a clear explanation for things like this..

What kind of message does this send out? That rape is OK if its not violent?

QuinDixie · 15-07-2015 12:22PM

Samaris wrote: »

She was taking medication that meant she was sleeping very heavily, basically conked out. He took advantage of that "somewhere under" ten times (in terms of full rape) by his own admitting, and an uncounted number of times in terms of sexual assault.

I have read a few articles about it and have never seen the mention of medication. That was why I was asking.

mailforkev · 15-07-2015 12:25PM

I don't know what his employer has to do with anything, their opinion is their own business. Nothing to do with the rest of us.

But how he didn't get any length of custodial sentence is beyond me.

VisibleGorilla · 15-07-2015 12:25PM

brevity wrote: »

What kind of message does this send out? That rape is OK if its not violent?

It doesn't really send out any message.

You really think someone will think to themselves "Oh look at that chap with his 7 year suspended sentence and sex offender list, I'll get my rape hat on so!"

Cop on to yourself, punishment is no deterrence. If someone is going to rape, they will rape no matter what. Criminals do not believe they will be caught thus the idea of whatever punishment they could receive means nothing.

suicide_circus · 15-07-2015 12:30PM

Dont really understand why the full sentence was suspended. But it is an interesting case in a way. If a tree falls in a forest with no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound? Had this guy said nothing, the victim would have been none the wiser and may not have the mental and physical ailments she now suffers. You could almost say that the admission compounds his crime in a weird way.

brevity · 15-07-2015 12:32PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

It doesn't really send out any message.

You really think someone will think to themselves "Oh look at that chap with his 7 year suspended sentence and sex offender list, I'll get my rape hat on so!"

Cop on to yourself, punishment is no deterrence. If someone is going to rape, they will rape no matter what. Criminals do not believe they will be caught thus the idea of whatever punishment they could receive means nothing.

No, it means that people who are raped might not see the point of reporting the crime.

Samaris · 15-07-2015 12:34PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

It doesn't really send out any message.

You really think someone will think to themselves "Oh look at that chap with his 7 year suspended sentence and sex offender list, I'll get my rape hat on so!"

Cop on to yourself, punishment is no deterrence. If someone is going to rape, they will rape no matter what. Criminals do not believe they will be caught thus the idea of whatever punishment they could receive means nothing.

So should rape victims just shrug passively? It's not just for the deterrence, it's for the sake of the victim and to prevent that person from doing it again to someone else.

But it DOES send a message that it doesn't "matter" so much if they rape someone, it's not a "serious" offence. Particularly if it's non-violent. You still hear people using the phrase "real rape". Which is disgraceful.

15-07-2015 12:41PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Had this guy said nothing, the victim would have been none the wiser and may not have the mental and physical ailments she now suffers. You could almost say that the admission compounds his crime in a weird way.

I listened to part of a radio interview with the victim yesterday, how she realised it was happening at all was because she woke one morning with no pyjama bottoms on and covered in semen.

She didn't just find out because he told her.

Tombi! · 15-07-2015 12:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I listened to part of a radio interview with the victim yesterday, how she realised it was happening at all was because she woke one morning with no pyjama bottoms on and covered in semen.

She didn't just find out because he told her.

...
Wow. I really, really wish I didn't know that.
How does this guy get a suspended sentence after all this and admiting to the damn thing

suicide_circus · 15-07-2015 12:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I listened to part of a radio interview with the victim yesterday, how she realised it was happening at all was because she woke one morning with no pyjama bottoms on and covered in semen.

She didn't just find out because he told her.

According to the article the relationship continued after that happened and the scale of it only became known via his confession. Indeed the judge said the entire case was based on said confession

Saipanne · 15-07-2015 12:51PM

Judges in this country love rapists.

Hustveit Case.

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