Cruel reality of life for Gardai

Potential-Monke · 11-07-2015 01:17PM

kerry4sam wrote: »

You've made it known what you do for a living. Your posts scream the same, are you tucked up in the PR-office by any chance? I'd be with the Government with the 2-finger-salute to our Irish Police Force forming a Union. Heavens Above, having them call the shots, get outta town!

The rule is relatively new, as in it came in a couple of years ago. So even if i previously stated what i do, being a Garda now precludes you from identifying as one. And no, not PR, just selective, because one has to be now.

So you're against AGS setting up a Union, which every other worker in Ireland can do. You don't believe that AGS should be represented?

darkpagandeath wrote: »

In my limited dealings they all seemed to be kitted out correctly stab vests and decent cars.

You got it with limited. It may look good, but it's not useful. A stab vest which is cumbersome, doesn't allow breathing, heavy, and really not fit for purose. Driving around in Hyundai i30's which have just stickers and lights put on them, no actual operational modifications. (Hint: there useless) A baton and pepper spray to defend against knives and sometimes firearms. No, AGS might look like they're kitted out properly, but they are far from it.

Yes again, as with all Garda related threads, you have experts in Criminal Law and experts in conflict resolution jumping in thinking they know best. No one except a Garda knows what happens in the job. You can read all the legislation you want, but you cannot put into writing how to deal with every single situation, as every situation is completely different. You can't plan violent people. You can't preempt when someone is going to kick off. You've no way of knowing what that person is carrying. You can't chase cars with criminals who have committed crime, because if they crash and hurt themselves or someone else, it's the Gardais fault for following them. You can't get back to injured parties in a timely manner due to the amount of work needed to do, the constantly changing shifts which the public just don't understand (they work mostly evenings/nights, can't be calling to people at 4am for a statement!). Even Reserves don't get the full picture. They see the action (some of it), but they don't see the reams of paper which follows. They don't experience having to try and do files inbetween calls because they just don't get the time to do it anymore. And they don't see management creating all these new ways to make themselves look good, but not caring how it's negatively affecting operational policing.

And again, like all Garda threads, the side defending might as well be hopping their heads off a wall, because the anti side just don't want to listen, and think they know best.

darkpagandeath · 11-07-2015 01:18PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

Er is that the female "protester " that jumped in front of a moving car ?

every one screaming about the horrible thump she got off the iron bollard ?

except it turned out that the horrible thump was some gardas knee as he protected the woman from injuring her self ?

European protests tend to be professionals or students ie truckers or farmers protecting thier livelihoods not what we have

Did the car run her down and knock her towards the bollard ?

darkpagandeath · 11-07-2015 01:20PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

The rule is relatively new, as in it came in a couple of years ago. So even if i previously stated what i do, being a Garda now precludes you from identifying as one. And no, not PR, just selective, because one has to be now.

So you're against AGS setting up a Union, which every other worker in Ireland can do. You don't believe that AGS should be represented?

You got it with limited. It may look good, but it's not useful. A stab vest which is cumbersome, doesn't allow breathing, heavy, and really not fit for purose. Driving around in Hyundai i30's which have just stickers and lights put on them, no actual operational modifications. (Hint: there useless) A baton and pepper spray to defend against knives and sometimes firearms. No, AGS might look like they're kitted out properly, but they are far from it.

What would you like ? state of the art swat gear and firearms ? Stab vests and bullet resistant ones are not designed to be comfortable or they would be useless.

Little CuChulainn · 11-07-2015 01:22PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What would you like ? state of the art swat gear and firearms ? Stab vests and bullet resistant ones are not designed to be comfortable or they would be useless.

There are plenty of effective stab vests and bullet resistant ones that are designed to be comfortable and useful. You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

darkpagandeath · 11-07-2015 01:32PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

There are plenty of effective stab vests and bullet resistant ones that are designed to be comfortable and useful. You haven't a notion what you are talking about.

Really ? the more you take away to relive movement the more you expose areas to attack. I.e under the arms sides Gaps in protection to free up movement. So a comfortable vest can be a bad move and lead to injury.

Little CuChulainn · 11-07-2015 01:35PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really ? the more you take away to relive movement the more you expose areas to attack. I.e under the shoulders sides Gaps in protection to free up movement. So a comfortable vest can be a bad move and lead to injury.

If the current ones were efficiently designed you might have a point, but they aren't. They are bullet proof vest covers with some stab proof plates shoved into them. They aren't fitted right to different body types, not even male and female.

Potential-Monke · 11-07-2015 01:36PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Really ? the more you take away to relive movement the more you expose areas to attack. I.e under the arms sides Gaps in protection to free up movement. So a comfortable vest can be a bad move and lead to injury.

Come off it. Have a look at the Garda one, and then the MET one. MET one covers the same, is zip up (Garda one is velcro ffs), and has operational pockets to keep stuff off the utility belt (belt can lead to back problems).

darkpagandeath · 11-07-2015 01:43PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Come off it. Have a look at the Garda one, and then the MET one. MET one covers the same, is zip up (Garda one is velcro ffs), and has operational pockets to keep stuff off the utility belt (belt can lead to back problems).

Well I'm not gong to argue the point, Every Garda I have dealt with when needed was wearing a fitted stab vest that looked comfortable. They even took a note book out of the vest. Maybe I'm in an area where they are funded better.

Potential-Monke · 11-07-2015 01:46PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well I'm not gong to argue the point, Every Garda I have dealt with when needed was wearing a fitted stab vest that looked comfortable. They even took a note book out of the vest. Maybe I'm in an area where they are funded better.

And therein lies the problem. You don't wear it. It may look good, but trust me, it's not. Security on the luas have better ones!

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-07-2015 01:50PM

Let's look at other countries, shall we?
In Germany a Polizist can expect to earn €27336 per year, that is before taxes.
I hope no-one here would suggest German cops have it soft in comparison to their Irish colleagues.
Here are some (badly written) international comparisons.
http://www.ilgiornaledellazio.it/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=540:police-wages-in-europe-and-rest-of-the-world&Itemid=745

I think Irish cops are not doing too badly when compared to France and Germany or even the UK.
But, and I have to stress this again and again:
What they earn is not sleep in your car and live of cereal money.
That is the crux of the argument, there simply is no counterargument and THAT is why that article is complete and utter horsesh*t.
It's goes right up there with Padraig Flynn whinging about how hard it is to maintain one's champagne and caviar lifestyle on the paltry sum of £140000.
Of course it is possible to be poor on €40k, but that's down to money mismanagement, €40k is NOT a poverty salary. Anyone who suggests otherwise, you must be a very special little snowflake.

TL/DR:
If you can't manage on a good salary, you are not managing your outgoings right!

John_Rambo · 11-07-2015 03:45PM

I know a few Gardai. They're jobs aren't very taxing, they freely admit to "doing as little as possible" in work and they spend a lot of time doing personal stuff whilst on duty. Every one of them is an amateur landlord. There's a common theme or culture of multiple property ownership, terrible financial decisions and living beyond their means amongst them.

Pocoyo · 11-07-2015 03:56PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Come off it. Have a look at the Garda one, and then the MET one. MET one covers the same, is zip up (Garda one is velcro ffs), and has operational pockets to keep stuff off the utility belt (belt can lead to back problems).

:mad: I smell a few bob coming the gardai's way...PATHETIC!!

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-07-2015 04:50PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know a few Gardai. They're jobs aren't very taxing, they freely admit to "doing as little as possible" in work and they spend a lot of time doing personal stuff whilst on duty. Every one of them is an amateur landlord. There's a common theme or culture of multiple property ownership, terrible financial decisions and living beyond their means amongst them.

What? I thought it was an endless hell of armed gangs, violent protests, a constant stream of scum of the Earth, all lined up with lethal weapons to beat, stab, shoot and spit blood at the Gardai in a never-ending blood orgy and once they have dodged death 27 times on one of their 72 hour shifts, had to go eat corn flakes in their car till the next shift starts at 4 am, 30 minutes before they came home and still had to catch up on three year's worth of paperwork?
Though I have to say that I never got that impression when I was fixing office equipment in a few Garda barracks. At the time I thought I have seen more exiting insurance companies... (Though Bord Na gGon was my favourite, there are livelier tombs. The main challenge there is not to die of boredom)

il gatto · 11-07-2015 05:13PM

Why do Gardai think nobody can know what they do? There's 12,000 guards. We all know a few. My cousin is one. And tbh my other cousin in the Met has a much, much tougher job. I've dealt with them on a professional basis many times. Most of them are dead on by the way. No personal dislike.
I'm sure a few areas are not nice places to work but the majority of guards are in areas where crime and anti social behaviour is pretty minor. A lot of stations the biscuit run is the most excitement in an evening.
Why don't the guards who work in Darndale and Moyross get paid more and guards in Foxrock and Adare get a bit less? Because it's a smokescreen. It's about more for everyone.
And as much as the guards would like this to be all about the horrors of policing the feral irish, it's not. It's about why someone can't eat proper food on €40,000 a year. And not knowing how new recruits will survive, despite getting average annual earnings (as per CSO).
So I suppose my point is, cry me a f@cking river.

Rothmans · 11-07-2015 07:04PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

What? I thought it was an endless hell of armed gangs, violent protests, a constant stream of scum of the Earth, all lined up with lethal weapons to beat, stab, shoot and spit blood at the Gardai in a never-ending blood orgy and once they have dodged death 27 times on one of their 72 hour shifts, had to go eat corn flakes in their car till the next shift starts at 4 am, 30 minutes before they came home and still had to catch up on three year's worth of paperwork?
Though I have to say that I never got that impression when I was fixing office equipment in a few Garda barracks. At the time I thought I have seen more exiting insurance companies... (Though Bord Na gGon was my favourite, there are livelier tombs. The main challenge there is not to die of boredom)

il gatto wrote: »

Why do Gardai think nobody can know what they do? There's 12,000 guards. We all know a few. My cousin is one. And tbh my other cousin in the Met has a much, much tougher job. I've dealt with them on a professional basis many times. Most of them are dead on by the way. No personal dislike.
I'm sure a few areas are not nice places to work but the majority of guards are in areas where crime and anti social behaviour is pretty minor. A lot of stations the biscuit run is the most excitement in an evening.
Why don't the guards who work in Darndale and Moyross get paid more and guards in Foxrock and Adare get a bit less? Because it's a smokescreen. It's about more for everyone.
And as much as the guards would like this to be all about the horrors of policing the feral irish, it's not. It's about why someone can't eat proper food on €40,000 a year. And not knowing how new recruits will survive, despite getting average annual earnings (as per CSO).
So I suppose my point is, cry me a f@cking river.

I've seen some fairly bad Garda-bashing in After Hours before, but yours has been some of the most disparaging and disingenuous. I won't comment any further other than to clarify that recruits do not start on €26,000 + €4,200 rent allowance as you've stated previously, but €23,171, no rent allowance
( http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-rent-allowance-1637335-Aug2014/ ), which is considerably less than the average industrial wage of about €43,000 ( http://www.pbrecruitment.ie/tip.php?id=18&page=1 ). Admittedly this figure is from 2012, but I can't imagine it has gotten worse since the midst of the recession. Now you've mentioned average wage, I'm not sure this is exactly fair as it can include part-time work, which isn't a realistic comparison when comparing it against a full-time career.

darkpagandeath · 11-07-2015 07:31PM

Rothmans wrote: »

I've seen some fairly bad Garda-bashing in After Hours before, but yours has been some of the most disparaging and disingenuous. I won't comment any further other than to clarify that recruits do not start on €26,000 + €4,200 rent allowance as you've stated previously, but €23,171, no rent allowance
( http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-rent-allowance-1637335-Aug2014/ ), which is considerably less than the average industrial wage of about €43,000 ( http://www.pbrecruitment.ie/tip.php?id=18&page=1 ). Admittedly this figure is from 2012, but I can't imagine it has gotten worse since the midst of the recession. Now you've mentioned average wage, I'm not sure this is exactly fair as it can include part-time work, which isn't a realistic comparison when comparing it against a full-time career.

23k for starting a job is good money.

Rothmans · 11-07-2015 07:40PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

23k for starting a job is good money.

I only posted to clear up certain false and disingenuous posts by certain anti-Garda posters regarding pay. That's all. No interest in getting involved in the debate tbh I can see this thread going around in circles. Good luck to ya:)

Potential-Monke · 11-07-2015 09:06PM

il gatto wrote: »

Why do Gardai think nobody can know what they do? There's 12,000 guards. We all know a few. My cousin is one. And tbh my other cousin in the Met has a much, much tougher job. I've dealt with them on a professional basis many times. Most of them are dead on by the way. No personal dislike.

The Gardai would love everyone to know what's going on. It's management that are restricting that, with social media policies that basically prohibit any members from talking about the job on social media. And i understand why. If someone was to identify themselves as a Garda and made a comment, it's taken as a view of AGS as an organisation, not as an individual person. It's also a security risk. We saw with the water protestors posting pictures of Gardai online and trying to find out who they were and where they live. That's just water protestors. Think about the major criminal gangs who would (and do) target individual Gardai with threats. And yes, the MET probably has a much tougher job, but at least they have the proper equipment, instead of just an ASP, pepper spray and Hyundai cars...

il gatto wrote: »

I'm sure a few areas are not nice places to work but the majority of guards are in areas where crime and anti social behaviour is pretty minor. A lot of stations the biscuit run is the most excitement in an evening.

The majority of Guards would be in city stations, where crime and anti social behavior is rife. Add to that that there is less time to follow up on investigations, an increased work load due to retirements, resignations and dismissals, and ever increasing paper work due to new processes to make the higher ups look good. Ask any Garda, the paper is killing the job. The reluctance to accept and implement technology is shocking (still writing interviews ffs!!!). And yes, there are quiet stations, but those stations cover a huge area. Would people prefer if we removed the members from the quiet stations and put them into the busy ones, thus leading country towns and villages wide open to crime.

il gatto wrote: »

Why don't the guards who work in Darndale and Moyross get paid more and guards in Foxrock and Adare get a bit less? Because it's a smokescreen. It's about more for everyone.

I'm pretty sure the member in the busy stations would be more than happy to get more money than those in quieter stations. I know the MET get £6000 a year extra for having to work in London...

Look, people are concentrating on the wages. Yes, they're high in comparison to other jobs, but you cannot compare the work of Gardai to any other job in Ireland. And talk all ye want about other countries, but every country is different.

The problem with the money is that the wages were slashed savagely. Most are down €150+ a week. This, after getting used to living on and having that €150. Yes, they probably got stung with mortgages and the recession. yes, they probably spent most of what they earned, but quite a few had savings also. Then you had the majority of new members coming out of Templemore with massive loans, because the Garda CU's were handing them out like candy, with no regard to financial circumstances, relying soley on the fact that once they passed out and started earning a proper wage, only for the Cu's to clamp down and take most of it. They were (mostly) fine pre-recession, but a lot were also relying on overtime, which is all but gone.

And that's not specific to the Gardai. I'd dare say the majority of Irish people who were getting savage wages pre-recession, and they all got houses too big with massive mortgages, massive loans, 3+ holidays a year, fancy cars, etc. People are only targeting the Gardai because they're an easy target with a perceived "job for life" (it's not. It may be harder to get fired from, but it does happen).

Anyway, i'm leaving this now, as Rothmans is saying, this is already gone the way of every Garda bashing thread.

jetsonx · 11-07-2015 09:07PM

How comes anytime I look into a Gardai staff car park - there is always a fine collection newish Audis, VWs and other premium marques. Can anyone explain this?

mrsoundie · 11-07-2015 09:09PM

jetsonx wrote: »

How comes anytime I look into a Gardai staff car park - there is always a fine collection newish Audis, VWs and other premium marques. Can anyone explain this?

Yes and lots of lovely loans on them as well.

Dan_Solo · 11-07-2015 09:11PM

mrsoundie wrote: »

Yes and lots of lovely loans on them as well.

That's a bit silly isn't it, taking out a loan on a new Audi when you can't afford to feed your children?
Priorities, eh?

mrsoundie · 11-07-2015 09:18PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That's a bit silly isn't it, taking out a loan on a new Audi when you can't afford to feed your children?
Priorities, eh?

A majority of these loans were taken out before it all went to hell in a hand basket. At the time it made sense.

mynamejeff · 11-07-2015 09:19PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That's a bit silly isn't it, taking out a loan on a new Audi when you can't afford to feed your children?
Priorities, eh?

because every single garda is represented in tolatly by the half a article in a tabloid newspaper that you managed to read .

make an effort will ya ffs

Dan_Solo · 11-07-2015 09:37PM

mrsoundie wrote: »

A majority of these loans were taken out before it all went to hell in a hand basket. At the time it made sense.

That would mean they weren't newish cars in the first place. Bubble burst a good few years back ya know.

Dan_Solo · 11-07-2015 09:41PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

because every single garda is represented in tolatly by the half a article in a tabloid newspaper that you managed to read .

make an effort will ya ffs

A bit like the one Garda who you managed to find who was "smashed in the face" (in non-Templemore speak that's "hit in the head, was well enough to finish her shift") in the tabloids yerself when you wanted to show us just how vicious LOL those water protestors assassins are?
Wow, you're good at this walking into stuff business aren't you?
I can see you're making an effort... at shooting yourself in the foot!

Pocoyo · 11-07-2015 09:42PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

That would mean they weren't newish cars in the first place. Bubble burst a good few years back ya know.

They are living beyond their means,I know one thing they dont deserve another cent,Not in these times of austerity or any time for that matter they are well looked after in retirement.

Dan_Solo · 11-07-2015 09:47PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

People are only targeting the Gardai because they're an easy target with a perceived "job for life" (it's not. It may be harder to get fired from, but it does happen).

A Garda would have to napalm strike an orphanage on Christmas morning to get fired. Why are you even making a point of this? Why should I have any sympathy anyway for a thug/grabber Garda who gets fired for breaking the law they're supposed to be upholding? Like, boo hoo? Who doesn't get fired for criminal activity at work?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Anyway, i'm leaving this now, as Rothmans is saying, this is already gone the way of every Garda bashing thread.

It actually started off as a pro-Garda thread (it's in the title...) but yeah, obvious cops and their mates being the only ones sticking up for cops... typical stuff indeed.

mynamejeff · 11-07-2015 09:50PM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

A bit like the one Garda who you managed to find who was "smashed in the face" (in non-Templemore speak that's "hit in the head, was well enough to finish her shift") in the tabloids yerself when you wanted to show us just how vicious LOL those water protestors assassins are?
Wow, you're good at this walking into stuff business aren't you?
I can see you're making an effort... at shooting yourself in the foot!

Aw right dan she jumped infront of it and if she didnt the skanky piggy deserved it right ? standing around there with her fancy hat ! how dare she :pac:

the ambulance staff were just too busy with this lad

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/real-life/video-ronaldo-would-be-proud-as-water-protester-takes-a-tumble-313504.html

dr.fuzzenstein · 11-07-2015 09:51PM

Rothmans wrote: »

I've seen some fairly bad Garda-bashing in After Hours before, but yours has been some of the most disparaging and disingenuous. I won't comment any further other than to clarify that recruits do not start on €26,000 + €4,200 rent allowance as you've stated previously, but €23,171, no rent allowance
( http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-rent-allowance-1637335-Aug2014/ ), which is considerably less than the average industrial wage of about €43,000 ( http://www.pbrecruitment.ie/tip.php?id=18&page=1 ). Admittedly this figure is from 2012, but I can't imagine it has gotten worse since the midst of the recession. Now you've mentioned average wage, I'm not sure this is exactly fair as it can include part-time work, which isn't a realistic comparison when comparing it against a full-time career.

The average wage is 43000? Really? In what reality?

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/

50% of individuals have a gross annual income of less than €18,000.
On average individuals in the Republic of Ireland have an annual gross income of €26,800.
1.5 million individuals (40%) have a gross income between €10,000 and €30,000 per annum

And I keep saying it:
40k is NOT corn flake money. There is NO discussing that fact.

Dan_Solo · 11-07-2015 09:54PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

Aw right dan she jumped infront of it and if she didnt the skanky piggy deserved it right ? standing around there with her fancy hat ! how dare she :pac:

the ambulance staff were just too busy with this lad

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examviral/real-life/video-ronaldo-would-be-proud-as-water-protester-takes-a-tumble-313504.html

So? You lied and said she was "smashed in the face" (she was hit in the head and well enough to finish her shift) and used it as an example of how supposedly vicious water protestors are. I can't help it if the best you have to come back with is some random article about a protestor falling over. Says it all really.
BTW please have some respect of our Gardaí and stop calling them "skanky piggies". It's pretty disgusting of you to think of them like that.

Cruel reality of life for Gardai

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