Student set alight in a nightclub, guy who did it gets 5-year sentence

Zhane · 09-07-2015 08:02PM

Roquentin wrote: »

think of the psychology of it. take the decision process that led up to the accident. its halloween, people are behaving in an anti social factor. the defendant sees someone with a costume and thinks in the spirit of the occassion " wouldnt it be funny to burn a bit of his costume"

he says burn because history has thought him that when you put a lighter flame to jumper, to a piece of cardboard, to a piece of rubbish, it does not catch fire or combust (burst into flame) what happens and everyone has done this at some point in their lives, it burns. if i light a cigarette, the whole cigarette doesnt suddenly engulf in flames in seconds. What happens is it burns, because the fag is not a combustible material.

Now based on that assumption that the defendant made, he said to himself internally "if i do that, there will be no danger." he said there would be no danger because life had told him so previously when he put a flame to clothing or piece of plastic. A) they dont catch flame and you have to keep the flame their to make sure they burn.

So he thought, i will just leave the lighter there for one or two seconds and see the smoke and the charred material and it will be funny. but he made the wrong assumptions. the material was highly flammable and caught fire in mille-seconds.

i remember a few years ago in limerick, children were in a car and set on fire. that was deliberate. the scumbags who did that wanted to set them on fire. this is different. the defendant made the assumption (instantaneously it must be said and without thought) the action would only result in a minor burn to the victims costume. But he made the wrong assumption.

I'm actually astounded how you don't understand how dangerous fire is and how you're making excuses for this guy.

Maybe it was drilled into me into an early age, or maybe I've bad memories of how a girl in my class died because her dress caught fire from her fireplace. You don't mess with it.

Zhane · 09-07-2015 08:04PM

Roquentin wrote: »

if i put a lighter to my jumper it will burn a big black hole in it. it will not combust. in order to get my jumper in flames i have to either throw it into a fire or hold the lighter there for a long period until it catches (if it does)

there is no way they would sell clothes that are flammable.

Am actually not going to comment further to you, because I actually think your trolling.

FalconGirl · 09-07-2015 08:05PM

He should have got 8-10 years. His actions afterwards the incident were disgusting. No remorse shown.

gctest50 · 09-07-2015 08:10PM

Zhane wrote: »

......
Maybe it was drilled into me into an early age, or maybe I've bad memories of how a girl in my class died because her dress caught fire from her fireplace. You don't mess with it.

and forks are highly dangerous too - luckily you can make them safe with easily available items

Originally Posted by Roquentin
if i put a lighter to my jumper it will burn a big black hole in it. it will not combust. in order to get my jumper in flames i have to either throw it into a fire or hold the lighter there for a long period until it catches (if it does)

there is no way they would sell clothes that are flammable.

i think its illegal now to sell very flammable clothes ?

Mr Sheridan’s home-made sheep costume, which he had made by using highly flammable glue to stick cotton wool to a t-shirt and pants, burst into flames.

if the glue was still drying it'd go in seconds

shampoosuicide · 09-07-2015 08:20PM

Roquentin wrote: »

if i put a lighter to my jumper it will burn a big black hole in it. it will not combust. in order to get my jumper in flames i have to either throw it into a fire or hold the lighter there for a long period until it catches (if it does)

there is no way they would sell clothes that are flammable.

the costume was a massive factor in this. when i was in school someone held a lighter up to my fleece jacket and lit the lighter. what happened? nothing much, it singed a small hole in the fleece. i didn't feel in fear for my life and i don't consider myself to be a near victim of attempted murder. some people seem to be saying the costume doesn't matter, that this is likely to happen if you hold a lighter up to anyone's normal clothes. it really isn't, and i think i'd become a nudist if it was that easy to go up in flames.

not making excuses for the guy, just to re-iterate. i think a lot of people ITT are setting up false binaries. there's actually a happy medium inbetween condoning someone's actions and claiming that they were desperate to see someone burned alive.

GLaDOS · 09-07-2015 08:24PM

Zhane wrote: »

Am actually not going to comment further to you, because I actually think your trolling.

Mod note: If you have a problem with someone's posts use the report post button

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 08:24PM

shampoosuicide wrote: »

the costume was a massive factor in this. when i was in school someone held a lighter up to my fleece jacket and lit the lighter. what happened? nothing much, it singed a small hole in the fleece. i didn't feel in fear for my life and i don't consider myself to be a near victim of attempted murder. some people seem to be saying the costume doesn't matter, that this is likely to happen if you hold a lighter up to anyone's normal clothes. it really isn't, and i think i'd become a nudist if it was that easy to go up in flames.

not making excuses for the guy, just to re-iterate. i think a lot of people ITT are setting up false binaries. there's actually a happy medium inbetween condoning someone's actions and claiming that they were desperate to see someone burned alive.

this is what i am saying. the fool thought that it would just burn a hole in the costume. what he didnt realize is that costume was highly flammable and the man would go up in flames and that he would be put in jail.

09-07-2015 08:27PM

Again. He did it because he knew the costume was flammable. From the description, it would have been very f*cking obvious. Do you think he would have gone up to anyone else and set an open flame to their clothes? To their outfit? When you piece everything together (which I have outlined multiple times) you can tell that the guy is a serious mental case. I have no sympathy for him. He is a vile, disgusting human being. That is all.

K4t · 09-07-2015 08:41PM

It was a dangerous, nasty and incredibly immature thing to do - However, I highly doubt he knew what the final consequences would in fact be of his actions, but that's not to say he should not suffer punishment for the actual consequences. All things considered, I think the sentence is fair. It's a tragic story though and if he ever attempts something similar again he should face life no questions imo.

foggy_lad · 09-07-2015 08:51PM

shampoosuicide wrote: »

the costume was a massive factor in this.

The only important factor is that this cretin went up behind a person he did not know and set him on fire!

WHY would any normal, well adjusted, decent human being do such a thing?

when i was in school someone held a lighter up to my fleece jacket and lit the lighter. what happened? nothing much, it singed a small hole in the fleece. i didn't feel in fear for my life and i don't consider myself to be a near victim of attempted murder. some people seem to be saying the costume doesn't matter, that this is likely to happen if you hold a lighter up to anyone's normal clothes. it really isn't, and i think i'd become a nudist if it was that easy to go up in flames.

Most kids and teens have held a lighter to some part of their own clothing at some time out of pure boredom but a top covered with cotton wool is not normal clothing.

not making excuses for the guy, just to re-iterate. i think a lot of people ITT are setting up false binaries. there's actually a happy medium inbetween condoning someone's actions and claiming that they were desperate to see someone burned alive.

What excuse could ever be used?

People are stating that the costume was a factor, well No it was not a factor at all!

The "Jack-Ass" bastard with the lighter was the only factor in this awful crime and he should be made pay for as long as his victim has to suffer!

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 08:53PM

Jadiel Sharp Drizzle wrote: »

Are you starting a hypothetical argument?

Is there such a thing?

languagenerd · 09-07-2015 08:57PM

I doubt he intended or expected to do so damage, no. But that doesn't make him any less responsible for what happened. He certainly intended to carry out a minor assault on a complete stranger, and had plenty of time to rethink it as he walked up to him. He's very, very lucky it wasn't manslaughter.

Tbh, anyone who thinks it's funny to burn someone's clothing on a night out is a scumbag in my book. Whatever about your group of friends, if they're into that sort of stupidity in the name of "pranks", but to a complete stranger, minding their own business and just out to enjoy themselves? That's being a thug and a bully. We all have the reasonable expectation that we can go to a nightclub at not be burned - it wasn't a prank, it was thuggery.

No, I don't think he intended murder, but I think calling it "a dumb prank" or "a stupid mistake" is entirely wrong and very dismissive of what he actually did.

Mechanical Clocktail · 09-07-2015 09:00PM

The costume was clearly a hazard and he shouldn't have worn it. It could have caught fire from a cigarette being in contact with it in a smoking area from the sound of it. Setting fire to someone is something only a massive prick would do, but this lad went as a matchstick for Halloween, it was a bad move. I don't believe for a second this other young guy meant such grevious harm. That it was a stupid thing to do is entirely correct and beside the point, which is that it's a tragedy for both lads. I think the sentance was fair enough, there's no winning in such a case.

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 09:09PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

The only important factor is that this cretin went up behind a person he did not know and set him on fire!

WHY would any normal, well adjusted, decent human being do such a thing?

Most kids and teens have held a lighter to some part of their own clothing at some time out of pure boredom but a top covered with cotton wool is not normal clothing.

What excuse could ever be used?

People are stating that the costume was a factor, well No it was not a factor at all!

The "Jack-Ass" bastard with the lighter was the only factor in this awful crime and he should be made pay for as long as his victim has to suffer!

I earlier spoke of how the moron claimed that he didn't "intend" for what happened to happen. I was set straight by someone with a cooler head and now I have to accept that while this dickhead caused untold suffering to someone it wasn't his goal to torture/maim someone to the point where they almost died in excruciating agony.

We have to be clear on this. The usual posse who can't see beyond their noses will scream at intelligent thinkers and bark out the same lame platitudes such as "Oh.....so we should hug the defendant because he had a bad day/upbringing/crappy exam results". I don't even listen to that bilge anymore.

The victim of this did nothing to deserve his horrific ordeal.
The perpetrator is a reckless and idiotic wanker whose stupidity has resulted in someone's appalling agony.

BUT, and this is a HUGE BUT....the dickhead never intended to MURDER the victim. That just cannot be entertained...and certainly not proven.

That he is a piece of shit is undeniable. That he showed precious little remorse for how he caused such pain is reprehensible BUT it cannot be stated that he intentionally burned this guy to the point of death anymore than it could be proven that if you jumped on my back to smother me and snapped my neck or that someone threw a dart at someone's arse in the pub only for that dart to introduce chronic infection and paralysis or punctured an artery leading to death.

I know that holding a lighter to the guys costume was bound to ignite at least something. But if his intention was to murder someone by immolation then I can't see how it would have been so unclear.

anncoates · 09-07-2015 09:10PM

shampoosuicide wrote: »

the costume was a massive factor in this. when i was in school someone held a lighter up to my fleece jacket and lit the lighter. what happened? nothing much, it singed a small hole in the fleece. i didn't feel in fear for my life and i don't consider myself to be a near victim of attempted murder. some people seem to be saying the costume doesn't matter, that this is likely to happen if you hold a lighter up to anyone's normal clothes. it really isn't, and i think i'd become a nudist if it was that easy to go up in flames.

not making excuses for the guy, just to re-iterate. i think a lot of people ITT are setting up false binaries. there's actually a happy medium inbetween condoning someone's actions and claiming that they were desperate to see someone burned alive.

To be honest, I agree with this.

Somebody did the same to my laces in school as a stupid joke before.

The guy deserves to do time, no doubt but it seems like colossal act of drunken stupidity rather than going out to murder somebody.

Hrududu · 09-07-2015 09:40PM

I'm kind of astounded to find people defending this guy. Or almost blaming the victim because of what he wore. None of us know what went through the guys head or what his intentions were. We only know his actions. He walked up to a complete stranger, set him on fire and ran away leaving him to burn.

I read this story today and it made my blood run cold. What a nightmare for that poor guy.

lanos · 09-07-2015 09:41PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

I don't think most people are disputing the fact that this guy didn't intend to murder someone.

actually foggy-lad, zhane and bogman are implying that he deliberately set out to turn the victim into a fireball.

so some of us are just putting them straight.

but this is After Hours and moral outrage expressed here fills a void in those who actually do nothing to correct any of societies ills.

lanos · 09-07-2015 09:46PM

Hrududu wrote: »

Or almost blaming the victim because of what he wore.

where ????????
what post was this ?

Hrududu wrote: »

None of us know what went through the guys head or what his intentions were.

we are speculating on the balance of probabilities
and we won't be silenced by you

Anita Blow · 09-07-2015 09:55PM

lanos wrote: »

actually foggy-lad, zhane and bogman are implying that he deliberately set out to turn the victim into a fireball.

so some of us are just putting them straight.

but this is After Hours and moral outrage expressed here fills a void in those who actually do nothing to correct any of societies ills.

Which is why I said most.

Common law operates on the basis of reasonable foreseeability and expectations of a reasonable individual. A reasonable individual can foresee that deliberately setting fire to somebody's clothes has significant potential to cause grievous harm.

irishgeo · 09-07-2015 09:57PM

surprised mammy and daddy didnt make it go away before it got to court.

Hrududu · 09-07-2015 10:40PM

lanos wrote: »

where ????????
what post was this ?

Not sure how to multiquote but I just scrolled back a few posts

From Mechanical Clocktail

The costume was clearly a hazard and he shouldn't have worn it.

Shanotheslayer · 09-07-2015 10:50PM

Hrududu wrote: »

Not sure how to multiquote but I just scrolled back a few posts

From Mechanical Clocktail

Jesus that quote hurts my brain, the stupidity of it.

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 10:53PM

Hrududu wrote: »

I'm kind of astounded to find people defending this guy. Or almost blaming the victim because of what he wore. None of us know what went through the guys head or what his intentions were. We only know his actions. He walked up to a complete stranger, set him on fire and ran away leaving him to burn.

I read this story today and it made my blood run cold. What a nightmare for that poor guy.

Who is defending him? Nobody on here and certainly not I. If someone I loved was to be a victim of his action I would probably kill him. But that's REVENGE. I would NEVER be allowed on a jury to determine his fate or punishment.

You're correct when you say that none of us know his intentions. But by the same token if we can't prove his intentions then just because we're appalled by the outcome does not allow us to sling the law book out the window.

This happened nearly 3 years ago. Do you think that in all that time questions weren't asked?
I assure you .... and I'm no "hang 'em high" advocate....that this fcuker should serve 10 years. Not because he is a danger to society and certainly not because he needs rehabillitation for some penchant toward criminality. His punishment ought to be severe BUT fair.

This talk of "pay a hypothetical salary" is the stuff of twits. This yammering about "attempted murder" is embarrassing.
But more to the point, this accusation that anyone is defending the guy purely because they question what so many claim, i.e. that he attempted murder, is a knee-jerk insult.

Mechanical Clocktail · 09-07-2015 10:55PM

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Jesus that quote hurts my brain, the stupidity of it.

He wore a highly flammable and hazerdous homemade costume. If it had been sold to him I have no doubt your supreme outrage would be directed at both the retailer and manufacturer. Explain my stupidity Shano, assuming you've read my entire post. Be my guest.

FalconGirl · 09-07-2015 11:01PM

Very idiotic of anyone to try light an item of clothing on fire in an uncontrolled environment. He should be charged with attempted murder. There was also the chance the fire could have spread. LuckiIy it didn't.

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 11:17PM

Zhane wrote: »

If he didn't want to do that? Then why did he do exactly that? He went to the actual effort of going over to this guy and taking out his lighter and light his costume on fire...there was enough time for his cop on to kick in and tell himself this was a bad idea, but he didn't.

And when you stuck a beetle into your little sister's sandwich knowing it would scare, disgust or horrify her...only it got stuck in her oesophagus or stung her lip and she died or was dreadfully injured from infection then what would your stance be?

You did after all set in motion a chain off events that had a tragic outcome. You may have just wanted to "gross out" your sister, the same way as this tit most likely wanted to embarrass or "fcuk with" the victim.

Dousing the guy with petrol and setting him on fire is premeditated intent with malice aforethought. Being a prick whose actions led to this tragic and sickening outcome is not....no matter what you say....an intention to kill someone.

09-07-2015 11:19PM

If it were a scumbag who has a history of attacking and mugging people. Who also has a drug problem, he would get 2 years with 1 year suspended. Will be out in 6 months.

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 11:22PM

eisen1968 wrote: »

See it everyday folks. Remember some years ago student rugby players set upon one guy ( cant remember his name) he died, think two were sent to jail. Well respected families, good schools promising careers all destroyed because they didn't "THINK" about possible consequences until it was too late.

Everyday? Really?

What was today's travesty then? Or yesterday's? Or last Tuesday's?

Egginacup · 09-07-2015 11:29PM

Cormac... wrote: »

What a load of apologist hand-wringing nonsense

What do you mean "apologist"?

And what do you mean "hand-wringing"

Mechanical Clocktail · 09-07-2015 11:44PM

FalconGirl wrote: »

Very idiotic of anyone to try light an item of clothing on fire in an uncontrolled environment. He should be charged with attempted murder. There was also the chance the fire could have spread. LuckiIy it didn't.

Hysterics that only detract from what happened. Isn't it great to be jumping on a bandwagon though.

Student set alight in a nightclub, guy who did it gets 5-year sentence

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