Student set alight in a nightclub, guy who did it gets 5-year sentence

ongarboy · 09-07-2015 04:30PM

eisen1968 wrote: »

See it everyday folks. Remember some years ago student rugby players set upon one guy ( cant remember his name) he died, think two were sent to jail. Well respected families, good schools promising careers all destroyed because they didn't "THINK" about possible consequences until it was too late.

The infamous Annabels nightclub case....yes...it involved well heeled southside boys and their Cavan mate... Only the Cavan guy got jail. If they came from any other place in the country, they would all have done time!

I believe all 3 southsiders are doing well in cushy jobs right now sponsored by their well connected dads while Brian Murphy's parents suffer the life sentence of grief.

lanos · 09-07-2015 04:33PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

So dealing drugs that go on to kill people or are bought by violent people who rob shops and mug people to buy drugs is perfectly ok?

who said or even implied that dealing drugs is perfectly ok

nobody

is this how you make a point ?

Generic Dreadhead · 09-07-2015 04:34PM

The guy who did this is a f**kign scumbag pure and simple, should have been given double the sentence, that victim impact statement made for some really hard reading

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 04:34PM

i dont think some posters have read the full story. it wasnt as if the guy poured petrol over the victim and set him on fire. they were in a nightclub, the guy thought ill set fire to a little piece of the costume (halloween), a bit of it will burn and everyone will laugh. but the victims costume was made out of extremely flammable material and the whole costume just went on fire (im not trying to blame the victim in any way) it was a prank that went extremely wrong.

Generic Dreadhead · 09-07-2015 04:35PM

Roquentin wrote: »

i dont think some posters have read the full story. it wasnt as if the guy poured petrol over the victim and set him on fire. they were in a nightclub, the guy thought ill set fire to a little piece of the costume (halloween), a bit of it will burn and everyone will laugh. but the victims costume was made out of extremely flammable material and the whole costume just went on fire (im not trying to blame the victim in any way) it was a prank that went extremely wrong.

What a load of apologist hand-wringing nonsense

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 04:36PM

Cormac... wrote: »

The guy who did this is a f**kign scumbag pure and simple, should have been given double the sentence, that victim impact statement made for some really hard reading

i disagree. i dont think he knew that the whole costume would go up in fire. i think he thought in a moment of madness that only a bit of it would burn.

Generic Dreadhead · 09-07-2015 04:37PM

Roquentin wrote: »

i disagree. i dont think he knew that the whole costume would go up in fire. i think he thought in a moment of madness that only a bit of it would burn.

And that's ok by you is?

Christ, burning people is not a prank, life isn't presented by Johnny Knoxville and 4 Paramedics and Fire safety crew

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 04:41PM

Cormac... wrote: »

And that's ok by you is?

Christ, burning people is not a prank, life isn't presented by Johnny Knoxville and 4 Paramedics and Fire safety crew

im not saying that. im saying the defendant, who was intoxicated, when he put the lighter to the victim didnt think hed set him on fire completely. its awful what happened, but i dont believe the defendant fully envisaged what would be the outcome.

shampoosuicide · 09-07-2015 04:42PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

In that video the "prank" is totally staged! the guy in bed is fully clothed and appears to be ready, also the fire-starter uses lighter fluid which is great for the appearance of flame but is very easy to extinguish and rarely soaks through layers of clothing enough to burn the skin.

If the guy in bed had been working in a solvent factory and his clothes were soaked with highly flammable glues and solvents then the outcome would have been very different and the idiot with the lighter should be charged similarly to the idiot in the Sheridan case.

I believe Brian Keane just wanted to see someone(anyone) "burning alive" and he got what he wanted!

jesus christ that last sentence... right guys i'm out, OP abandoning thread.

might pop over to the Daily Mail for some balanced debate

mawk · 09-07-2015 04:44PM

I genuinely believe that the student just ****ed up. People can wonder what he was thinking when obviously he wasn't thinking. He didn't fill out his FMEA or hazard analysis. Just did something dumb not malicious.

That said I think his sentence doesn't cover the damage done to the poor other kid.

I like to wear over the top nonsense Halloween costumes that are more engineering challenge than arts and crafts. If someone did this to me I likely couldn't get out in any reasonable time and would be horribly injured. It's terrifying to think about.

He needs to spend a good long time making amends. Not just a few years being punished.

lanos · 09-07-2015 04:45PM

Roquentin wrote: »

i disagree. i dont think he knew that the whole costume would go up in fire. i think he thought in a moment of madness that only a bit of it would burn.

quite possibly this is true
however the real aggravating factors in this case happened afterwards.
no assistance given to the victim e.g. no attempt to extinguish the flames
left the scene
no apology
no offer of compensation
no early guilty plea
lying to the court

in my non-expert opinion, a more fitting sentence would be minimum 5-7 years behind bars (after remission and suspended time)

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 04:47PM

lanos wrote: »

quite possibly this is true
however the real aggravating factors in this case happened afterwards.
no assistance given to the victim e.g. no attempt to extinguish the flames
left the scene
no apology
no offer of compensation
no early guilty plea
lying to the court

in my non-expert opinion, a more fitting sentence would be minimum 5-7 years behind bars (after remission and suspended time)

definitely should have got the full five and when he gets out he will have to do more to earn forgiveness

languagenerd · 09-07-2015 05:10PM

ongarboy wrote: »

Only the Cavan guy got jail. If they came from any other place in the country, they would all have done time!

I really don't think that's true. You see plenty of utter scumbags from less well-off areas getting away with all sorts, 50+ previous convictions and still out on the streets harrassing people.

Maybe being well off helps you have a choice of excellent lawyers, but sentencing in Ireland is just a joke at the best of times.

09-07-2015 05:34PM

I still don't get people calling this a prank, as if to excuse what he did. And don't call it a mistake. A mistake is pushing into someone with a lit candle by accident.

Remember:

He didn't know the person.
He knowingly set something on fire because he knew it was going to burn. He intended for the guy to go up in flame. If it wasn't flammable looking, do you think he would have done it?
He ran when he saw what happened.
He had to be convinced by his friends to turn himself in. What if they hadn't? Would he have tried to get away with it?
When he turned himself in, he denied any responsibility or intent, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.
He refused to apologize to the person for the longest time.

The fact alone that he didn't even know the person, ran, didn't admit to responsibility, and refused to apologize shows that there is something absolutely f*cked up with this person.

Nidgeweasel · 09-07-2015 05:55PM

eisen1968 wrote: »

Trying to put myself in the situation, Party drink music craic. This guy thinks it will be great craic to light the costume of another. Pull out his lighter and lights costume, probably expected a small flame and some smoke until the somebody shouts " hey im on fire WTF. Flames are patted out and yeah that was a great little stunt. That's how I see it. Now what I think happened was, the very second that lighter was put to the fabric, it turned into an inferno in a split second. And in that split second two lives were destroyed. Pranks go badly wrong sometimes. I don't think this guy actually meant for such an incident to happen. If that is the case we are talking bout a complete psychopath. This guy is an idiot, who tried to impress his mates cos he thought this was cool. And now in the process he has destroyed an innocent life as well as his own. That's the price he pays for being an arsehole and unfortunately the medical student paid an even heavier price because he just happened to be in the vicinity of this arsehole when he tried to impress his mates at his expense.

Of course this is the scenario. But this is afterhours, home of the hysterical and those who absolutely love moral outrage.

It was a split second mistake which literally blew up in his face. People saying he wanted to see someone burn alive. Christ there's some gob****es around.

Rezident · 09-07-2015 06:02PM

5 years is far too weak a sentence considering the victim's injuries and suffering, he'll be out in 2 or 3. Shocking that even when you catch the criminals in a case like this, they get away with murder (almost).

fiachr_a · 09-07-2015 06:14PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I remember back in school a guy a couple of years ahead put a Bunsen burner to his friends backside for a couple of seconds as a "joke". This was forgotten about the next day but could have been a similar outcome if he was wearing a highly flammable outfit

Or had he farted.

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 06:27PM

eisen1968 wrote: »

Trying to put myself in the situation, Party drink music craic. This guy thinks it will be great craic to light the costume of another. Pull out his lighter and lights costume, probably expected a small flame and some smoke until the somebody shouts " hey im on fire WTF. Flames are patted out and yeah that was a great little stunt. That's how I see it. Now what I think happened was, the very second that lighter was put to the fabric, it turned into an inferno in a split second. And in that split second two lives were destroyed. Pranks go badly wrong sometimes. I don't think this guy actually meant for such an incident to happen. If that is the case we are talking bout a complete psychopath. This guy is an idiot, who tried to impress his mates cos he thought this was cool. And now in the process he has destroyed an innocent life as well as his own. That's the price he pays for being an arsehole and unfortunately the medical student paid an even heavier price because he just happened to be in the vicinity of this arsehole when he tried to impress his mates at his expense.

i agree, this is what likely happened.

09-07-2015 06:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He knowingly and willingly set someone on fire. That's not a damn prank, that's attempted murder. Plain and simple. Five years is far too lenient.

Its not as plain or as simple as that

lanos · 09-07-2015 07:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He intended for the guy to go up in flame.

You are being sensationalist. Why would a bright college student with a very good future ahead of him INTENTIONALLY blow everything doing something like this to somebody he never met. You really think he wanted to turn the guy into a fireball in front of dozens of eye witnesses.
Don't give up the day job. Forensic psychology is not for you.

Zhane · 09-07-2015 07:20PM

lanos wrote: »

You are being sensationalist. Why would a bright college student with a very good future ahead of him INTENTIONALLY blow everything doing something like this to somebody he never met. You really think he wanted to turn the guy into a fireball in front of dozens of eye witnesses.
Don't give up the day job. Forensic psychology is not for you.

If he didn't want to do that? Then why did he do exactly that? He went to the actual effort of going over to this guy and taking out his lighter and light his costume on fire...there was enough time for his cop on to kick in and tell himself this was a bad idea, but he didn't.

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 07:23PM

lanos wrote: »

You are being sensationalist. Why would a bright college student with a very good future ahead of him INTENTIONALLY blow everything doing something like this to somebody he never met. You really think he wanted to turn the guy into a fireball in front of dozens of eye witnesses.
Don't give up the day job. Forensic psychology is not for you.

exactly. hes hardly going to try and murder someone in front of 300 people

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 07:29PM

Zhane wrote: »

If he didn't want to do that? Then why did he do exactly that? He went to the actual effort of going over to this guy and taking out his lighter and light his costume on fire...there was enough time for his cop on to kick in and tell himself this was a bad idea, but he didn't.

like another poster attested, he probably thought that putting the lighter to the fabric would result in a small burn and a bit of smoke. the moment he made the decision to do that he never envisaged that the material would go up into flames.

if i put a flame to my t-shirt it burns. if i put a flame to my jeans, they burn. If i put a flame to a piece of cardboard it catches fire but burns slowly as the flame moves up. the same with paper although its a bit quicker. if i put the flame to plastic, it melts. this is what the defendant thought would happen: a small burn that would give off a bit of smoke. but the materials the mans costume were highly flammable. so what happened when he brought the lighter to them, is that they caught fire (different from burn)

to say that he deliberately knew that the victims material was flammable and that he wanted to set him on fire in front of 300 people, doesnt sound plausible. this was a prank that turned into a disaster.

Zhane · 09-07-2015 07:34PM

Roquentin wrote: »

like another poster attested, he probably thought that putting the lighter to the fabric would result in a small burn and a bit of smoke. the moment he made the decision to do that he never envisaged that the material would go up into flames.

if i put a flame to my t-shirt it burns. if i put a flame to my jeans, they burn. If i put a flame to a piece of cardboard it catches fire but burns slowly as the flame moves up. the same with paper although its a bit quicker. if i put the flame to plastic, it melts. this is what the defendant thought would happen: a small burn that would give off a bit of smoke. but the materials the mans costume were highly flammable.

to say that he deliberately knew that the victims material was flammable and that he wanted to set him on fire in front of 300 people, doesnt sound plausible. this was a prank that turned into a disaster.

If you put a flame to any fabric you run the risk of it going on fire. It was a stupid ****ing idiotic thing to do. He got off lightly.

Anita Blow · 09-07-2015 07:35PM

I don't think most people are disputing the fact that this guy didn't intend to murder someone. The fact however is that as any adult could reasonably foresee that setting someone's clothes alight has significant potential to cause serious bodily harm. That this harm was foreseeable trumps the fact that it was not intended.

He literally set somebody on fire causing burns to over 75% of his body. I've worked in a burns unit, I really don't think some here understand just how lethal a burn of that size is. The median lethal dose is 65%. It's wonder he's come out of it and returned to somewhat of a normal life, but he will live with the physical and psychological consequences of that man's reckless actions for the rest of his life. For anybody to suggest that 21 months in jail is enough is absolutely ludicrous.

09-07-2015 07:37PM

Roquentin wrote: »

like another poster attested, he probably thought that putting the lighter to the fabric would result in a small burn and a bit of smoke. the moment he made the decision to do that he never envisaged that the material would go up into flames.

Even if he only expected a little flame and smoke he still intentionally put a naked flame to another human being in a packed night club. There was a very real chance that even if the victim was fine, the fire could have caused the smoke alarms to go off followed by hundreds of people forcing their way out. Someone could easily have been crushed to death. There was also the chance that the fire could have spread engulfing the club in flame.

hatrickpatrick · 09-07-2015 07:38PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

So dealing drugs that go on to kill people or are bought by violent people who rob shops and mug people to buy drugs is perfectly ok?

In my view, yes. Same as selling cigarettes or booze. The specific person who specifically commits a violent act against another person is the person who should have the book thrown at them in court. They should not be able to pass the buck to someone who "made them do it" by selling them something, or whatever. Plenty of people drink and take drugs without attacking anyone, there's no reason everyone shouldn't be required to behave that way.

hatrickpatrick · 09-07-2015 07:43PM

RayM wrote: »

Alcohol-related antisocial behaviour is a big enough problem in this country to justify making an example of perpetrators.

All antisocial behavior should be treated with equal harshness by our legal system, and in my opinion that equal harshness should be the absolute harshest level possible.

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 07:53PM

think of the psychology of it. take the decision process that led up to the accident. its halloween, people are behaving in an anti social factor. the defendant sees someone with a costume and thinks in the spirit of the occassion " wouldnt it be funny to burn a bit of his costume"

he says burn because history has thought him that when you put a lighter flame to jumper, to a piece of cardboard, to a piece of rubbish, it does not catch fire or combust (burst into flame) what happens and everyone has done this at some point in their lives, it burns. if i light a cigarette, the whole cigarette doesnt suddenly engulf in flames in seconds. What happens is it burns, because the fag is not a combustible material.

Now based on that assumption that the defendant made, he said to himself internally "if i do that, there will be no danger." he said there would be no danger because life had told him so previously when he put a flame to clothing or piece of plastic. A) they dont catch flame and

you have to keep the flame their to make sure they burn.

So he thought, i will just leave the lighter there for one or two seconds and see the smoke and the charred material and it will be funny. but he made the wrong assumptions. the material was highly flammable and caught fire in mille-seconds.

i remember a few years ago in limerick, children were in a car and set on fire. that was deliberate. the scumbags who did that wanted to set them on fire. this is different. the defendant made the assumption (instantaneously it must be said and without thought) the action would only result in a minor burn to the victims costume. But he made the wrong assumption.

Roquentin · 09-07-2015 07:57PM

Zhane wrote: »

If you put a flame to any fabric you run the risk of it going on fire. It was a stupid ****ing idiotic thing to do. He got off lightly.

if i put a lighter to my jumper it will burn a big black hole in it. it will not combust. in order to get my jumper in flames i have to either throw it into a fire or hold the lighter there for a long period until it catches (if it does)

there is no way they would sell clothes that are flammable.

Student set alight in a nightclub, guy who did it gets 5-year sentence

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