General Rugby Discussion

Wang King · 08-07-2015 08:50PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

no he's not and no he won't

He walks in ahead of Williams, no doubt about that, if he's playing as well as we know he can, then yes, he has every chance of being in the 6n squad.

total former · 08-07-2015 09:28PM

Ahhhh TOL has no chance of being in the 6N squad, let's be realistic.

08-07-2015 09:37PM

Wang King wrote: »

He walks in ahead of Williams, no doubt about that, if he's playing as well as we know he can, then yes, he has every chance of being in the 6n squad.

You know he might have a chance, but that's because the options are so poor. And the converse to him playing as well as he can is if that he plays as badly as we know he can he won't make the Munster 23 never mind Ireland. Because the season before he left he was unbelievably poor. Admittedly I didn't see much of him at LI.

sydthebeat · 08-07-2015 09:47PM

Cooney has more of a chance of making the squad than TOL, to be blunt.

he hasnt played more than 30 minutes in a game competitve rugby this year, making only 2 starts in the season, 11 as sub.

to put it into context, strings has also 13 appearance for Bath this year, but 7 starts.

CatFromHue · 08-07-2015 10:05PM

Wang King wrote: »

He walks in ahead of Williams, no doubt about that, if he's playing as well as we know he can, then yes, he has every chance of being in the 6n squad.

I wouldn't be so sure of him walking in ahead of Williams tbh

ouncer · 08-07-2015 10:46PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

So according to the profile pages:

Munster: 39 players
Leinster: 41 players*
Ulster: 40 players
Connacht: 39 players

*Leinster's page had 36 but Hirst, RBF, Kearney, Sexton and Nacewa weren't added yet.

Ins and Outs: http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/34076-Transfers-2015-16

With all of the provinces cutting squad numbers, I wonder where the savings are going. In Munster's case most of the players that were let go were mostly injured anyway.

Strange. Watched BT sports when Connacht played Gloucester. The opinion was that Connacht were simply just about able to field a team and didn't have alternatives. Are you saying we are now more even. Was always of the idea that ulster, munster , Leinster had a bigger squad. Is it that they had bigger names but the numbers have always been equal? For some reason I doubt this. I always believed they had more resources. Am I wrong? If I am not wrong is something changing in Irish rugby?

thomond2006 · 08-07-2015 11:28PM

ouncer wrote: »

Strange. Watched BT sports when Connacht played Gloucester. The opinion was that Connacht were simply just about able to field a team and didn't have alternatives. Are you saying we are now more even. Was always of the idea that ulster, munster , Leinster had a bigger squad. Is it that they had bigger names but the numbers have always been equal? For some reason I doubt this. I always believed they had more resources. Am I wrong? If I am not wrong is something changing in Irish rugby?

Cutbacks I would say. In Munster's case the majority of players that haven't been replaced were mostly injured anyway.

molloyjh · 09-07-2015 12:21AM

Gloria Whispering Smallpox wrote: »

You know he might have a chance, but that's because the options are so poor. And the converse to him playing as well as he can is if that he plays as badly as we know he can he won't make the Munster 23 never mind Ireland. Because the season before he left he was unbelievably poor. Admittedly I didn't see much of him at LI.

He could only get 2 starts for the 10th placed side in English rugby last season. If he's in with a shout for the 6 Nations then we're in serious s**t.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 12:31AM

Have the rosary beads at the ready anytime Murray gets tackled during August folks.

Wang King · 09-07-2015 08:15AM

I think people's perceptions of TOL are coloured by his last year here, he had an awful time and his form and confidence disappeared down the drain, all I'm saying is if he has his game back, then he starts at Munster. That's the only reason he was brought back to the province, its been recognised that Williams isn't good enough to fill in life long term with Murray away, and TOL is the man they have chosen

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 08:18AM

Wang King wrote: »

I think people's perceptions of TOL are coloured by his last year here, he had an awful time and his form and confidence disappeared down the drain, all I'm saying is if he has his game back, then he starts at Munster. That's the only reason he was brought back to the province, its been recognised that Williams isn't good enough to fill in life long term with Murray away, and TOL is the man they have chosen

I don't think they would have given Williams a two year contract if that was the case.

Wang King · 09-07-2015 08:19AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't think they would have given him a two year contract if that was the case.

They wouldn't have brought in ToL if that wasnt the case

.ak · 09-07-2015 08:23AM

TOL has potential to be a brilliant scrumhalf. 2009 couldn't have been a fluke. But sport's a funny thing, how people's brains work under pressure etc. Right now he's not gonna be within an asses roar of any green jersey but it's good to have him back where he might find that form again, who knows.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 08:24AM

Wang King wrote: »

They wouldn't have brought in ToL if that wasnt the case

Possibly, but I reckon Williams would have gotten a year extension. I suppose it depends on what they are both being paid as well.

irishbucsfan · 09-07-2015 08:25AM

TOL has been perpetually injured since 2009. I'd be more concerned about just getting him on the field in the first place let alone wondering if he can start ahead of Williams. LI couldn't get him on the field consistently, let's hope Munster fair better.

total former · 09-07-2015 08:27AM

Wang King wrote: »

I think people's perceptions of TOL are coloured by his last year here, he had an awful time and his form and confidence disappeared down the drain, all I'm saying is if he has his game back, then he starts at Munster. That's the only reason he was brought back to the province, its been recognised that Williams isn't good enough to fill in life long term with Murray away, and TOL is the man they have chosen

I think the problem is that he was poor for quite a while before he left Munster and doesn't seem to have improved much at LI. That's five or six years of injury and mediocrity. He's still good enough to be a squad player but I wouldn't take it as a given that he'll be ahead of Williams at all.

(But I think Williams is hard done by on this forum, he's decent enough but prone to the odd clanger)

Buer · 09-07-2015 08:31AM

Munster are short on scrum half depth. Given Murray is undoubted Irish first choice, he'll be missing a good chunk of rugby for Munster so they need 3 senior scrum halves in the squad besides him for this season. Bringing TOL back was mutually beneficial. He had fallen right down the pecking order at LI to the point where he was third choice there and they don't have any world beaters at 9.

He might well be second choice but I'd say himself and Williams are starting out level pegging for that jersey. I'd expect them to rotate for the RWC period.

bilston · 09-07-2015 08:31AM

total former wrote: »

Ahhhh TOL has no chance of being in the 6N squad, let's be realistic.

At first I would have agreed but then don't forget both Boss and Reddan are nearing the end, who replaces them? Hopefully Marmion and McGrath, but they aren't there yet. Still unlikely TOL will nake it but maybe not as silly as it first seems.

Buer · 09-07-2015 08:38AM

bilston wrote: »

At first I would have agreed but then don't forget both Boss and Reddan are nearing the end, who replaces them? Hopefully Marmion and McGrath, but they aren't there yet. Still unlikely TOL will nake it but maybe not as silly as it first seems.

Honestly, I'd say Cooney is in with a decent shout right now. Out of all the pretenders, I feel he's started to step forward a little over the past 6 months.

It'll be very interesting to see how the Cooney/Marmion situation plays out in the next couple of years. Will KM move on if Cooney retains the jersey?

The elephant in the room is that one of the provinces will have a NIQ player in a specialist position for 7 years. That was grand up to this point but I'm surprised Pienaar was afforded a 3 year extension by the IRFU when we sort of know what is coming down the road.

total former · 09-07-2015 08:45AM

bilston wrote: »

At first I would have agreed but then don't forget both Boss and Reddan are nearing the end, who replaces them? Hopefully Marmion and McGrath, but they aren't there yet. Still unlikely TOL will nake it but maybe not as silly as it first seems.

This season, I'd expect Reddan and Boss to be there, then Marmion and maybe Cooney next. I'm not a fan of McGrath yet. TOL will be 32 when the 6N rolls around so he's not exactly one for the future either.

Swiwi. · 09-07-2015 09:07AM

Can't speak for others, but I sort of browse the General Rugby Discussion thread for interesting anecdotes or tidbits from around the rugby world, generally unrelated to Irish rugby.

So far this week we have had the whole Pro 12 funding debate, and now the fringe Irish scrumhalves debate.

I'm being grumpy, I know, but can the appropriate threads please be used for the appropriate discussions??

pickarooney · 09-07-2015 09:37AM

I'm surprised nobody's talking about James Hart any more. Can't get a start with Grenoble these days but would surely be of some use to a province.

total former · 09-07-2015 09:38AM

Swiwi. wrote: »

Can't speak for others, but I sort of browse the General Rugby Discussion thread for interesting anecdotes or tidbits from around the rugby world, generally unrelated to Irish rugby.

So far this week we have had the whole Pro 12 funding debate, and now the fringe Irish scrumhalves debate.

I'm being grumpy, I know, but can the appropriate threads please be used for the appropriate discussions??

Get that man a coffee, stat.

Fair point though.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 10:18AM

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody's talking about James Hart any more. Can't get a start with Grenoble these days but would surely be of some use to a province.

He's under contract until 2017 and because he's a JIFF player Grenoble will not want to let him go. I think he showed a lot of potential in his season as a starter and it wouldn't surprise me if Leinster did try to sign him before he signed his extension.

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2013-2014/grenoble-james-hart-prolonge-jusqu-en-2017_sto3976257/story.shtml

Buer · 09-07-2015 10:19AM

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm surprised nobody's talking about James Hart any more. Can't get a start with Grenoble these days but would surely be of some use to a province.

Rumour is that he was approached by Leinster but the neither him nor Grenoble were interested in him leaving.

thomond2006 · 09-07-2015 10:22AM

Buer wrote: »

Rumour is that he was approached by Leinster but the neither him nor Grenoble were interested in him leaving.

I wonder in hindsight if he would be the starter next season at Leinster had he come home. Charl McLeod was one of the signings of last season and isn't on the international radar with SA so Hart might struggle to get opportunities outside of the Challenge Cup. He's got time on his side in any case, he only turns 24 at the end of this month.

total former · 09-07-2015 11:26AM

Had forgotten about this but the teams have been named for South Africa vs World XV on Saturday:

The World
D.Armitage; Turner, Engelbrecht, Mermoz, Smith; Harris, Burgess; Taufa, S.Armitage, Whitelock; Botha (c), Williams; Hayman, Burden, Steenkamp.

Roumieu, Menini, Petrus Du Plessis, Flip Van der Merwe, Madaule, Machenaud, Horrell, Wulf.

The Boks
le Roux; Pietersen, Kriel, de Allende, Habana; Pollard, Pienaar; Whiteley, Coetzee, Louw; Matfield (c), Etzebeth; J. du Plessis, B. du Plessis, Mtawarira.

Strauss, Nyakane, Koch, Mohoje, Burger, Reinach, Lambie, de Villiers

Big Toulon presence in the ROW team

Swiwi. · 09-07-2015 11:44AM

Looks like a SA Probables vs Possibles game...

sydthebeat · 09-07-2015 12:02PM

delighted to see de Villers back!!

that was a horrific injury

b.gud · 09-07-2015 12:10PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

He's under contract until 2017 and because he's a JIFF player Grenoble will not want to let him go. I think he showed a lot of potential in his season as a starter and it wouldn't surprise me if Leinster did try to sign him before he signed his extension.

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/top-14/2013-2014/grenoble-james-hart-prolonge-jusqu-en-2017_sto3976257/story.shtml

What's a JIFF player?

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