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Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

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    #962
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Yes, with proper luggage/grocery-carrying fixtures. RSA "going Dutch".


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    #963
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Up on the Journo now: http://jrnl.ie/2193240

    Bring on the "I pay road tax..."


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    #964
    daragh_
    Registered Users Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭daragh_


    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Up on the Journo now: http://jrnl.ie/2193240

    Bring on the "I pay road tax..."

    Must not read the comments. Must not read the comments. :rolleyes:


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    #965
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    oakley2097 wrote: »
    Cyclist should be on the road

    If the traffic is too fast in cities (yes, it is) it should be slowed to 30kph with minimum passing distance so that all rider feel (are) safe

    Cycle lanes will never go everywhere, why bother with a half fix

    The minister was quite clear of the reasons for the no FPNs for this, mainly children and accompanying adults. It is still illegal and a Garda can also haul you up to court for it or if circumstances allow ie there are pedestrians around, he can give you the other FPN.

    For those who couldn't read between the lines of the ministers very clear comments, unless you are a child or accompanying a child, your probably going to get done.
    Tenzor07 wrote: »
    Up on the Journo now: http://jrnl.ie/2193240

    Bring on the "I pay road tax..."

    Well it was on twitter so that's another story for the journal


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    #966
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,060 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Jawgap wrote: »
    RSA and Gardai now encouraging cyclists not to wear hi-viz

    https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/616535809613762560

    Will talking on a phone while cycling be classed as "driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration" ? Because otherwise it's a) not illegal and b) not included in the publicised FPNs!


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    #967
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Some more of the offences.....

    https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/616539267574198272


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    #968
    Rakish Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Rakish Paddy


    Now I'm confused. The article on the journal lists:
    "3 - Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area"

    Surely this means it is an offence now to cycle on a footpath? Or was this list outdated when the comments came out yesterday about excluding footpath cycling from the list?


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    #969
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Now I'm confused. The article on the journal lists:
    "3 - Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area"

    Surely this means it is an offence now to cycle on a footpath? Or was this list outdated when the comments came out yesterday about excluding footpath cycling from the list?

    No, I'd say it means if you're one of the inconsiderate tools who cycles down, for example, Henry Street etc after 10-30am you'll be done.


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    #970
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Today's announcement from the department only has seven offences

    http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2015/introduction-fixed-charge-notices-cyclists-aims-promote-safe-cycling-practices
    Description of Offence Fixed Charge

    1. Cyclist driving a pedal cycle without reasonable consideration. €40

    2. No front lamp or rear lamp lit during lighting-up hours on a pedal cycle. €40

    3. Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area. €40

    4. Cyclist proceeding past traffic lights when the red lamp is illuminated. €40

    5. Cyclist proceeding past cycle traffic lights when red lamp is lit. €40

    6. Cyclist failing to stop for a School Warden sign. €40

    7. Cyclist proceeding beyond a stop line, barrier or half barrier at a railway level crossing, swing bridge or lifting bridge, when the red lamps are flashing. €40

    I would have liked to see cycling on the wrong side of the road in the list but there you go.


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    #971
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    realistically, imho, there will be a couple of weeks of enforcement, then there will be nothing, as per the current enforcement level of the existing laws that are already in place.


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    #972
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,912 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/lowest-level-of-fatalities-on-irish-roads-since-record-low-in-2012-31346468.html
    "
    Separately, the minister also announced that gardai will be allowed impose fines of up to €40 for cyclists who commit one of seven offences.


    The rules come into force from July 31 next.
    "

    On a side note - in the photo is this article an example were should have flashing amber cycling lights?


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    #973
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Now I'm confused. The article on the journal lists:
    "3 - Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area"

    Surely this means it is an offence now to cycle on a footpath? Or was this list outdated when the comments came out yesterday about excluding footpath cycling from the list?

    It is already an offence to cycle on the footway (footpath) under Article 13 of the Traffic and Parking regulations. This change to the mechanisms for fining people does not involve any changes in the actual traffic regulations.


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    #974
    Rakish Paddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 758 ✭✭✭Rakish Paddy


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    It is already an offence to cycle on the footway (footpath) under Article 13 of the Traffic and Parking regulations. This change to the mechanisms for fining people does not involve any changes in the actual traffic regulations.

    Bad choice of wording on my part. I meant that the third point in the list from thejournal.ie seems to specify cycling on the footpath as an offence with an automatic fine, whereas the minister's comments yesterday seemed to say cycling on the footpath would be excluded from the list.


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    #975
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Now I'm confused. The article on the journal lists:
    "3 - Cyclist proceeding into a pedestrianised street or area"

    Surely this means it is an offence now to cycle on a footpath? Or was this list outdated when the comments came out yesterday about excluding footpath cycling from the list?

    If I remember correctly, while it is inherently an offence to cycle on a footpath, for pedestrianised areas the offence is to drive past the sign for the pedestrian area. Its treated a bit like a no-entry sign.

    (I am not a lawyer etc etc see small print )


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    #976
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Rakish Paddy wrote: »
    Bad choice of wording on my part. I meant that the third point in the list from thejournal.ie seems to specify cycling on the footpath as an offence with an automatic fine, whereas the minister's comments yesterday seemed to say cycling on the footpath would be excluded from the list.

    It's a perception issue - it'll still be an offence to cycle on the footpath, but the last thing the DoT seem to want is for people to get a FCPN for it as they might serve as a wider deterrent to cycling.

    Guards will still be able to use their discretion to prosecute the worst offenders and they won't be under pressure to ticket people for it.

    I think it's a common sense response and perhaps provides some indication that they've listened to people's concerns.


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    #977
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    I would have liked to see cycling on the wrong side of the road in the list but there you go.
    Surely the first one covers that?
    what_traffic wrote: »
    On a side note - in the photo is this article an example were should have flashing amber cycling lights?
    Nope, my experience of T junctions is that you never know how wide a vehicle coming out has to swing and as often happens to me, I have to stop when I have a green light because I know the bellend coming through on red will not stop on the T junction. When the population is a bit more sensible and can learn to treat flashing amber lights as flashing amber lights rather than green lights, then yes, until, then, no.

    Basically, in theory what you are saying is sensible, in practice, a number of people will treat it as a green light and pay no attention, while they should be fined or up in court, its safer and easier IMO to leave as is so there is no ambiguity.


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    #978
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Surely the first one covers that?

    No, my kneejerk reaction is that the first one "reasonable consideration" should not even be on the list - it is hugely subjective. Where is it defined? Who decides? Some guard who has never had any cycle training and has no idea what is or is not safe cycling behaviour?

    Where is the word "consideration" in the traffic regulations?

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html

    If point (1) "reasonable consideration" only applies if some other defined offence has been committed, then why was there any need to define other offences for FPNs?


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    #979
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Today's announcement from the department only has seven offences

    http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2015/introduction-fixed-charge-notices-cyclists-aims-promote-safe-cycling-practices



    I would have liked to see cycling on the wrong side of the road in the list but there you go.

    Point 1 would cover most of that type of stuff not explicitly defined I would think.


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    #980
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jul/01/sabotage-and-hatred-what-have-people-got-against-cyclists

    Good read exploring why cyclists are hated so much, and how this irrational hatred is given legitimacy by some journalists and politicians in a way that would be unnacceptable when associated with any other social group.


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    #981
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,775 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from that article:
    "An analysis of police statistics found a failure to stop at a red light or stop sign was a factor in just 2% of serious adult cycling incidents; in contrast, drivers were deemed solely to blame about two-thirds of the time."

    i am going to quote this ad nauseam at people in future.


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    #982
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    from that article:
    "An analysis of police statistics found a failure to stop at a red light or stop sign was a factor in just 2% of serious adult cycling incidents; in contrast, drivers were deemed solely to blame about two-thirds of the time."

    i am going to quote this ad nauseam at people in future.

    I totally agree with this based on what I've seen. I've seen the odd one or two brake red lights but it's normally at pedestrian lights or junctions with little traffic where the chance of an accident is close to 0% .

    I never understood why motorists bang on about it? Jealousy maybe? :D


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    #983
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    from that article:
    "An analysis of police statistics found a failure to stop at a red light or stop sign was a factor in just 2% of serious adult cycling incidents; in contrast, drivers were deemed solely to blame about two-thirds of the time."

    i am going to quote this ad nauseam at people in future.

    I quoted that study in some other thread. Was a serious and independent TFL study a couple of years ago if I recall.....not just some cycling group throwing out random stats


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    #984
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Just edging in on this. In recent months I have seen a huge upsurge in really bad cycling. These people aren't cyclists though, it's the lads or ladies that are purely commuters or lunatics on Dublin bikes.

    Each journey I take during 'rush hour' I see at least 2 of these people doing something crazy or taking a risk. These measures being taken will hopefully lead to safer roads for all of us. I nearly wiped out a guy on a bike this week when I was crossing a junction he turned in front of me, had I not been on the ball he was gone and I'd have had to live with myself after possibly killing this guy and I for one don't want that.

    Don't get me wrong I see crazy car drivers too but we are all responsible for keeping the roads safe. Please obey traffic lights, please don't break pedestrian lights and for the love of God don't cycle at speed on footpaths :)


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    #985
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,834 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    2 people in a commute doing stupid things is nothing, unless your commute is 100 metres. I can drive to the shops less than a k away and see that translate to motorists.


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    #986
    OleRodrigo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭OleRodrigo


    LollipopJimmy wrote: »

    Don't get me wrong I see crazy car drivers too but we are all responsible for keeping the roads safe. Please obey traffic lights, please don't break pedestrian lights and for the love of God don't cycle at speed on footpaths :)

    I see more crazy drivers than cyclists, and living in the city center, I see my fair share of crazy cyclists. Top of the list, which I'm sure you havent come across yourself, is 'punishment passing' by taxi drivers who feel cyclists should not be in their lane, so they pass them aggressively to teach them a lesson. This is quite common in the bus lane through fairview heading towards the city center.

    Just on the point of cycling up one way streets - in some countries its regarded as safe cycling, for example, Sao Paulo & Rio - Brazil. Certainly they are cities with higher volumes of motor traffic and arguably much more dangerous for cyclists than Dublin, but a few neighbors of mine from those cities practice this in Dublin believing it is the right thing to do.


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    #987
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    No, my kneejerk reaction is that the first one "reasonable consideration" should not even be on the list - it is hugely subjective. Where is it defined? Who decides? Some guard who has never had any cycle training and has no idea what is or is not safe cycling behaviour?

    Where is the word "consideration" in the traffic regulations?

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html

    If point (1) "reasonable consideration" only applies if some other defined offence has been committed, then why was there any need to define other offences for FPNs?

    It's a nice blanket term for people who are a danger to themselves and others, nothing more. I admit it is annoying that you could be at the whim of a Garda who doesn't get why you have done what you did but I expect in the majority of cases you will be listened to if you respond with respect and courtesy and explain your reasoning for the behaviour that they pulled you in on.

    It's not perfect but it would be similar to driving without due care and attention. If your behaviour could hurt you or someone else, it's a FPN, if it could hurt you alone, either a FPN or a talking too. If it hurts no one but is just bad manners, the Garda can make their own mind up based on circumstances, much like they do with other traffic.
    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    Just edging in on this. In recent months I have seen a huge upsurge in really bad cycling. These people aren't cyclists though, it's the lads or ladies that are purely commuters or lunatics on Dublin bikes.
    Alot of cyclists are "purely commuters", they are still cyclists, I see as much bad cycling from people fully kitted out in race gear as I do from people in Hi Vis on high nellies.

    I admit DB seems to be a phenomenon unto itself in regards the worst of the worst typically but we are all cyclists.
    Each journey I take during 'rush hour' I see at least 2 of these people doing something crazy or taking a risk. These measures being taken will hopefully lead to safer roads for all of us. I nearly wiped out a guy on a bike this week when I was crossing a junction he turned in front of me, had I not been on the ball he was gone and I'd have had to live with myself after possibly killing this guy and I for one don't want that.
    If I took the time to note and report the stupidity from cyclists and motorists on the road every day, my life would cease outside of my commute, there are these same people in cars, the same people on foot. It has nothing to do with being on a bike, these people are just completely out of touch with the world around them and the risk associated with their poor behaviour.


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    #988
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    what_traffic wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/lowest-level-of-fatalities-on-irish-roads-since-record-low-in-2012-31346468.html
    "
    Alternative headline:
    Scramble to take credit for regression to the mean.


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    #989
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,748 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    from that article:
    "An analysis of police statistics found a failure to stop at a red light or stop sign was a factor in just 2% of serious adult cycling incidents; in contrast, drivers were deemed solely to blame about two-thirds of the time."

    i am going to quote this ad nauseam at people in future.

    I know somene who worked for the Fire Services on the ambulance beat. He said that red-light jumping was really rare as a source of injury. Dooring was the big one.


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    #990
    mcgratheoin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,461 ✭✭✭mcgratheoin


    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    These measures being taken will hopefully lead to safer roads for all of us.
    How? Cyclist behaviour is a minor factor in cycling injuries when compared to driver behaviour. Explain to me how FPNs for cyclists will improve the poor behaviour of drivers that leads to the majority of incidents?
    I nearly wiped out a guy on a bike this week when I was crossing a junction he turned in front of me, had I not been on the ball he was gone and I'd have had to live with myself after possibly killing this guy and I for one don't want that.
    Well done for avoiding a cyclist, you must be a great driver.


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    #991
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    Just edging in on this. In recent months I have seen a huge upsurge in really bad cycling. These people aren't cyclists though, it's the lads or ladies that are purely commuters or lunatics on Dublin bikes.

    Each journey I take during 'rush hour' I see at least 2 of these people doing something crazy or taking a risk. These measures being taken will hopefully lead to safer roads for all of us. I nearly wiped out a guy on a bike this week when I was crossing a junction he turned in front of me, had I not been on the ball he was gone and I'd have had to live with myself after possibly killing this guy and I for one don't want that.

    Don't get me wrong I see crazy car drivers too but we are all responsible for keeping the roads safe. Please obey traffic lights, please don't break pedestrian lights and for the love of God don't cycle at speed on footpaths :)

    Just for context;
    - motorists kill 200 people a year, cyclists don't.
    - cyclists deaths are low - 3 so far this year
    - the last death on Irish roads caused by a cyclist was more than 10 years ago


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