DART Underground planning due to lapse, but lots of Airport Luas talk?

jd wrote: »

If DU is built, wouldn't line at SSG serve current Northern line?

Yes based on the plans for the interconnector the northern line would have operated to hazelhatch via SSG

monument wrote: »

Dart Underground planning approval / railway order due to lapse in September if the Government does not make the final call then. But this week and last week there's articles of Luas link to Dublin Airport being funded under the Aer Lingus windfall.

This seems like a big mistake given that the Dart project is ready to go and has one of the best cost benefit ratio around and would have far-reaching benefits.

This is all when a good amount of Dublin-based TDs are ministers.

Are we going around and around and around? Or is it just local TDs pushing local projects?



http://www.northcountyleader.ie/2015/06/16/local-reps-differ-over-aer-lingus-loot/

when I read about this last week I thought at first that the airport link wouldn't qualify but maybe it does reading this more recent description

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-06-23a.16&s=%22connectivity+fund%22#g18.r

connectivity fund

Given that the proceeds came from the sale of the State's stake in a transport asset, the fund will be dedicated to enhancing connectivity both within and for the State. It will allow for much needed investment in a range of commercially viable connectivity projects, both domestic and international. The projects will generate economic impact and competitiveness benefits for Ireland through enhancing our regional connectivity, improving attractiveness and competitiveness in the tourism sector, and promoting investment and enhanced opportunities for growth. For the purposes of the Fund, 'connectivity' will be broadly defined. Therefore, connectivity will be taken to include traditional transport type projects, such as ports and airports, and access to such assets. However, it will also take a wider definition of connectivity to include, for example, data connectivity (including broadband, fibre optic cables, interconnectors, etc) and energy connectivity (including energy inter-connectors and other related projects).

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2015-06-23a.16&s=%22connectivity+fund%22#g18.r

Its insane to think that Luas could be an option to the airport given how over capacity the green line already is. The demand for it would be just too much from day one and then the politicians will pretend for years that its just a popular service before admitting defeat and going ahead with an airport dedicated underground in the end.

Exactly, the "but how were we to know" excuses, simply dont wash anymore!

I had a German colleague who lived here and still does for over twenty years, her logic on it was, we simply couldnt be that stupid when it came to planning, there was simply far more money in getting it wrong than right...

My German dad could never understand how a country with about the population of Berlin a bit over a decade back. Had such problems in running itself and the poor infrastructure... Yet here we still are!

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its insane to think that Luas could be an option to the airport given how over capacity the green line already is. The demand for it would be just too much from day one and then the politicians will pretend for years that its just a popular service before admitting defeat and going ahead with an airport dedicated underground in the end.

If LUAS is built and runs at or near capacity it means the project was justified.

what's current public transport capacity to/from the airport? Anytime I see the Aircoach it does not look packed.

Aircoach is quite expensive, it also competes with a Dublin bus express service (747, I think). Also the 41 routes go to city centre. Do taxis qualify as public transport? lots of them to/from airport.
Any metro/luas to the airport would almost certainly be cheaper/more frequent than the Aircoach and would also serve Swords and other parts of north Dublin

I have stopped using aircoach... too many bottlenecks in town for my liking and the fact they dont have RTPI...

Dublin bus express service (747, I think)

yeah the 747 goes from heuston station to the airport via the port tunnel. Takes out god knows how many lights between O'Connell street and airport. I had the gf take it the other day and also drove to the airport via it the other day...

Ireland does a reasonable job in general , given the constraints ( or have you not driven our motorways at all

yes I have and I use them frequently... The roads are now in general of a very good standard and the motorway network is impressive. Rail has been starved of funding for too long. With the motorway network now as good as complete, I HOPE that rail will start getting adequate funding. Because some of the rail schemes I see held up for pocket change amounts is insane, you then read about a road scheme getting hundreds of millions in funding as if its nothing... Dublins roads are not up to the insane volumes of traffic they handle, end of story.

Adequate rail infrastructure is needed and has been pointed out, if it goes through green or brownfield sites, then great, they can be put up at high densities that promote sustainable living...

If it does that from day one, given that Dublin and Airport traffic are projected to grow, it means the "solution" was under-speced.

does anyone think in 5 years that if we were discussing this, that Luas would be an option? If no, why the hell is it being put forward when the bloody thing wont even be built in 5 years? Build something that will be able to take serious numbers of people whom we can house within a reasonable distance of the new line... Its mainly to the north and west that Dublin can expand...

If it does that from day one, given that Dublin and Airport traffic are projected to grow, it means the "solution" was under-speced.

another government commissioned report was carried out was it around 05-06 saying Luas wouldnt be up to the job, to put it simply. Yet on the one hand we have out current government ministers banging on about our fantastic growth, claiming lessons have been learned. Yet this hatchet Luas job is being put forward, probably as they will be seen to do something and its "cheap" compared to some of the alternatives. Well price is what you pay and value is what you get. Do they think the hundreds of millions just vanishes when they commit to a construction project, or does a huge amount not go back to the exchequer? including corporation tax, employment taxes, vat on materials and all of the spin off jobs and a myriad of other areas?

Isnt that what Burton kept raising, that with sacred welfare cash cow, that money flows through the economy and supports / creates jobs?

A real pity that work had not commenced on MN and DU with contracts signed before the poo hit the fan. Billions wasted on other areas IMO, that could have been far better spent...

Idbatterim wrote: »

yes I have and I use them frequently... The roads are now in general of a very good standard and the motorway network is impressive. Rail has been starved of funding for too long. With the motorway network now as good as complete, I HOPE that rail will start getting adequate funding. Because some of the rail schemes I see held up for pocket change amounts is insane, you then read about a road scheme getting hundreds of millions in funding as if its nothing... Dublins roads are not up to the insane volumes of traffic they handle, end of story.

We're currently building a motorway between the Village Gort and town of Tuam County Galway, populations 2,700 and 8,200 respectively so that they can use it as a 'commuter motorway'(yes they are still a thing even after the N3 Dublin-Navan disaster) to Galway City, pop. 75,000

The motorway will cost over €550 million and traffic levels will be about 10,000 cars per day(an extrodinarily optimistic projection by the NRA given the population served and the declining population in the area) on a road designed for 50,000 cars per day. Nobody bats an eyelid at this.

Compare that to the proposed spend on a luas to the airport, over capacity from day 1. And there'll STILL be shrills screaming about Dublin getting everything.

BoatMad wrote: »

Heavy surface rail investment is a waste of money. It's an outdated restricted capacity system

Wha'?

the only thing stopping investment in the heavy rail network is politics

cgcsb wrote: »

Metro North is a grade separated luas

indeed but built to heavy rail standards I understand

mind you I find it bizarre we have as a country introduced two rail gauges , when most two gauge countries are tearing up theirs

BoatMad wrote: »

indeed but built to heavy rail standards I understand

Nope, to light rail standards

BoatMad wrote: »

mind you I find it bizarre we have as a country introduced two rail gauges , when most two gauge countries are tearing up theirs

Not true, take Spain as an example 3 different gauges. It wouldn't really be practical to have Irish Gauge on street trams. The trams have to be made in factories in other countries, so it's cheaper to order them in standard gauge than having them built to Irish gauge on a bespoke basis.

BoatMad wrote: »

actually the two [Luas]lines are connected by engineering tracks, this could be upgraded in future http://www.irrs.ie/Journal%20177/luas_map_2012.pdf

personally a thing few would want to interchange with the Maynooth line, most would be heading for the major terminus is they want access to heavy rail

BoatMad in fairness you probably should take a bit of time to at least read up about Dublin. Even those with only a passing knowledge of the place will tell you that the green line terminates at Stephen's Green and the amount of people commuting into town along the N3/Maynooth line corridor is ferocious of a morning.

cgcsb wrote: »

BoatMad in fairness you probably should take a bit of time to at least read up about Dublin. Even those with only a passing knowledge of the place will tell you that the green line terminates at Stephen's Green and the amount of people commuting into town along the N3/Maynooth line corridor is ferocious of a morning.

i dont understand your comments

in effect luas cross city is an extension of the green line , there as planed to be engineering connection to the red line,

a luas interchanging with the maynooth line is in fact a duplication , as both are heading to the centre, traffic in other directions is likely to be small.