Repeating Teaching Subjects

sop931 · 29-06-2015 6:41pm #1

Hi Guys,

Would just like some advice, I am qualified to teach English as an NQT. Being a teacher myself I shouldn't be saying this but I didn't have the best teacher in school myself and wasn't exactly focused due to the little effort the teacher made. I got a C1 in English at Leaving Cert level. I thoroughly enjoyed English at University and got results that made me proud.

The purpose of this thread is seek advice regarding sitting the English exam next year as an external candidate. I am not currently teaching and feel like my Leaving Cert result is following me around like a bad smell. I would like to get it sorted for applications in the future etc. for my own peace of mind.

This is aimed at English teachers in terms of advice for comparative etc.

Any advice is welcome!

man_no_plan · 29-06-2015 6:59pm

sop931 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Would just like some advice, I am qualified to teach English as an NQT. Being a teacher myself I shouldn't be saying this but I didn't have the best teacher in school myself and wasn't exactly focused due to the little effort the teacher made. I got a C1 in English at Leaving Cert level. I thoroughly enjoyed English at University and got results that made me proud.

The purpose of this thread is seek advice regarding sitting the English exam next year as an external candidate. I am not currently teaching and feel like my Leaving Cert result is following me around like a bad smell. I would like to get it sorted for applications in the future etc. for my own peace of mind.

This is aimed at English teachers in terms of advice for comparative etc.

Any advice is welcome!

I haven't seen leaving cert results on a cv since we did our own in school! I'd concentrate on teaching and try to make sure that your students do the best they can.

The leaving cert doesn't define you. I prefer a b student as a teacher than the straight a type, not that you would ever know a teachers lc results anyway. Your degree trumps your lc.

r93kaey5p2izun · 29-06-2015 7:05pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

I haven't seen leaving cert results on a cv since we did our own in school! I'd concentrate on teaching and try to make sure that your students do the best they can. .

They're required on many application forms and I've been asked about mine in several recent interviews believe it or not!

sop931 · 29-06-2015 7:07pm

Yeah I have been asked numerous times about my results and I do feel like interview panels look at my results thinking: 'he got a C1 in the syllabus he will be teaching'

evolving_doors · 29-06-2015 7:27pm

Sienna Some Earth wrote: »

They're required on many application forms and I've been asked about mine in several recent interviews believe it or not!

I was asked why I hadnt put down my Junior Cert results about 8 years ago!

I can see where the OP is coming from though, one of my LC subject results (which I now teach! )was pretty disappointing considering I knew I would have aced a certain practical section (bout 40% of overall grade..). I just came out with a C2 and got the points I wanted so thought nothing of it. Looking back I should have appealed but didn't know there was such a thing in those days.

It still hangs over me now despite my Degree!

Some of the adult education colleges do LC subjects OP, usually you have to do the 6 but they might let you do individual subjects. Id be cagey about telling them you're a teacher though... I dont know how it would sit with an english teacher to have another teacher sitting in (personally I wouldnt care). So I think those colleges would have their own exam centre away from the kids, so even if you don't sit the classes you could ask the college manager/principal about sitting the LC on the day (and of course principal's can be funny about letting outsiders sit exams with their own students... maybe it might distract other students with a stranger in the room or something).

Mardy Bum · 29-06-2015 7:31pm

This is a bad idea. Do a MA if you are worried about your LC results. Repeating your LC English exam is ludicrous. You would need at least an MA if you want an English job.

r93kaey5p2izun · 29-06-2015 7:37pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I was asked why I hadnt put down my Junior Cert results about 8 years ago!

I can see where the OP is coming from though, one of my LC subject results (which I now teach! )was pretty disappointing considering I knew I would have aced a certain practical section (bout 40% of overall grade..). I just came out with a C2 and got the points I wanted so thought nothing of it. Looking back I should have appealed but didn't know there was such a thing in those days.

It still hangs over me now despite my Degree!

You can't win though! I got A1s in mine and I think that's being held against me now. Man_no_plan's comment above is certainly worrying. What can I do though? Repeat for a B2!?

OP I would have thought an honour followed by a good degree would have been looked upon favourably. But if you're getting the impression that it's holding you back you could easily repeat as an external candidate.

sop931 · 29-06-2015 7:41pm

Thanks for the replies everyone! I feel like it is holding me back in my own confidence and it is annoying me more than anything to be honest every time I fill out an application.
I know I am a good teacher but I want my results to show this! I want to do it for myself. I just need to plan how to go about it! Working away for the year at home and then just sitting the exam as an external candidate?

Moody_mona · 29-06-2015 7:50pm

If it's holding back your confidence, what happens if you have a bad day or don't do as well as you'd hoped? Don't mean to offend you. I think it would be worse on your CV if you repeated as a qualified teacher and didn't get an A1.

I did a concurrent science degree that you could into with Ordinary level Maths and Biology (one science) and come out teaching Higher level Maths and Physics or Chemistry, which is bizarre initially, but then you so enough in college to more than make up for it.

spurious · 29-06-2015 8:31pm

sop931 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies everyone! I feel like it is holding me back in my own confidence and it is annoying me more than anything to be honest every time I fill out an application.
I know I am a good teacher but I want my results to show this! I want to do it for myself. I just need to plan how to go about it! Working away for the year at home and then just sitting the exam as an external candidate?

If you want to do it, do it, but not for job application purposes. I ended up teaching and doing a degree in a subject I never even did at LC.

You will need to apply as an external candidate through http://www.examinations.ie in January. It will count as a repeat Leaving Cert. so there will be fees above the standard fee to be paid.

Decidedly more useful from a teaching point of view would be to get in on corrections, even at a very low level.

evolving_doors · 29-06-2015 8:36pm

I suppose in the general scheme of things there are other more 'worthy' courses you could be doing to 'upskill' your CV. I can understand why people are saying to forget about it and move on (and I'd probably say the same). But... if it's really getting to you confidence wise, and you could get a good grade with minimal effort then I don't see what's the problem taking it on as a side project. Nobody has to know you are doing it anyway !

At some stage though you're going to have to draw a line under it, either act now or forget about it. Maybe you could raise it in an interview question (how you overcame a problem or one of your weaknesses!).

r93kaey5p2izun · 29-06-2015 8:38pm

Moody_mona wrote: »

If it's holding back your confidence, what happens if you have a bad day or don't do as well as you'd hoped? Don't mean to offend you. I think it would be worse on your CV if you repeated as a qualified teacher and didn't get an A1.

I did a concurrent science degree that you could into with Ordinary level Maths and Biology (one science) and come out teaching Higher level Maths and Physics or Chemistry, which is bizarre initially, but then you so enough in college to more than make up for it.

I agree it could be a knock to self-confidence if it didn't go well, but you just wouldn't put it on your CV if it didn't work out.

What you say about your degree more than making up for LC subjects is of course absolutely true. But that doesn't change the fact that LC results are being taken into consideration at the moment as part of the recruitment process no matter what further education qualifications you hold!

From what I have seen they are required on just about every application form other than standard ETB online form. But I was recently asked about mine in an ETB interview.

Moody_mona · 29-06-2015 8:40pm

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Maybe you could raise it in an interview question (how you overcame a problem or one of your weaknesses!).

I think that's a very good idea actually.

gaeilgebeo · 29-06-2015 8:51pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

You would need at least an MA if you want an English job.

This is not true. At all!

Mardy Bum · 29-06-2015 8:54pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

This is not true. At all!

If the person is an NQT with an average LC and no experience or references from principals the only way they will make it to interview is with an MA. There is a glut of English teachers and only the best will get a look in.

An MA is a much better option in terms of a job than repeating LC English.

aunt aggie · 29-06-2015 8:57pm

Its come up in interviews that BOTH my teaching subjects are my two worst LC results. C1s but still it looks bad. I just point out that I may have been overconfident or prioritising other subjects but my results throughout my degree show that I have excellent subject knowledge.

Don't repeat! That will only draw interviewers attention even closer to you LC results.

gaeilgebeo · 29-06-2015 9:04pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

If the person is an NQT with an average LC and no experience or references from principals the only way they will make it to interview is with an MA. There is a glut of English teachers and only the best will get a look in.

An MA is a much better option in terms of a job than repeating LC English.

I agree.
There is a huge supply of English teachers.
I don't think it's fair to say that a NQT must have an MA.
If the OP could get a maternity leave etc..., that'd get them on the ladder.
They did state their degree results are very good.
None of the NQTs who did maternity leaves/fixed term contracts in my school last year had MAs.

I would much quicker add a subject than do an MA.

sop931 · 29-06-2015 9:06pm

Can I just point out I haven't taught English outside of my PDE year but have spent the past year teaching my second subject. I may not have experience teaching English but school experience, references etc. wouldn't be an issue necessarily.

Mardy Bum · 29-06-2015 9:31pm

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I agree.
There is a huge supply of English teachers.
I don't think it's fair to say that a NQT must have an MA.
If the OP could get a maternity leave etc..., that'd get them on the ladder.
They did state their degree results are very good.
None of the NQTs who did maternity leaves/fixed term contracts in my school last year had MAs.

I would much quicker add a subject than do an MA.

I've seen people drift around on different maternity leaves without getting something solid.

My MA suggestion is influenced mainly by the OP's lack of confidence. An MA is a much much stronger qualification (especially in English) and will help build the OPs confidence. It will also help at interviews.

Adding a subject is generally much more laborious.

gaiscioch · 29-06-2015 11:10pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Adding a subject is generally much more laborious.

True, there's more to it, but not much. I added a subject in two years (30 credits per year), but my experience is it has been considerably more useful to have another teaching subject than to have a postgrad. Of course the subject you choose matters. English and History sounds like a bad combination in terms of the jobs market, for instance.

After you have good subjects, then I agree that a postgrad would be beneficial for a cv.

evolving_doors · 30-06-2015 12:02am

aunt aggie wrote: »

Its come up in interviews that BOTH my teaching subjects are my two worst LC results. C1s but still it looks bad. I just point out that I may have been overconfident or prioritising other subjects but my results throughout my degree show that I have excellent subject knowledge.

Don't repeat! That will only draw interviewers attention even closer to you LC results.

I dunno, I don't see what the big deal is with repeating just one subject.
Would it take that much study even if the OP was doing and MA or another subject (only the OP could answer that!).

It's not as if you have to present the 2 English results separately on the CV anyway. You just replace the new A1 (:)) with the old grade and carry on.
If there's anything said then the OP could just say they weren't happy with the first result and put a positive spin on it.

RealJohn · 02-07-2015 12:40am

I'm not remotely ashamed to admit that I got a C1 and a C2 in my teaching subjects. I also got an M.Sc in one and a B.Sc in the other and that's what's important. We weren't all perfect, straight A students and frankly, I think if we were we'd find it a lot harder to engage with the vast majority of students, who aren't.
If anything, I'd say that 'less than perfect' leaving cert results are better then As in your teaching subjects.

in_the_sky · 19-07-2015 7:15pm

^!

katydid · 19-07-2015 8:54pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I've seen people drift around on different maternity leaves without getting something solid.

.

All teaching practice counts in the end. When I was drifting from maternity leave to maternity leave in the eighties, I used it as a plus in interviews; I was getting experience in different kinds of schools with different kinds of students, and learning from different colleagues all the time.

"Adding a subject is generally much more laborious."

Not necessarily. I upgraded one of my first year subjects to degree level by night after I had done my dip, so I had three subjects to offer. It definitely helped.

seriouslysweet · 20-07-2015 12:49am

My sister says her A1 results held her back and got a job once she took her LC results off. Is it not standard to just put the last 2 academic results?

mirrorwall14 · 20-07-2015 1:20am

seriouslysweet wrote: »

My sister says her A1 results held her back and got a job once she took her LC results off. Is it not standard to just put the last 2 academic results?

Never heard of good results holding you back. My LC results are on my CV and include several A1s. I've gotten every teaching position I interviewed for. It was bloody awful trying to get interviews but I don't think it was my LC results, it was just the jobs market

katydid · 20-07-2015 9:55am

seriouslysweet wrote: »

. Is it not standard to just put the last 2 academic results?

It would be, but some application forms have a section for LC.

seavill · 20-07-2015 2:58pm

seriouslysweet wrote: »

My sister says her A1 results held her back and got a job once she took her LC results off. Is it not standard to just put the last 2 academic results?

in what way did it hold her back?

Crazyteacher · 20-07-2015 4:09pm

Why are people including leaving cert results ? Your degree/teaching qual/experience/cps, refs are all that's required now. I know the odd school does request them but the majority don't. Unless you are asked no need to include them.

mtoutlemonde · 20-07-2015 4:17pm

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Why are people including leaving cert results ? Your degree/teaching qual/experience/cps, refs are all that's required now. I know the odd school does request them but the majority don't. Unless you are asked no need to include them.

I filled in two applications recently that looked for Leaving Cert results and there were a few ads in June but I think it was a way of shortlisting.

r93kaey5p2izun · 20-07-2015 4:51pm

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Why are people including leaving cert results ? Your degree/teaching qual/experience/cps, refs are all that's required now. I know the odd school does request them but the majority don't. Unless you are asked no need to include them.

It has been required on dozens of application forms I have completed over the past two years. Every non-VEC school to which I have applied has required it.

dory · 20-07-2015 5:02pm

Crazyteacher wrote: »

Why are people including leaving cert results ? Your degree/teaching qual/experience/cps, refs are all that's required now. I know the odd school does request them but the majority don't. Unless you are asked no need to include them.

It's standard on any application form I've ever filled out.

IvyTheTerrible · 20-07-2015 5:06pm

It seems bizarre to me that schools would worry about a candidate's LC result in a subject in which they have a good BA and MA. Having an A1 LC doesn't mean you "know" a syllabus well enough to teach it.

spurious · 20-07-2015 6:42pm

I didn't do either of my teaching subjects at Leaving Cert..

maynooth_rules · 21-07-2015 10:06am

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

It seems bizarre to me that schools would worry about a candidate's LC result in a subject in which they have a good BA and MA. Having an A1 LC doesn't mean you "know" a syllabus well enough to teach it.

The same logic could be used for Masters though. And example being a teacher that has a masters in History. Litter on that course will have been useful whatsoever to being a teacher.

IvyTheTerrible · 21-07-2015 2:02pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The same logic could be used for Masters though. And example being a teacher that has a masters in History. Litter on that course will have been useful whatsoever to being a teacher.

I'm sorry, I don't really follow you. Can you explain what you mean, please?

RealJohn · 21-07-2015 2:25pm

I'm going to guess that autocorrect made a mess of what maynooth was trying to say. I think the point was that, depending on the subject and aims of the masters degree, it might be completely irrelevant to its corresponding leaving cert subject so including the results on your CV could be of little practical benefit, in much the same way that your leaving cert results might not be of much practical benefit in terms of your subject knowledge.

Mardy Bum · 21-07-2015 5:04pm

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The same logic could be used for Masters though. And example being a teacher that has a masters in History. Litter on that course will have been useful whatsoever to being a teacher.

Subject knowledge is a very important part of being a teacher. An MA in a subject is infinitely more useful than a good leaving certificate result.

katydid · 21-07-2015 5:29pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Subject knowledge is a very important part of being a teacher. An MA in a subject is infinitely more useful than a good leaving certificate result.

MA's can be very specialised, and not very relevant to what you would be teaching in second level.

evolving_doors · 21-07-2015 5:34pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Subject knowledge is a very important part of being a teacher. An MA in a subject is infinitely more useful than a good leaving certificate result.

Although it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of assumptions that you might teach the way you were taught! If you obtained an A then chances are that some good practices might have rubbed off for your own teaching! (maybe!)

maynooth_rules · 21-07-2015 6:35pm

Yep auto correct made a dogs dinner of my post. Thanks Real John for essentially making sense of my drivel.

Repeating Teaching Subjects

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