Angelus Bells and the 6.01

SpaceTime · 26-06-2015 10:27AM

What about just open it as a 1 minute slot for Ireland's film makers to screen shorts ?

That might be actually useful and you need something less bloody dreary before hearing the latest from RTE news on who's corruptly going to cause you yet more misery.

Inspire a bit of creativity instead of a dreary, dogmatic religious thing.

Samaris · 26-06-2015 10:30AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Do we have to go through why this isn't a good reason for anything on every last "should we do X" thread?

Not at all, I don't hold it to be a be-all and end-all reason to do anything, and quite often argue against traditional views where I feel them to be harmful. But if something is harmless, and I reckon the Angelus Bells are pretty harmless, I don't mind the minor weighting of "it's traditional".

Rough Sleeper · 26-06-2015 10:31AM

Zara Unimportant Newspaper wrote: »

In before the militant atheists and their blasphemous and totally disrespectful drivel.

Of course it should be kept is the answer, its important that our national broadcaster sets aside time for the catholic faith it a country where the majority of the population are catholic and Catholicism is the national faith.

If you don't like it tough, not my problem people are foolish enough to cast their catholic faith aside.

The constitution says the state should not bestow favour on any one religion, and RTE aren't supposed to promote any one faith over another.

It's not a particularly important issue and I wouldn't really care if it stayed there till the day I die. Bigger things to worry about. But they should get rid of it. People laugh at those saying it should be axed because it's not a big deal. I'd be pretty certain that if they revealed plans to remove it you'd see a really big ****ing deal being made of it.

Chris_Bradley · 26-06-2015 10:31AM

Looking forward to the day when all that BS is part of the past.

Universal Nation my ass.

The Backwards Man · 26-06-2015 10:31AM

Doesn't annoy me because I ignore it, as I ignore all examples of Roman Catholic influence, dwindling as they are.What does annoy me a wee bit is the militant Catholics shouting down any opinion that doesn't match their own, claiming that it this is a Catholic country for Catholic people. That disgusts me just as much as the Protestant country for a Protestant people mantra, moreso maybe, as they are talking about the country I live in.

AdamB · 26-06-2015 10:31AM

As a child 25 odd years ago - first gong of the angelus = mad dash and scramble looking for the remote to flick over to Network2 for Jo-Maxi or some sort.

Today if by accident RTE1 is on at 6pm - first gong of the angelus = mad dash and search for remote to flick on any other.

VinLieger · 26-06-2015 10:32AM

You know what else was considered a harmless tradition? Ignoring the wrong doing's of the church for decades and allowing children to suffer because of it

Samaris · 26-06-2015 10:33AM

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

The constitution says the state should not bestow favour on any one religion, and RTE aren't supposed to promote any one faith over another.

It's not a particularly important issue and I wouldn't really care if it stayed there till the day I die. Bigger things to worry about. But they should get rid of it. People laugh at those saying it should be axed because it's not a big deal. I'd be pretty certain that if they revealed plans to remove it you'd see a really big ****ing deal being made of it.

That is a good reason against it, that it does in some way contradict RTE's charter and the Constitution in terms of favouring a particular religion. I think there are much BIGGER issues than the Angelus, much as you just said, but it's a small indication of the same problem.

eamonnq · 26-06-2015 10:35AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

What about just open it as a 1 minute slot for Ireland's film makers to screen shorts ?

Think I might prefer the bells.

Dr_Bill · 26-06-2015 10:36AM

There should be a clear separation between Church & State.

The Angelus and the 6.01 has no place on our screens. RTE our State broadcaster should drop it immediately.

God forbid we should let our guard down and let the Church hold sway over the State ever again, least we forget the child sex abuse scandals at our pearl and their ilk.

jaykay74 · 26-06-2015 10:37AM

No problem with people and their religions, gives them something to do as they pass the time. I'd prefer it to be personally driven though rather than centrally funded by all taxpayers.

Kev W · 26-06-2015 10:40AM

SpaceTime wrote: »

What about just open it as a 1 minute slot for Ireland's film makers to screen shorts ?

That might be actually useful and you need something less bloody dreary before hearing the latest from RTE news on who's corruptly going to cause you yet more misery.

Inspire a bit of creativity instead of a dreary, dogmatic religious thing.

RTE actually supporting genuine creativity? I can't see it happening.

Kalman · 26-06-2015 10:41AM

Grayson wrote: »

I voted to get rid of it but I do have a bit of nostalgia for it. I was always filmed in the town I lived in so I'd occasionally recognise someone from it.

As you claimed, you voted to be rid of it, but on the other hand you harbour nostalgia for it>>[I'm puzzled] [That's your decision, I'm not disputing that]
However, if you feel that way, then perhaps you should have gave careful thought before committing yourself.

Agricola · 26-06-2015 10:42AM

It's a bit like wheeling out the President before every match. Nice and twee and part of the history but I think it's time we just move on into the 21st century like everyone else.

Kev W · 26-06-2015 10:43AM

Kalman wrote: »

As you claimed, you voted to be rid of it, but on the other hand you harbour nostalgia for it>>[I'm puzzled] [That's your decision, I'm not disputing that]
However, if you feel that way, then perhaps you should have gave careful thought before committing yourself.

I think you can have nostalgia for a thing while still recognising it as flawed or outdated. I have nostalgia for the 1990s but I wouldn't want to relive them.

RobertKK · 26-06-2015 10:45AM

I wish one of my concerns was 'should the Angelus bells toll on RTE'....

Kev W · 26-06-2015 10:46AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I wish one of my concerns was 'should the Angelus bells toll on RTE'....

I wish one of mine was "are people discussing the Angelus".

And it is.

I win!

alchemist33 · 26-06-2015 10:49AM

Samaris wrote: »

I may not be particularly interested in Catholicism, but I can't really deny it's part of what the country was built on, and I don't see that one minute of bonging is really that traumatic to anyone.

That kinda depends on the person you're bonging.

catallus · 26-06-2015 10:53AM

As an uplifting reminder of our nature, I would hope it lasts a very long time.

However, the replies on-thread are not very surprising; a nest of nescience has developed in modern culture which abhors any self-reflection; so when anyone or anything asks us to look inside ourselves we lack the tools to do so; and so we can only dimly see a naked animal, writhing in an agony we dare not know; we refuse to own it, to recognise it as ourselves.

Is it any surprise the usual reaction is a glib, terrified "Kill it with fire!!!!, smiley face"?

Kev W · 26-06-2015 10:55AM

catallus wrote: »

As an uplifting reminder of our nature, I would hope it lasts a very long time.

However, the replies on-thread are not very surprising; a nest of nescience has developed in modern culture which abhors any self-reflection; so when anyone or anything asks us to look inside ourselves we lack the tools to do so; and so we can only dimly see a naked animal, writhing in an agony we dare not know; we refuse to own it, to recognise it as ourselves.

Is it any surprise the usual reaction is a glib, terrified "Kill it with fire!!!!, smiley face"?

Several people have suggested keeping the moment of reflection but removing the religious element.

anncoates · 26-06-2015 10:59AM

It needs to be scrapped and hopefully will be in the future, but it doesn't really annoy me incredibly. I just switch it over on the quite rare occasion I've chanced upon it.

Tiddlypeeps · 26-06-2015 11:00AM

I'd have no problem with it if the church had to purchase advertising slots from RTE and they were subject to competition with everyone else for those slots. I've no real problem with the angelus being run on TV, it's no more annoying than those bloody go compare ad's. I do have a problem with a religious agency receiving preferential treatment from a state funded body, it really flies in the face of the whole seperation of church and state thing.

catallus · 26-06-2015 11:01AM

Kev W wrote: »

Several people have suggested keeping the moment of reflection but removing the religious element.

Yes. I think this is called "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face."

Kev W · 26-06-2015 11:02AM

catallus wrote: »

Yes. I think this is called "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face."

How so?

faceman · 26-06-2015 11:06AM

Genuine question. Why is it considered overly religious?

Kev W · 26-06-2015 11:08AM

faceman wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is it considered overly religious?

Swiped from Wikipedia:
"The Angelus (/ˈændʒələs/; Latin for "angel") is a Catholic devotion commemorating the Incarnation. As with many Catholic prayers, the name Angelus is derived from its incipit: Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariæ ("... the Angel of the Lord declared unto Mary ...") and is practised by reciting as versicle and response three Biblical verses narrating the mystery; alternating with the prayer "Hail Mary". The Angelus exemplifies a species of prayers called the "prayer of the devotee".[1]

The devotion was traditionally recited in Roman Catholic churches, convents, and monasteries three times daily: 6:00 am, noon, and 6:00 pm (many churches still follow the devotion, and some practise it at home).[2] The devotion is also used by some Anglican and Lutheran churches.

The Angelus is usually accompanied by the ringing of the Angelus bell, which is a call to prayer and to spread good-will to everyone. The angel referred to in the prayer is Gabriel, a messenger of God who revealed to Mary that she would conceive a child to be born the Son of God. (Luke 1:26–38)."

Tiddlypeeps · 26-06-2015 11:09AM

faceman wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is it considered overly religious?

Are you genuinely unaware of what the angelus is, or are you trying to claim it's not religious?

VinLieger · 26-06-2015 11:10AM

faceman wrote: »

Genuine question. Why is it considered overly religious?

Any state funded broadcasting that favours one religion over all others is overly religious imo, either do one for every religion or do it for none, a minutes reflection with no religious symbolism whatsoever would be fine

The Backwards Man · 26-06-2015 11:12AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Are you genuinely unaware of what the angelus is, or are you trying to claim it's not religious?

I think he's saying it's not overly religious, as it's not particularly impacting on the lives of us non adherents.

murpho999 · 26-06-2015 11:24AM

Samaris wrote: »

So, there's been some fussing over whether or not the Angelus bells should be removed from RTE so Catholicism doesn't get unfair representation or something. It's offensive anyway, or potentially so. RTE seem to have come down against removing it entirely, but they'll make it more inclusive.

What do people think about this?

I reckon my view on it is that it's an old tradition, it doesn't do any harm and it's part of our history. Although I'm glad the tradition of stopping whatever you're doing to look towards the nearest Church when the bells start bonging has stopped. Honestly, the old shots used to look like we were a nation of programmed robots. Must have been quite creepy to anyone who didn't know what was going on.

I may not be particularly interested in Catholicism, but I can't really deny it's part of what the country was built on, and I don't see that one minute of bonging is really that traumatic to anyone.

I never get this viewpoint. Sometimes things are wrong and it has to change.

There was a time that slavery was viewed by the majority as correct and doing no harm.

In Ireland, corporal punishment in school was viewed as normal and no harm etc.
Same applies to not having divorce, contraception etc.

On all these issues, society moves on and forms different opinions to their ancestors, as was recently shown in the marriage referendum. (Which the organisation behind the Angelus was against)

The country should officially be leaving behind it's Catholic ethos and it should not be promoted/broadcast by the state broadcaster. If people choose to follow a religion and it's practices then that's their own private decision.

Angelus Bells and the 6.01

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