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Muhammad cartoons will be aired on Dutch TV - Geert Wilders

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Comments

  • #32
    M5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    If your religion causes you to be more offended by a cartoon than the brutality by isis and in "westernised" Saudi Arabia then your religion deserves every bit of mockery it receives


  • #33
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't have the answer to that. It wasn't my point

    If god did create us, We are only working in the system he/she created and criticism is part of that or is god wrong ?


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,226 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why does anything then ? I would quite happily challenge any Christian sky wizard book for being out of date and out of touch with modern life.

    Challenging and taunting are different things.


  • #35
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Challenging and taunting are different things.

    You cannot challenge a particular brand without being labelled a phob.


  • #36
    Very Bored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Who says Muslims aren't offended by ISIS? Many Muslim states work very hard to prevent and crush terrorism. Some Muslims join ISIS, but then some Germans joined the Nazi Party. It didn't mean all Germans thought or think Hitler was a good idea. Neither does it mean all Muslims think ISIS is a good idea.

    There's more to this cartoon thing than we interpret. As I said, Billy Connolly has taken the p out of Muslims. He absolutely ridiculed many of their customs and beliefs. I don't remember him receiving any death threats or being shot at. So, why do the cartoons offend when he didn't? I don't know what it is but there is more too it than we assume.

    I'll try to find the video of Billy Connolly... to be honest, what he's saying strikes me as more offensive than a cartoon but obviously, for Muslims, its not. Same thing with Jim Jeffries.


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  • #37
    M5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Who says Muslims aren't offended by ISIS? Many Muslim states work very hard to prevent and crush terrorism. Some Muslims join ISIS, but then some Germans joined the Nazi Party. It didn't mean all Germans thought or think Hitler was a good idea. Neither does it mean all Muslims think ISIS is a good idea.

    There's more to this cartoon thing than we interpret. As I said, Billy Connolly has taken the p out of Muslims. He absolutely ridiculed many of their customs and beliefs. I don't remember him receiving any death threats or being shot at. So, why do the cartoons offend when he didn't? I don't know what it is but there is more too it than we assume.

    I'll try to find the video of Billy Connolly... to be honest, what he's saying strikes me as more offensive than a cartoon but obviously, for Muslims, its not.

    I don't see mass protests when journalists are beheaded or women are stoned for being raped. One silly cartoon and the Muslim world goes bananas! Actions speak louder than words


  • #38
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    M5 wrote: »
    I don't see mass protests when journalists are beheaded or women are stoned for being raped. One silly cartoon and the Muslim world goes bananas! Actions speak louder than words

    I find it ironic these people going on about letting their relatives leave the UK and not stopping them and also saying stop monitoring them.


  • #39
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    I like Geert Wilders but this is seems unnecessary, frivolous and even counter-productive to the end of raising awareness about Islamic extremism. Time and resources could be expended more productively in policy campaigns.


  • #40
    Very Bored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    M5 wrote: »
    I don't see mass protests when journalists are beheaded or women are stoned for being raped. One silly cartoon and the Muslim world goes bananas! Actions speak louder than words

    Ever noticed its the lunatic fringe that goes bananas? To say all Muslims go bananas over this simply isn't true.

    Watch this video of Billy Connolly... http://tune.pk/video/3051439/billy-connolly-a-laugh-at-islam

    Now, I was nearly falling on the floor laughing the first time I saw it, but you've got to admit its far more offensive than any silly cartoon. At least it is to us. But no protest, nothing. Why? As I said, there must be something more to the reaction over the cartoons.


  • #41
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Ever noticed its the lunatic fringe that goes bananas? To say all Muslims go bananas over this simply isn't true.

    Watch this video of Billy Connolly... http://tune.pk/video/3051439/billy-connolly-a-laugh-at-islam

    Now, I was nearly falling on the floor laughing the first time I saw it, but you've got to admit its far more offensive than any silly cartoon. At least it is to us. But no protest, nothing. Why? As I said, there must be something more to the reaction over the cartoons.

    Drawing and art and alike are not accepted at all as far as i know. Spoken word can be tolerated.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Afaik, to all who refer to jokes about Islam, it is not humour that is the main issue, but making a picture of Muhammed. Billy Connolly and Jim Jeffries and others may tell jokes, but that's not as offensive to the fanatics as creating an image.


  • #43
    Very Bored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Afaik, to all who refer to jokes about Islam, it is not humour that is the main issue, but making a picture of Muhammed. Billy Connolly and Jim Jeffries and others may tell jokes, but that's not as offensive to the fanatics as creating an image.

    Exactly my point. So its almost impossible for us to understand their mindset because, for example, someone drawing a cartoon and someone mocking us is not the same, the mocking is far more offensive to us.


  • #44
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Exactly my point. So its almost impossible for us to understand their mindset because, for example, someone drawing a cartoon and someone mocking us is not the same, the mocking is far more offensive to us.

    My beliefs are not so fragile.


  • #45
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    If you are offended by cartoons then get the hell out of Europe. You are not welcome here.


  • #46
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭PressRun


    I never really understand the intention behind these kinds of cartoons. What are they hoping to achieve by doing it? Is it supposed to be satire? Because if it is, it's not very good. The best satire punches up, not down, and regardless of whatever the likes of Wilders believe, Muslims are not powerful in western societies. They're virtually voiceless, in fact, and that marginalization is something the likes of ISIS have capitalized on, tbh. People like this guy are actually probably a pretty great promotional tool for Islamic extremists as they can point to people like him and say "Look, these westerners don't respect or value you, your culture or your faith! Come and join us and you won't have to put up with it!"

    The whole thing honestly just sounds like an outlet for some bigots to take shots at a community they don't like, and in turn just feeds into the marginalization of Muslim communities that has in part given rise to the number of young western Muslims taking off to Syria and Iraq in search of "better things".


  • #47
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    PressRun wrote: »
    I never really understand the intention behind these kinds of cartoons. What are they hoping to achieve by doing it? Is it supposed to be satire? Because if it is, it's not very good. The best satire punches up, not down, and regardless of whatever the likes of Wilders believe, Muslims are not powerful in western societies. They're virtually voiceless, in fact, and that marginalization is something the likes of ISIS have capitalized on, tbh. People like this guy are actually probably a pretty great promotional tool for Islamic extremists as they can point to people like him and say "Look, these westerners don't respect or value you, your culture or your faith! Come and join us and you won't have to put up with it!"

    The whole thing honestly just sounds like an outlet for some bigots to take shots at a community they don't like, and in turn just feeds into the marginalization of Muslim communities that has in part given rise to the number of young western Muslims taking off to Syria and Iraq in search of "better things".
    Okay, so people can mock Christians and Jews and it's no big deal. Mock muslims and they want you dead...

    Why are you defending this bull****?


  • #48
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    I'm against mocking someone's religion, but I don't see why they should be that hypersensitive over the drawing of an image. It doesn't even have to be an offensive image either afaik, just the image itself.

    The argument that they shouldn't show those cartoons in case something bad happens just sounds like cowardice to me. I'd have hated to be in the trenches with those surrender-monkeys, waving a white flag before a shot's even been fired.


  • #49
    dlouth15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭dlouth15


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Afaik, to all who refer to jokes about Islam, it is not humour that is the main issue, but making a picture of Muhammed. Billy Connolly and Jim Jeffries and others may tell jokes, but that's not as offensive to the fanatics as creating an image.
    Also novels like Satanic Verses.


  • #50
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    Stupid stupid idea. I'm sorry but why provoke these guys? Just leave them to it. Like poking a bear with a stick and then being surprised when the thing mauls you to death.

    Tbh, and maybe I'm being cynical, but sometimes I think these people are being deliberately provocative in the hopes that something actually will happen and it'll give them the opportunity to say "I told you so".


  • #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    MathDebater wrote: »
    What were the motives of the Charlie Hebdo murderers if not a few cartoons?

    The Charlie Hebdo lads had a go at everyone, perfectly legitmate political/social satire. Dear geert (a) isn't a cartoonist and (b) seems a bit fixated with one religion and those of darker hued skin.


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  • #52
    PressRun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭PressRun


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Okay, so people can mock Christians and Jews and it's no big deal. Mock muslims and they want you dead...

    Why are you defending this bull****?

    Defending what? And where did I say it was okay to mock Christians or Jews? You're getting riled up over nothing.

    I just question the motives of the people behind these kinds of cartoons. They're being deliberately provocative for a reason, and I don't think it's as noble a reason as you think it is.


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    PressRun wrote: »
    Tbh, and maybe I'm being cynical, but sometimes I think these people are being deliberately provocative in the hopes that something actually will happen and it'll give them the opportunity to say "I told you so".

    With wilders and the crowd in Texas, I'd say you were correct. Some gobshite will doubtless oblige him, thus allowing him some smug gloating and a few more press conferences.


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Okay, so people can mock Christians and Jews and it's no big deal. Mock muslims and they want you dead...

    Why are you defending this bull****?

    But that's part of their core belief.

    It's like saying that many Christians find abortion horrific and some will fire bomb clinics and kill doctors. It cannot be explained to, say, Muslims who have no huge issue with it as they confer no particular status to a foetus before 4 months.


  • #55
    dlouth15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭dlouth15


    I think when some people say they are against mocking someones religion they really mean that they are against mocking someone's religion if members of that religion are willing to commit acts of murder when offended. Hence they are not against South Park mocking the Mormon religion since Mormons don't generally take up automatic weapons when their religion is mocked. They are not against Monty Python's Life of Brian because there's no threat of murder for the filmmakers.


  • #56
    folamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 787 ✭✭✭folamh


    Nodin wrote: »
    The Charlie Hebdo lads had a go at everyone, perfectly legitmate political/social satire. Dear geert (a) isn't a cartoonist and (b) seems a bit fixated with one religion and those of darker hued skin.
    That's very disingenuous. Just because he doesn't like Islam, doesn't mean he's racist. Some of his closest friends and colleagues are black, including Ayaan Hirsi Ali.


  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PressRun wrote: »
    Tbh, and maybe I'm being cynical, but sometimes I think these people are being deliberately provocative in the hopes that something actually will happen and it'll give them the opportunity to say "I told you so".

    Yep.

    They are hijacking freedom of speech. Which of course should be exercised responsibly. There is no need for these cartoons. The right to free speech can be exercised in many ways that stop short of going out to provoke and offend.


  • #58
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    As a staunch aethiest I commend the mocking of all and any religions equally. Tis a brave man who mocks Muhammed. It is a great way to ensure you live in fear for the rest of your life.

    It is also a great way to expose the radicalised few that are a danger to all so they can be dealt with.


  • #59
    fleet_admiral
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭fleet_admiral


    Durka durka


  • #60
    Massimo Cassagrande
    Closed Accounts Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Massimo Cassagrande


    MathDebater wrote: »
    What were the motives of the Charlie Hebdo murderers if not a few cartoons?

    Some cynical souls would say forwarding a political agenda and discrediting an entire religion, but sure what would them nutters know??


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  • #61
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    folamh wrote: »
    That's very disingenuous. Just because he doesn't like Islam, doesn't mean he's racist. Some of his closest friends and colleagues are black, including Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

    Well, he is part Indonesian (his mother). It undoubtedly mixes up the Anglophone bipolar view that he is right vs left wing, being non-Caucasian himself, but with white skin, and having lived in a country which is decades ahead of lefty Ireland and so he might actually know what he is talking about, from his experience. I think he is against the extremism from Islam being integrated violently into for the most part peaceful Dutch society, which includes completely peaceful people who are Muslim, who support him. In the same way that the IRA did not speak for all of the Republic, Islamic extremists do not speak for all of Islam, but if you follow the Anglo view, it is easy to be trapped in the either pro or anti, black or white, with no middle ground. You are Irish therefore you are IRA was the British view in the 70s. Now, if you are Muslim you are an Islamic extremist. It is important to differentiate, and focus on the extremists, not the political view they espouse, which for 99% is non violent.

    And Je Suis Charlie, freedom of speech eh. If it is not for a balance in politics, the first people up against the execution wall are the gays and trannies who have been dominating Ireland's news, but who would not last long in a Sharia law Dublin.

    In fact, the white heterosexual men have little to lose with Sharia, save probably a circumcision. Geert Wilders is actually trying to defend a society that supports freedom from persecution including sexuality, religion, pot smoking, etc.,. How about a little support for the cis-genders standing up for the freedoms that minority groups seem to now take for granted,.


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