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This fat girl runs, breathes and believes

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    A total up and down week for me...started badly, got worse then improved in such a fast turnaround that I got whiplash!

    Monday: Workout with my trainer, mostly weights for upper body and back. Cut short by half an hour due to a dodgy stomach. Seriously, I made it home just in time before I unleashed hell! If there's a patron saint of making it to the toilet in time, I would like to thank them!

    Wednesday: 5 mile hard run in 1:09:21. I only realised yesterday that I ran the wrong week of my training plan! This should have been a 4 mile run. Oops!

    Thursday: 6 mile easy run that wasn't. This is by far the worst run I've had in the history of my running. It was so bad I'm not going to even give my time. A combination of tiredness, heat and chafing had me walking by mile 4 and crawling by mile 5. The even worse part was realizing later that it was the wrong distance, I was only supposed to go 5 miles. This wasn't a total write off as I DID cover a full 6 miles but I'd rather forget this one and move on!

    Saturday: Workout with my trainer. HIIT on the spinning bike for over 20 minutes, pilates and arm work.

    Sunday: LSR of 9 miles in 2:14:24. My first 9 mile run and I really enjoyed it! I started out more slowly than usual as it was quite warm out and I wasn't sure of the distance. By mile 6 I felt much more confident and settled into my usual easy pace. I ran about 3 miles of this on grass and that was fun. Given the bad start to the week and terrible run mid-week, this was just the run I needed. I got to see more of the Phoenix Park that I don't normally see and ended the run still feeling energized. And yes, 9 miles WAS on the schedule!

    Total mileage: 20 miles

    Next week I will run the correct schedule! 5 + 5 + 9 miles. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 391 ✭✭frankie2shoes


    great progress.Keep up the good work


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I know it's been pointed out before but something is definitely out of sync there - hard pace is only a minute faster than slow pace. I reckon that has to be addressed. What did the coach say about it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Murph_D wrote: »
    I know it's been pointed out before but something is definitely out of sync there - hard pace is only a minute faster than slow pace. I reckon that has to be addressed. What did the coach say about it?

    Actually, it was my race pace that was the problem. My hard pace was faster than race pace! I will be correcting that on my next race :D

    My easy run should be a minute slower than my hard run so everything there is fine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    My easy run should be a minute slower than my hard run so everything there is fine.

    OK. That does not gel with my understanding of hard vs slow pace at all (I prefer to think of slow as at least a minute slower than marathon pace, not hard pace.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭RonanP77


    Murph_D wrote:
    OK. That does not gel with my understanding of hard vs slow pace at all (I prefer to think of slow as at least a minute slower than marathon pace, not hard pace.


    So are you saying the slow pace is too fast? It's probably not possible to slow it down much more without walking?

    Or are you saying to speed up the fast runs? If that's going to be too tough then now is not the time to start that, with marathon training kicking off in the next week or so.

    My LSR and easy pace are both around the same 6:10-6:45/km and my tempo pace is about a minute faster. I don't really do any hard runs, is hard similar to race pace? If so it would be about another 30 sec - a min /km faster than tempo.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Probably hard to judge the slower pace since, as TFGR has mentioned she'd be at walking pace if she slowed them down. I would suspect perhaps the hard pace isn't hard enough.
    Though I'm not sure what a 5 mile 'hard' run entails? It strikes me as an odd session I'm not sure what the rationale behind doing this is? Is it a tempo run? I don't read every week but do you ever do intervals TFGR?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    RonanP77 wrote: »
    So are you saying the slow pace is too fast? It's probably not possible to slow it down much more without walking?

    Or are you saying to speed up the fast runs? If that's going to be too tough then now is not the time to start that, with marathon training kicking off in the next week or so.

    My LSR and easy pace are both around the same 6:10-6:45/km and my tempo pace is about a minute faster. I don't really do any hard runs, is hard similar to race pace? If so it would be about another 30 sec - a min /km faster than tempo.

    I think context is the issue.

    Looking at it the interpretation of hard here may be causing issue for many. Its a very ambiguous term that means different things to different people.

    Looking at this week for example the hard run would be the equivalent to 10k race pace. I would say that the pace is fine, it's the duration that is the issue. That is effectively running a 50 minute tempo so while the pace is right the duration is too long that pushes this into too high an intensity run. TFGR you will actually get more benefit from your hard run by either slowing it down a fraction or cutting it in half and doing a mile warm up and cooldown instead (if you are worried about getting the volume), you are actually working twice as hard with 1/4 of the base of most which will leave you under recovered and under prepared.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    RonanP77 wrote: »

    My LSR and easy pace are both around the same 6:10-6:45/km and my tempo pace is about a minute faster. I don't really do any hard runs, is hard similar to race pace? If so it would be about another 30 sec - a min /km faster than tempo.

    Your tempo pace is about a minute/km faster, not a minute/mile. 1 min/km is 1:37/mile.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    P&D say 'easy' pace is between 10/15% slower than marathon pace. So for me for instance, my marathon pace prior to London was 7.30 per mile, so my easy pace was anywhere between 8.15 and 8.55


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭eldiva


    Well done on the mini marathon. It seems like you've gotten plenty of advice regarding your pace. I noticed you're doing a fair bit of gym work which includes HIT on the spin bike and upper body work. What exercises are you doing and are you doing any lower body exercises?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    eldiva wrote: »
    Well done on the mini marathon. It seems like you've gotten plenty of advice regarding your pace. I noticed you're doing a fair bit of gym work which includes HIT on the spin bike and upper body work. What exercises are you doing and are you doing any lower body exercises?

    Thanks! I usually do leg work on Mondays, lots of squats and weight moves for the posterior chain. Including some pilates moves but with weights i.e reverse crunch with a weight between my feet. Some resistance moves too with a resistance band. We tried doing legs/lower body on Saturdays but my LSR on Sunday suffered so we moved legs to Monday. It was a good move! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Probably hard to judge the slower pace since, as TFGR has mentioned she'd be at walking pace if she slowed them down. I would suspect perhaps the hard pace isn't hard enough.
    Though I'm not sure what a 5 mile 'hard' run entails? It strikes me as an odd session I'm not sure what the rationale behind doing this is? Is it a tempo run? I don't read every week but do you ever do intervals TFGR?

    No, right now I don't run intervals. The last time I tried that, I got some incredulous responses on my log about it; it seemed people thought it was pointless for me to even try. :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    No, right now I don't run intervals. The last time I tried that, I got some incredulous responses on my log about it; it seemed people thought it was pointless for me to even try. :p

    you stopped doing it because some people questioned you about it ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    PaulieC wrote: »
    you stopped doing it because some people questioned you about it ?

    If memory serves me the discussion was surrounding the pros (and cons) of doing intervals while building up to marathon training and the fact that concentrating on building endurance with longer miles might be more beneficial. Its an interesting debate if you go back a few pages you should find it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭PaulieC


    Firedance wrote: »
    If memory serves me the discussion was surrounding the pros (and cons) of doing intervals while building up to marathon training and the fact that concentrating on building endurance with longer miles might be more beneficial. Its an interesting debate if you go back a few pages you should find it.

    but why engage the services of a running coach ? Surely the coach knows best ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    PaulieC wrote: »
    but why engage the services of a running coach ? Surely the coach knows best ?

    possibly, but if you take this forum alone opinions are varied, some folks swear by X while others will say no way Y is the way to go. One way to look at it is that you get different perspectives and the OP has taken some advice from here and then discussed it with her coach. She will tell you that herself I think. IMO its good to get a variety of view points and then you can make your own mind up (along with your coach if you have one) as to what will work for you having all the relevant information. Sorry for the hijack TFGR!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    Firedance wrote: »
    If memory serves me the discussion was surrounding the pros (and cons) of doing intervals while building up to marathon training and the fact that concentrating on building endurance with longer miles might be more beneficial. Its an interesting debate if you go back a few pages you should find it.
    No, right now I don't run intervals. The last time I tried that, I got some incredulous responses on my log about it; it seemed people thought it was pointless for me to even try. :p

    Had a look back on the previous comments and I think you may have misunderstood the reason people were questioning the use of intervals. It was not that it was pointless but rather that the intensity and duration of these intervals did not suit for the purpose required.

    The biggest limiting factors you will have in the upcoming marathon are your aerobic endurance and making sure that your body is able to handle the stresses bio-mechanically.

    Muscular fatigue will kick into muscles compromising form after a certain point putting your body under a great amount of stress so it is important that the muscles are able to cope with this to the point where injury won't result.

    The good news is that the weights work will go a long way towards building up the muscular strength and endurance. Aside from this the muscles need to be exposed to time working specifically for the demands required of them (i.e the muscle action of running) this is where time on feet will kick in, coupled with working your aerobic capacity to the point where your heart can manage to sufficiently supply the muscles with oxygen required throughout the event.

    Intervals can serve a purpose in many training plans (varying lengths and intensities) but ultimately short high intensity sprints here would be a bit like a Soccer forward training as a goalkeeper, there may be some transference of benefits but ultimately there are better ways to improve your goal scoring record.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Firedance wrote: »
    possibly, but if you take this forum alone opinions are varied, some folks swear by X while others will say no way Y is the way to go. One way to look at it is that you get different perspectives and the OP has taken some advice from here and then discussed it with her coach. She will tell you that herself I think. IMO its good to get a variety of view points and then you can make your own mind up (along with your coach if you have one) as to what will work for you having all the relevant information. Sorry for the hijack TFGR!!

    You pretty much said it perfectly right there!

    Don't forget my coach is also writing my training plan, which I did not have the confidence to do on my own. None of the generic plans available suited me and even the boards plan is a tad too ambitious for me. My coach is taking all my stats/info/abilities into account while she develops my plan. So far, it's worked beautifully and I've progressed to 19 miles per week with no injury.

    So I can have a coach, and talk about running with other runners at the same time, and it all works out ok in the end!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    One of my better weeks, all things considered!

    Monday: Workout with my trainer. Took it easy on the legs to recover from my LSR the previous day. Did HIIT on the bike plus pilates and weights

    Wednesday: 5 mile hard run in 1:08:05. Really interesting run as I had accidentally pressed the 'lap' button on my Garmin so it was counting laps at .80 of a mile instead of a mile which threw the pace out. I had to calculate my pace in my head as I was running and go from there. I usually joke that I'm allergic to maths because I'm really shockingly bad at maths. But, I managed to not only figure out my pace but also managed to stick to it! I'm delighted!

    Friday: 5 mile easy run in 1:16:27. This was a warm, wet run what with the drizzle and all. My shoes felt like they were slipping a bit on the pavement, I alternated between running on the path and on the grass. Took it a little slower tonight as I didn't want to slip and fall!

    Saturday: Workout, half an hour on the bike (10 min warm up, 20 mins HIIT) with 30 mins weights for arms and core

    Sunday: 9 mile LSR in 2:14:36 Really enjoyed this run; I went out at 10am so it was still cool. That helped! It was windy but at my turn around point the wind was at my back and that was lovely and refreshing. I felt really strong on this run, didn't struggle at all and felt I had enough energy the whole way.

    Total mileage: 19 plus 4 or so miles for warm ups/cool downs.

    Next week will see a drop in mileage from me as I rest up for the Irish Runner 5 mile on Saturday! I'm looking forward to the rest, I feel I've earned it!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    One of my better weeks, all things considered!

    Monday: Workout with my trainer. Took it easy on the legs to recover from my LSR the previous day. Did HIIT on the bike plus pilates and weights

    Wednesday: 5 mile hard run in 1:08:05. Really interesting run as I had accidentally pressed the 'lap' button on my Garmin so it was counting laps at .80 of a mile instead of a mile which threw the pace out. I had to calculate my pace in my head as I was running and go from there. I usually joke that I'm allergic to maths because I'm really shockingly bad at maths. But, I managed to not only figure out my pace but also managed to stick to it! I'm delighted!

    Friday: 5 mile easy run in 1:16:27. This was a warm, wet run what with the drizzle and all. My shoes felt like they were slipping a bit on the pavement, I alternated between running on the path and on the grass. Took it a little slower tonight as I didn't want to slip and fall!

    Saturday: Workout, half an hour on the bike (10 min warm up, 20 mins HIIT) with 30 mins weights for arms and core

    Sunday: 9 mile LSR in 2:14:36 Really enjoyed this run; I went out at 10am so it was still cool. That helped! It was windy but at my turn around point the wind was at my back and that was lovely and refreshing. I felt really strong on this run, didn't struggle at all and felt I had enough energy the whole way.

    Total mileage: 19 plus 4 or so miles for warm ups/cool downs.

    Next week will see a drop in mileage from me as I rest up for the Irish Runner 5 mile on Saturday! I'm looking forward to the rest, I feel I've earned it!

    Add in those warm-up miles, girl. They all count, and God knows you don't need to be minimising your mileage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    ^^^^+100! :D

    Obviously you and S have worked out a taper that you both feel comfortable with but don't sacrifice too much running (let the gym work take a hit if anything). And remember, sleep is the best rest and recovery you can give yourself so early bed all week and no surfing or Netflix in bed :)
    Well done on everything so far, you've got yourself to start line #1 just as you predicted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Alright! Race report from today's Irish Runner 5 mile race is up on my blog! I'm posting the highlights here for anyone interested.


    Mile 0-1: Was pretty good, not too congested and I was able to keep to the pace I wanted. It was hot though! Really hot despite the wind and for the first time in my running life I was grateful for some wind in my face! I was also really happy when I got to run in the shade! Other than that, mile 1 was pretty easy. I really appreciated two enthusiastic cheerers standing on Chesterfield Ave. You made me laugh and that really helped!

    Mile 1-2: Pretty uneventful really except that I realized my Garmin wasn’t marking the mile with the course markers, it was beeping early. This threw me a bit because I didn’t know if that meant my pace was off. I decided to run a little bit faster just to be sure.

    Mile 2-3: This was my favourite mile, partly because there was shade, partly because there was a downhill stretch but mostly because I saw three deer running alongside the route. It was a stunning moment and I wished I could have taken a photo. But, I was racing and chasing a PB so I restrained myself and carried on running. I don’t think I’ll forget that moment anytime soon though.

    Mile 3-4: Probably the toughest mile as it included the dreaded first hill. I was doing fairly ok for time and feeling really good coming up to it, so I kept on running, although at a slower pace. I made it up the hill and didn’t feel like collapsing so that was good!

    Mile 4-5: This mile was the hardest in terms of heat, not a lot of shade and the wind was against me so I had to struggle against that too. There was also something going on around me that really annoyed me and I had to battle hard to ignore it. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from running; you need to be strong in mind as well as in body! Anyway, I passed the water station but didn’t take any as I had my own water with me. I also knew I was slowing down some and so needed to save on time! I ran up another hill then began to speed up until I was closer to the finish line. Saw some more deer on this stretch, they actually ran across the path in front of some other runners ahead of me. So cool! After that I sped up even more and really, really appreciated the huge crowd of people who were still cheering at the finish line, including my trainer, Michael of @myptdotie. Honestly, having a loud crowd cheering you on at the finish makes such a difference!

    I crossed the finish line in what I thought was good time but because my Garmin had been mis-marking the miles I wasn’t entirely sure if I had beat my previous time. I was going to have to wait for the official result! As I crossed the line I did feel like collapsing for a moment, I had really pushed hard over the last half mile so was really feeling it!

    Luckily I didn’t collapse so after collecting my goodie bag and mug I met up with Michael as we went to collect our bags. Afterwards we went back to his gym and did a half hour of stretching instead of doing a full PT session. It did me good!

    And, as it happens, I DID run a PB!

    I finished in 1:06:29, 2 minutes faster than my last 5 mile race and 7 minutes faster than the same race one year ago!

    This was pretty much the kind of time I was hoping for and again, it’s proof to me that my training is paying off and making a difference. It is a huge relief to see the tangible changes for the better that have come with the kind of hours I’ve been putting in running. It makes it all so worth while!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭spaceylou


    Well done on the pb, sounds like the heat was pretty tough in Dublin today


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    spaceylou wrote: »
    Well done on the pb, sounds like the heat was pretty tough in Dublin today

    Thanks!

    I just looked up the weather as I was curious...it was a high of 19 degrees today!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    A low mileage week for me but one that I really appreciated! The rest felt great and lazing around was rather luxurious!

    Monday: Workout with my PT. Took it easy on the legs to save them for Saturday's race.

    Wednesday: Easy 3 miles. Felt like a treat to run this one! Really enjoyed it and had to stop myself from running faster.

    Saturday: Irish Runner 5 mile race in 1:06:29. A new PB! :D No PT today, just a stretching session after the race (my trainer ran it too).

    Total mileage: 8 miles. Ok ok, more like 11 miles with warms up/cools downs.

    Next week I'm back to my usual routine with a planned 20 miles total. July I will be focusing on my next goal, the Rock n Roll half in August!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    What type of weekly mileage are you hoping to hit about 4 weeks out from DCM?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo


    Well, I'm not 100% today after being so sick the past week. But then, who ever IS fully 100% anyway?

    But my comeback run tonight was all I could have hoped for.

    5 miles. 1:06:32. Avg pace of 13:18.

    I'm back!

    Wednesday: 4 mile hard run in 51.42. Slowly shaving off time on these runs, though I still need a break now and then so not as good as I'd like to be.
    .

    Hi TFGR, I don't want to sound like a broken record but I'd still be quite concerned at your training paces based on Saturday's race.

    The first post I quoted is from 2 months ago and you seem to have done a standard 5 mile run at the same pace as Saturdays race?

    A few weeks after thay you have logged a 4 mile 'hard run' at a pace of below 13 minutes/mile, yet Saturdays race was about 20 seconds/mile slower.

    Tempo runs (or 'hard runs') are an important part of most training plans but it is important not to do them at your best possible pace, rather maybe 90%. Typically a 4 mile tempo should be done around you 10 mile pace; it certainly should never be faster than your 5 mile race pace or else you are just racing all your training runs.

    Perhaps the reason you feel you can only run 3 times per week is because your runs are all done so hard that you need more recovery?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Hi TFGR, I don't want to sound like a broken record but I'd still be quite concerned at your training paces based on Saturday's race.

    The first post I quoted is from 2 months ago and you seem to have done a standard 5 mile run at the same pace as Saturdays race?

    A few weeks after thay you have logged a 4 mile 'hard run' at a pace of below 13 minutes/mile, yet Saturdays race was about 20 seconds/mile slower.

    Tempo runs (or 'hard runs') are an important part of most training plans but it is important not to do them at your best possible pace, rather maybe 90%. Typically a 4 mile tempo should be done around you 10 mile pace; it certainly should never be faster than your 5 mile race pace or else you are just racing all your training runs.

    Perhaps the reason you feel you can only run 3 times per week is because your runs are all done so hard that you need more recovery?

    Hi meno, just to answer your questions.

    Firstly, I've worked hard the past two months to make sure I'm running the right paces, including slowing them down. You'll notice my 5 mile runs recently have been at the correct pace.

    My race pace for this 5 mile race was bang on what it should have been. 13min/mile.

    Keep in mind that my training run times don't include times I spent on autopause, waiting for a traffic light or doing my stretches after my warm up or taking a break for water or air or whatever. So even if it looks like it's the same as a race, it's not. Maybe I should be posting my 'time spent moving' as well? That 4 mile run you're referring too...I spent 52 minutes running but it took me an hour and 2 minutes to do. Looking at my Garmin stats I stopped 10 times. 8 of those times were for traffic lights.

    This 5 mile race I had no pauses or stops, it was a straight run from start to finish.

    Secondly, I run 3 days a week because I also workout in the gym 2 days a week and I value my 2 rest days so I take them and make the most of them. That's all. My recovery times are pretty good because I'm taking care with my stretching and doing all I can to make sure I don't get injured. So far, so good knock on wood!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭menoscemo



    Keep in mind that my training run times don't include times I spent on autopause, waiting for a traffic light or doing my stretches after my warm up or taking a break for water or air or whatever. So even if it looks like it's the same as a race, it's not. Maybe I should be posting my 'time spent moving' as well? That 4 mile run you're referring too...I spent 52 minutes running but it took me an 1 and 2 minutes to do. Looking at my Garmin stats I stopped 10 times. 8 of those times were for traffic lights.

    This 5 mile race I had no pauses or stops, it was a straight run from start to finish.

    That certainly changes things.
    While it makes little difference on easy runs or LSRs. I definitely suggest finding a traffic free, flat stretch for tempo runs and do them continuously. I know you run a lot in the PP, the paths around the pitches off acres Rd (opp Papal Cross) are great for this.

    I also think there is no harm in slowing down the easy runs, the easy run times are too close to race pace for me.


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