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Soccer Forum Feedback Thread 2015

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Million dollar question.

    Also any chance someone could answer about the mod complaint process before the thread is closed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    zerks wrote: »
    As I said,we had an issue before with a group of posters using Twitter to basically work out ways of getting other posters banned.A couple were permabanned but a few are still around and as soon as a poster gets a warning they are celebrating it.
    I'm sure mods know those who are constantly hitting report & I reckon the majority of stuff is ignored at this stage as they know the craic.We all see fans of other clubs popping into other threads looking for reasons to be offended,that's how this whole issue of the word "slippy" suddenly becoming an offensive term.It's as if come posters are stalking others just to find an excuse to report them.

    Every reported post creates a new thread in the reported post forum. Every single mod and admin can see these posts.
    It would eventually be spotted.
    Become friends with a mod so he will tell you, or become an admin so you can't be banned.
    If it happens it's eventually spotted


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    zerks wrote: »
    As I said,we had an issue before with a group of posters using Twitter to basically work out ways of getting other posters banned.A couple were permabanned but a few are still around and as soon as a poster gets a warning they are celebrating it.
    I'm sure mods know those who are constantly hitting report & I reckon the majority of stuff is ignored at this stage as they know the craic.We all see fans of other clubs popping into other threads looking for reasons to be offended,that's how this whole issue of the word "slippy" suddenly becoming an offensive term.It's as if come posters are stalking others just to find an excuse to report them.

    Cheers, sort of thought that was what your first post meant, but am amazed people can be bothered to organise themselves for something like that.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    zerks wrote: »
    As I said,we had an issue before with a group of posters using Twitter to basically work out ways of getting other posters banned.A couple were permabanned but a few are still around and as soon as a poster gets a warning they are celebrating it.
    I'm sure mods know those who are constantly hitting report & I reckon the majority of stuff is ignored at this stage as they know the craic.We all see fans of other clubs popping into other threads looking for reasons to be offended,that's how this whole issue of the word "slippy" suddenly becoming an offensive term.It's as if come posters are stalking others just to find an excuse to report them.


    I'd say you'll need solid proof for such as accusation.

    Once again bringing up your own yellow card goes against what the feedback is for. That's why DRP is there. Surely only a person who makes the post is accountable for their actions?


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Also any chance someone could answer about the mod complaint process before the thread is closed?
    Must have missed that one - where/what's been mentioned/requested on this?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Every reported post creates a new thread in the reported post forum. Every single mod and admin can see these posts.
    It would eventually be spotted.
    Become friends with a mod so he will tell you, or become an admin so you can't be banned.
    If it happens it's eventually spotted

    Would using a mods power to see these posts and disclosing said info not be seen as an abuse of their position?

    Speaking of mods,I'm sure it's been brought up before but couldn't certain issues be solved with a quick in thread warning if something crops up instead of cards and passing the buck by saying take it further and not engaging with posters.The issue would be solved there and then so everybody knows where they stand.Sure if it's serious,eg.Personal abuse then send it up higher but many are minor issues that just need a pm or in thread Mod note.

    As an example,I had an issue in another forum where a post was reported but 2 pm's later with the mod the issue was solved and the card was actually rescinded.This approach might actually help here.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    zerks wrote: »
    Would using a mods power to see these posts and disclosing said info not be seen as an abuse of their position?
    Absolutely - it is a clear rule that anyone with access to info from the mods forums must not divulge it to non-mods/non-Admins


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,944 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    zerks wrote: »
    As an example,I had an issue in another forum where a post was reported but 2 pm's later with the mod the issue was solved and the card was actually rescinded.This approach might actually help here.

    Speaking personally, I'd say a good 1/4 of the yellows I issue are rescinded. A lot more would probably be, if people didn't have a habit of responding to a card with abuse, conspiracy theories, responsibility dodging and blaming others.

    I'll also always try and issue in thread warnings first (I think all the mods would be like that), but there's only so many times specific people can get warnings before you have to escalate it. If someone is repeatedly falling foul of the same breach of charter, then you do lose patience and realise no amount of warnings will fix the problem. If someone continually ignores the warnings, there's not much point issuing another. If a problem keeps occuring, there's only so long before the cards have to come out :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Speaking personally, I'd say a good 1/4 of the yellows I issue are rescinded. A lot more would probably be, if people didn't have a habit of responding to a card with abuse, conspiracy theories, responsibility dodging and blaming others.


    I thought he was site banned;)

    It's just the fact that sometimes (even hours after the fact) that a card is handed out when it might be better to try to deal with an issue asap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    zerks wrote: »
    I'm sure mods know those who are constantly hitting report & I reckon the majority of stuff is ignored at this stage as they know the craic.

    This would be my concern.

    Humans are good at spotting patterns, so I am happy to assume that the mods are perfectly intelligent and so would indeed spot a pattern of the same old posters repeatedly reporting posts, if such a pattern exists.

    That being the case, I would then expect that they do not just ignore the reports because "they know the craic", but that they take action against people abusing the report function. Regular posters can roll their eyes and ignore malicious complainers but mods should be spotting what is in effect a form of bullying.

    Theres no way for me to know if any of this is happening, but if the mods know then I hope they would act upon it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,721 ✭✭✭Al Capwned


    Was it not already stated by someone on thread that words were had with poster(s) abusing the report function?

    Edit - yep, here it is.
    GavRedKing wrote: »
    People have been pulled up for "spamming" the report button before, its a very rare thing to happen though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,267 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    In thread warnings for me should only happen for certain incidents, like the Adam Johnson case recently for example, you dont want slander on the site so you'd want to warn people about their posting early doors so everyone knows where they stand. (I hope there was in thread warning, I'm just using it as an example off the top of my head).

    However, when it comes to match threads and super threads, people are here long enough to know whats not allowed so too many in thread warnings are, IMO, giving people the chance to get across tiny digs. Its like death by 1000 little cuts rather than a striking blow.

    I'm all for working things out via PM with users but as Lord TSC has said above, its not always easy to do that so it has to go to a DRP for CMod & Admin review and if it goes that far and by that time, 3 seperate individuals go against you, its probably not 3 people making 3 wrong calls, rather an individual issue at the source that a miniority of users dont learn from or take in board, rarely enough though IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    This would be my concern.

    Humans are good at spotting patterns, so I am happy to assume that the mods are perfectly intelligent and so would indeed spot a pattern of the same old posters repeatedly reporting posts, if such a pattern exists.

    That being the case, I would then expect that they do not just ignore the reports because "they know the craic", but that they take action against people abusing the report function. Regular posters can roll their eyes and ignore malicious complainers but mods should be spotting what is in effect a form of bullying.

    Theres no way for me to know if any of this is happening, but if the mods know then I hope they would act upon it.

    +1

    We've all seen match threads descend into farce and cards dished out while the original antagonists slink away,it's as if doing this is a badge of honour.Cause chaos,report posters who react and sit back to admire the anarchy.Mods should seriously look at serial post reporters.It puts people off posting and especially this year we've seen occassional posters pop in and end up declaring "this is why I rarely post here anymore".
    People want to voice their opinions without worrying over every phrase or sentence they use in case somebody deems it reportable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,267 ✭✭✭✭GavRedKing


    Al Capwned wrote: »
    Was it not already stated by someone on thread that words were had with poster(s) abusing the report function?

    I did and I'm not sure how many people it was over the years but its a tiny, tiny amount, somewhere between 2-5 people from my time on the Mod team and even 5 could be slightly higher than I remember correctly.

    The vast majority are reporting what they believe to be genuine issues and thats what you want and need in the forum or else things get overlooked.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do posters go into match thread break the charter and leave the thread? I find that hard to believe. Mods are on top of this and it's something that has been very much improved.

    If people stick to the charter and post in a decent fashion their post won't be reported in the first place.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,787 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    If a post is reported and acted on then the poster who reported it isn't usually the issue, post aren't actioned just because they're reported. If someone is abusing the reported post function it's usually fairly obvious, and fwiw it hardly ever happens anyway.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Just to add - sometimes the mods may miss something that is reported. Not everyone is around all the time (and mods actually sometimes like going to or watching matches without worrying about what's happening here). Often things don't get dealt with until well after a match, or the mods may think someone else has dealt with it. If after, say, 24 hours, you think something may have been missed, there's no harm in reporting a second time. Beyond that though please don't continue reporting in the hope someone may deal with something you have an issue with - if it remains a concern drop one of the mods a PM. They will hopefully get back to you reasonably quickly. Again though please don't keep banging on about something simply because you do not agree with a mod's view - if it's still bothering you at that stage, drop a PM to one of the CMods (probably better me as I keep more of an eye on what's going on around here that Sparks or Steve)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,946 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    rarnes1 wrote: »
    Do posters go into match thread break the charter and leave the thread?

    Of course they do, and not only match threads, unless you mean flagrant breaches of the charter rather than the far more insidious practice of dropping inflammatory posts and then sitting back to watch the mess.

    I can think of one poster who is notorious for doing this, both with individual posts and new threads. But he is still here, testament to his ability to walk a very fine line. If only us humans weren't so good at spotting those patterns...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,672 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    zerks wrote: »
    Speaking of mods,I'm sure it's been brought up before but couldn't certain issues be solved with a quick in thread warning if something crops up instead of cards and passing the buck by saying take it further and not engaging with posters.The issue would be solved there and then so everybody knows where they stand.Sure if it's serious,eg.Personal abuse then send it up higher but many are minor issues that just need a pm or in thread Mod note.

    As an example,I had an issue in another forum where a post was reported but 2 pm's later with the mod the issue was solved and the card was actually rescinded.This approach might actually help here.

    What sort of 'minor issues' are you talking about, can I ask?

    Also, mods normally do try to solve really minor issues with a thread warning or a PM. I do it all the time. but there is also the issue of some people just not learning.

    We can't just keep PM'ing, and doing thread warnings. there have to be consequences at some point.

    so yeah, what are these 'minor issues' you speak of?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    So it looks at this stage like the mod team have said all they're going to say on the cross-thread baiting issue. I have to say I'm dissapointed with the way this has been dealt with.

    I can understand that the mods think that banning all jokes about rival teams in superthreads is the way to go. I can believe that the mods feel that this is what the majority of the forum wants. But when it is such an extreme rule, to introduce it in such an underhanded way (subverting a new rule that posters had requested, so that it does something quite different from what they requested) is really poor form imo. I'm not saying that the mods set out on purpose to subvert this new rule to their own ends, but rather that they were extremely careless in how they implemented it and have failed to honestly review what has gone on.

    From the discussion I've had with the mods about the issue on this thread they don't even seem to be acknowledging that this is how the rule was introduced, but when asked directly they pass no comment on that question and offer no alternative explanation.

    This episode really does not inspire trust in the mod team to treat poster input on the charter with the proper care it needs. And the idea that the mods can introduce new, arbitrary and draconian rules to the charter without first having to run them past the forum users runs contrary to the whole idea of having community input on how the forum is modded.

    It's all very reminiscent of what happened with the Michael Jackson / popcorn gif rule when that was introduced. The fact that something so similar has happened again a year later shows that the current process for introducing new rules is badly flawed.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,754 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    Pro. F wrote: »
    I'm not denying that making jokes about rival teams in a superthread is an issue for some posters. If the posters wanted a ban on those jokes then they could have requested one and we could have discussed it before it was put in the charter.

    Do you deny that the rule that was requested by posters and agreed upon by the mods, was not requested with the intention of banning jokes about rival teams* in superthreads? Like Will I Amnt says, that the rule he suggested was nothing like the one that was subsequently brought in.

    * Just to be clear, I'm talking about jokes about rival teams, not jokes about rival team superthreads.
    Pro. F wrote: »
    From the OP this thread is due to be closed tomorrow. But I'm still waiting on responses to the question that I asked Mickeroo and Dfx about the cross-thread baiting issue (I think neither of them have been on the forum since I asked the question). So could the thread be left open a bit longer to discuss this further?

    I'm not disagreeing with or denying how Will I Amnt or anyone put forward the original rule, but after discussing with mods, CMods and looking at it, the broader rule was introduced after feedback which includes reported posts and PMs. There are mod discussions after every feedback thread and what can be introduced or removed afterwards. If this involves expansion of the point or condensing the charter, I feel the mods should be free to do this with due reason.

    The specific issue comes under its umbrella. So the specific issue was covered and other similar issues with cross thread baiting were also covered.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    dfx- wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with or denying how Will I Amnt or anyone put forward the original rule, but after discussing with mods, CMods and looking at it, the broader rule was introduced after feedback which includes reported posts and PMs. There are mod discussions after every feedback thread and what can be introduced or removed afterwards. If this involves expansion of the point or condensing the charter, I feel the mods should be free to do this with due reason.

    The specific issue comes under its umbrella. So the specific issue was covered and other similar issues with cross thread baiting were also covered.

    Thanks for the reply. That's clear and directly addresses my questions.

    I think the bolded bit is the crux of the issue. You, the mod team, see those types of changes to user proposed rules as within your remit. I wasn't aware of that and I don't think the mods have ever previously informed us that this was what was going on when user proposed rules were adopted.

    Surely if the mods decided to change a user proposed rule so drastically when they were introducing it to the charter, it would have been best for that change to have been explicitly stated and explained at the time. As it is, it seems we gained a significant new rule added to the charter with no announcement or explanation. (It's possible I just missed the announcement and explanation or have forgotten it, there was a lot going on in the SF and feedback last summer with the WC and my memory can be dodgy. So I'm open to correction on this.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    SlickRic wrote: »
    What sort of 'minor issues' are you talking about, can I ask?

    Also, mods normally do try to solve really minor issues with a thread warning or a PM. I do it all the time. but there is also the issue of some people just not learning.

    We can't just keep PM'ing, and doing thread warnings. there have to be consequences at some point.

    so yeah, what are these 'minor issues' you speak of?

    We all have moments when posters are baited to purely get a reaction,then inevitably they get pissed off and lose the rag and get carded while the originator of the antagonism swans off happy in the knowledge they got somebody carded.Plus unexpected rule changes that not everybody has seen who are bewildered as to why they are in trouble.It's usually not major stuff but can be annoying.

    There was an issue before with a certain poster getting a mod to check who reported his post,that poster is no longer here but took to other social media and message boards to vent letting us know what he was at.If people feel there's any kind of bias on the part of the mods how can they have faith in the policing of this forum?


  • Subscribers Posts: 32,867 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    zerks wrote: »
    We all have moments when posters are baited to purely get a reaction,then inevitably they get pissed off and lose the rag and get carded while the originator of the antagonism swans off happy in the knowledge they got somebody carded.Plus unexpected rule changes that not everybody has seen who are bewildered as to why they are in trouble.It's usually not major stuff but can be annoying.

    There was an issue before with a certain poster getting a mod to check who reported his post,that poster is no longer here but took to other social media and message boards to vent letting us know what he was at.If people feel there's any kind of bias on the part of the mods how can they have faith in the policing of this forum?

    Do you think mods on this forum are biased? One of them? All of them?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,672 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    zerks wrote: »
    We all have moments when posters are baited to purely get a reaction,then inevitably they get pissed off and lose the rag and get carded while the originator of the antagonism swans off happy in the knowledge they got somebody carded.

    Yes, sometimes this happens. I believe it's been dealt with better recently. We'll endeavour to make sure low level trolling is kept to a minimum though.

    People usually fall foul of trolling when venturing into other superthreads, so a word of warning to people who do cross the divide (particularly the Utd/Liverpool one)...you don't have to agree with everyone, but you need to be civil.

    The 'rule change' thing has been dealt with, but just to say, if people don't engage in using stupid, childish, potentially offensive names, then they'll never have a problem.
    zerks wrote: »
    There was an issue before with a certain poster getting a mod to check who reported his post,that poster is no longer here but took to other social media and message boards to vent letting us know what he was at.If people feel there's any kind of bias on the part of the mods how can they have faith in the policing of this forum?

    I don't fully understand what you're saying about a 'certain poster' other than to say there's probably nothing I can say to someone who already thinks we're biased that will make them think we're not biased.

    We're not out to get anyone. Why would we want that sort of work and effort? DRPs, PM arguments, chats with CMods. I think I can speak for the mods in saying none of us search out for that sort of work.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,458 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Pro. F wrote: »
    I think the bolded bit is the crux of the issue. You, the mod team, see those types of changes to user proposed rules as within your remit.
    It is absolutely within their remit, as it is across the site. Mods can make/change rules as they see appropriate for the better running of the forum. If posters have an issue with rules, this type of thread gives them the opportunity to comment as they see fit. Beyond that posters can consider starting a thread in the Help Desk or Feedback, or directly communicate with CMods to express their concerns


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,709 ✭✭✭✭Cantona's Collars


    5starpool wrote: »
    Do you think mods on this forum are biased? One of them? All of them?

    Did I say they were biased? If so please feel free to quote it.

    All I said that if posters felt there was a hint of bias then they'd lose faith in the system.Proof of some stuff that went on before between a poster and a mod basically telling tales on who reported posts in soccer was put up on social media.This and other stuff was discussed before but if people want to plough up old ground then so be it.
    My point is that posters need to feel that processes are being followed without any influences,I think Turtyturd pretty much asked the same earlier about modding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,672 ✭✭✭✭SlickRic


    Have any of the current mods been doing this?

    If not, I don't see the point of your comment.

    Of course if we're biased the system won't work. That's obvious.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    zerks wrote: »
    I thought he was site banned;)
    zerks wrote: »

    There was an issue before with a certain poster getting a mod to check who reported his post,that poster is no longer here but took to other social media and message boards to vent letting us know what he was at.If people feel there's any kind of bias on the part of the mods how can they have faith in the policing of this forum?
    zerks wrote: »
    Proof of some stuff that went on before between a poster and a mod basically telling tales on who reported posts in soccer was put up on social media.This and other stuff was discussed before but if people want to plough up old ground then so be it.
    .


    Sounds like a vandetta more than feedback.

    I find this type of posting one of the worst types on the SF tbh. Thankfully it's not that common. Nothing against you Zerks but this type of nonsense about ex-posters? What does it add. You have an axe to grind against someone that used to post here and a mod by the sounds of it.

    Not really sure who you're talking about, but I'd hazard a guess at 3 or 4 people, there's so many gone the last while. Anyway, it doesn't matter the identity.

    I'd bet 99.99% of posters don't care for this stuff. People come to talk soccer. This is the type of stuff that takes the fun out of posting tbh.


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