Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:07PM

The pro-choice people seem to make their arguments for abortion based on the exceptions, rather than the general argument of using abortion as contraception, as the pro-life campaigners tend to do i.e stay on point. In matters of fatal foetal abnormality etc, pro-life campaigners tend to support abortion in these cases anyway, yet pro-choice campaigners continue to churn out this argument, as if it has relevance to abortion as a method of contraception.

It's also disappointing that as time goes on, pro-choice campaigners attitude seems to harden more and more on the refusal of a man to have any say in his potential child.

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:09PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The pro-choice people seem to make their arguments for abortion based on the exceptions, rather than the general argument of using abortion as contraception, as the pro-life campaigners tend to do i.e stay on point. In matters of fatal foetal abnormality etc, pro-life campaigners tend to support abortion in these cases anyway, yet pro-choice campaigners continue to churn out this argument, as if it has relevance to abortion as a method of contraception

Abortion as contraception? How many women do you think use abortion as a method of contraception?

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:10PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Abortion as contraception? How many women do you think use abortion as a method of contraception?

So you really don't know what I mean or are just being pedantic for the sake of it? The vast majority of abortions are people just having unprotected sex, all the while knowing the consequences, yet continue to do it anyway

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:13PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So you really don't know what I mean or are just being pedantic for the sake of it?

A one off abortion as is the case for most women is not using abortion as a form of contraception. If you're going to post at least post honestly.

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:14PM

eviltwin wrote: »

A one off abortion as is the case for most women is not using abortion as a form of contraception. If you're going to post at least post honestly.

The vast majority of abortions are people just having unprotected sex, all the while knowing the consequences, yet continue to do it anyway

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:17PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The vast majority of abortions are people just having unprotected sex, all the while knowing the consequences, yet continue to do it anyway

True and that's just human nature. Most people are just lucky not to get caught out. If the worst happens then it's bad luck and what happens after that is a personal decision.

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:18PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The vast majority of abortions are people just having unprotected sex, all the while knowing the consequences, yet continue to do it anyway

Can you back this up with stats?

From reading stories of women who've had abortions, most seem to have used contracpetion of some sort, up to and including the morning after pill. What would you suggest a woman pregnant who does not want to be do? Simply accept that she must remain pregnent because a condom split or the pill she was on didn't work? You do know every woman has a different reason for aborting a pregnancy. What about a ten year old pregnant with twins because of rape, should she accept the consenquences of having unprotected sex? Should she have been on the pill in case she was raped? Should all women?

11-06-2015 05:18PM

eviltwin wrote: »

what happens after that is a personal decision.

In Ireland its not and nor should it be as the unborn child has a right to life and needs others stand its corner as it cant do it itself.

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:20PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

In Ireland its not and nor should it be as the unborn child has a right to life and needs others stand its corner as it cant do it itself.

It is because no one can stop a woman travelling to the UK if she wants to have an abortion.

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:20PM

eviltwin wrote: »

True and that's just human nature. Most people are just lucky not to get caught out. If the worst happens then it's bad luck and what happens after that is a personal decision.

My point being the pro choice crowd have filled this thread up with arguments which have nothing to do with the vast majority of abortions

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:21PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

In Ireland its not and nor should it be as the unborn child has a right to life and needs others stand its corner as it cant do it itself.

What are you doing to stand its corner? Are you campaigning for the right to travel to kill the unborn child to be repealed? Are you campaigning for women who terminate pregnancies abroad and return home to face criminal charges, along with anyone who travels with them? Seems very strange that the unborn has a right to life, but I could head off tomorrow with the unborn and kill it somewhere else and return home and the rights of the unborn won't be addressed at all.

No Voter And Proud · 11-06-2015 05:21PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

In Ireland its not and nor should it be as the unborn child has a right to life and needs others stand its corner as it cant do it itself.

This is the point that's being missed IMO.

How come it's a "choice" whether an unborn child is allowed continue to develop or not?

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:22PM

lazygal wrote: »

What are you doing to stand its corner? Are you campaigning for the right to travel to kill the unborn child to be repealed? Are you campaigning for women who terminate pregnancies abroad and return home to face criminal charges, along with anyone who travels with them? Seems very strange that the unborn has a right to life, but I could head off tomorrow with the unborn and kill it somewhere else and return home and the rights of the unborn won't be addressed at all.

What are you doing to make abortion legal in Ireland?

No Voter And Proud · 11-06-2015 05:22PM

lazygal wrote: »

What are you doing to stand its corner? Are you campaigning for the right to travel to kill the unborn child to be repealed? Are you campaigning for women who terminate pregnancies abroad and return home to face criminal charges, along with anyone who travels with them? Seems very strange that the unborn has a right to life, but I could head off tomorrow with the unborn and kill it somewhere else and return home and the rights of the unborn won't be addressed at all.

The irish government and irish law has little to no jurisdiction in other legal systems.

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:23PM

lazygal wrote: »

Can you back this up with stats?

A quick google or common sense should prevail here

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:23PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

What are you doing to make abortion legal in Ireland?

Plugging away with abortion rights campaigners and donating to organisations working to repeal the eighth. What are you doing to vindicate the right of the unborn not to be killed?

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:23PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

My point being the pro choice crowd have filled this thread up with arguments which have nothing to do with the vast majority of abortions

Why do you think that is? Because all women are covered by the law as it stands. I would be well able to plan a trip to the UK if I needed to but a young girl can't, a woman with an intellectual disability can't, a rape victim may not be emotionally able to...a couple whose baby has a FFA may not be able to due to the costs. We always say the UK is available as if it's easy to travel, it's not easy or possible for everyone.

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:24PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

A quick google or common sense should prevail here

Could you provide the stats? You did make the claim.

Maybe you could tell these women they should have used contraception:
http://www.terminationformedicalreasons.com/

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:24PM

lazygal wrote: »

Plugging away with abortion rights campaigners and donating to organisations working to repeal the eighth. What are you doing to vindicate the right of the unborn not to be killed?

So nothing really apart from posting on boards, just like nox.

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:25PM

No Voter And Proud wrote: »

The irish government and irish law has little to no jurisdiction in other legal systems.

But you can face consenquences here for things that are legal abroad, such as helping someone born travel to die. Why can't we do that for the unborn?

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:26PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So nothing really apart from posting on boards, just like nox.

I don't need to list the things I've done, much like I know you don't need to list what you're doing to prevent the unborn being taken elsewhere to be killed.

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:27PM

lazygal wrote: »

Could you provide the stats? You did make the claim.

Maybe you could tell these women they should have used contraception:
http://www.terminationformedicalreasons.com/

Of course there should be exceptions. I implied that already. You not read my first post? If you need stats on such a matter, then you are just being pedantic to sidetrack the debate. Use google my friend. Or do you care to provide evidence on the contrary if I really am way of the mark? Because if you can I'll hold me hand up. I'm not holding my breath

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:28PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

So nothing really apart from posting on boards, just like nox.

What are you doing to support all those women who are pregnant and don't want to be? Are you just going to moralise at them ?

The Golden Miller · 11-06-2015 05:30PM

eviltwin wrote: »

What are you doing to support all those women who are pregnant and don't want to be? Are you just going to moralise at them ?

Nothing, which is just as much as anyone on either side of the debate on this thread has done

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:32PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Of course there should be exceptions. I implied that already. You not read my first post? If you need stats on such a matter, then you are just being pedantic to sidetrack the debate. Use google my friend. Or do you care to provide evidence on the contrary if I really am way of the mark? Because if you can I'll hold me hand up. I'm not holding my breath

So some unborn children are worthy of protection but others are not. Why is that? Why is a women pregnant because of not using contraception obliged to remain pregnant while others are allowed to kill the unborn?

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:33PM

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Nothing, which is just as much as anyone on either side of the debate on this thread has done

You could always donate to the Abortion Support Network which helps women who don't want to be pregnant. I have, many times.

11-06-2015 05:34PM

lazygal wrote: »

So some unborn children are worthy of protection but others are not. Why is that? Why is a women pregnant because of not using contraception obliged to remain pregnant while others are allowed to kill the unborn?

There is a massive difference between somone having an abortion because they dont want the baby and having one because for instance there is extreme risk to the womans life.

One is a lifestyle choice and one is a medical decision and a very very tough one to make at that.

lazygal wrote: »

You could always donate to the Abortion Support Network which helps women who don't want to be pregnant. I have, many times.

Or they could avail of all the support of their friends and family and medical care in Ireland available to pregnant women.

eviltwin · 11-06-2015 05:36PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

There is a massive difference between somone having an abortion because they dont want the baby and having one because for instance there is extreme risk to the womans life.

One is a lifestyle choice and one is a medical decision and a very very tough one to make at that.

I suppose you think the women who have abortions for non medical reasons just treat it like a holiday? :rolleyes:

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:37PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

There is a massive difference between somone having an abortion because they dont want the baby and having one because for instance there is extreme risk to the womans life.

One is a lifestyle choice and one is a medical decision and a very very tough one to make at that.

Why is there a massive difference? No one is obliged to die to vindicate my right to life or that of my children. Why does the unborn have to die so a woman can live? Is that because there's a difference between an unborn and born person? What about the risk to a woman's health, is that grounds for killing the unborn?

lazygal · 11-06-2015 05:37PM

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

Or they could avail of all the support of their friends and family and medical care in Ireland available to pregnant women.

Which support is that? The kind Miss Y got when she told medical personnel she no longer wanted to remain pregnant?

Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

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