Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

1…6791112…31

Comments

  • #242
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    nc19 wrote: »
    Not sure where you're from but the youth I see pregnant are far from educated. While I think abortion should be legal here these types of people will use it as a contraception imo but that's the beauty of democracy, everyone has the same rights.........

    I think that was the point that was made.
    The educated, well-off teenager will be more likely to have the choice to travel to Britain to abort.
    The underpriviledged, less well educated one doesn't have the choice, so those are the ones you will see pregnant.


  • #243
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,994 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    whatdoicare wrote: »

    It's completely taboo to speak about it - like, how does a mother turn around to her baby group and spout - "oh, you know what, I'm in pain every day and I'm too scared to get a smear test as I keep having flash backs of the doctor forcing forceps up my vagina while I was terrified I was going to die and I lost a lot of blood and I have nightmares about that midwife who was screaming at me to push and when he did the episiotomy he cut too far and I can't even work up the courage to look down there but it feels like a mess, pooing really hurts now and I dream every night that my baby has died in her sleep and I'm now too scared to sleep in case it really happens and I also really think that if I died tomorrow it would actually be a relief but I'd be leaving my baby behind and who would watch her to make sure she didn't die in her sleep and I really love my husband but I'm pretty sure he's going to leave me because I can't orgasm anymore, so sex is pretty ****, this is what a prostitute must feel like and I'm never in the mood anyway and to be quite honest I actually really resent the fact he's not in any pain and he's whinging about having to change a nappy and I'd happily stab him to death right now if I thought I could get away with it and jesus, I never checked if this cafe has a toilet and what if my ****ing huge pad leaks through and I wreck a chair - again - and everyone I meet is asking me if I'm trying for baby number two and I wish I could tell them to **** off!!"

    Guess what, I had a "normal" birth but that rant above is a regular thought pattern that goes through my head on a daily basis and every other mammy in the world. My baby is two now. My husband would **** his pants if he knew what goes through my head every waking moment.

    Could anyone really force a woman to go through all that if they didn't want to? Birthing a baby doesn't switch on some kind of "mothering love" button nor does giving up the baby for adoption take away all the trauma. Nothing goes back to normal afterwards! NOTHING! It's nowhere near as simple as people think it is. Women should only go through birth when they are 100% on board with it all and I mean that. It's just too ****ing hard otherwise.

    I read this and it really affected me. It sounds like you've been through absolute hell. It definitely isn't every woman's expereince but it's horrific that it was yours. Completely outside this debate I think you have endured too much. I think you should print this out and bring it to you doctor and hand it to him. You could be suffering from postnatal depression and that can be really serious and a very unfortunate part of pregnancy but it can be helped and you just sound like someone who seriously deserves a break. If you're feeling like it might be a mercy to die, even if you aren't actively thinking of suicide, that's the point at which you need to get some help and not ignore things.

    I have someone in my family who got it and some of the things you are saying remind me of her. It became very severe as it went untreated a while. I wouldn't like to see you get there. That person recovered completely btw and had another child without trouble the next time.

    Anyway, don't ignore it or keep living with it. There are things that'll help out there and you deserve a break from this.


  • #244
    222233
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    nc19 wrote: »
    Not sure where you're from but the youth I see pregnant are far from educated. While I think abortion should be legal here these types of people will use it as a contraception imo but that's the beauty of democracy, everyone has the same rights.........


    Abortion isn't exactly a pleasant experience I don't think people would use it as contraception but more so children that would be brought into terrible families as you describe above will not have to be brought into that lifestyle!


  • #245
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    orubiru wrote: »
    No. Maybe we should realize that although the age of consent is 16 they would inexperienced at that age and mistakes are likely due to that inexperience.
    To begin with the age of consent in Ireland is 17.

    Secondly, this is the sort of self-serving bollocks we're seeing more and more of today where there is an increasing demand for rights, but without any responsibility. If a case of an 18-year old drinking under the influence results in an accident, should that 18-year old be allowed to avoid the consequences of his or her actions on the basis of 'inexperience' too? Seriously.

    It you have the right to something, you are expected to deal with the consequences, good or ill, of exercising those rights. If 16 or 17 year olds are too "inexperienced at that age and mistakes are likely", then fine - raise the age of consent to an age where they are more likely to be responsible.

    But I've really had it with this cake and eat it attitude of being treated as responsible adults when it suits and as children or victims when it doesn't.
    They can choose how they want to live but they can't make THAT choice. Unlike their European counterparts.
    No, I'm not actually discussing abortion here - indeed, the legality of abortion is not related to age whatsoever in Ireland.

    I am questioning your reasoning that people who are judged to be adults should not be treated as such. If abortion were available, I still would expect such people to deal with the consequences of their actions if they are deemed to be adults, whether that involved legal abortion or not.


  • #246
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    If a case of an 18-year old drinking under the influence results in an accident, should that 18-year old be allowed to avoid the consequences of his or her actions on the basis of 'inexperience' too? Seriously.

    Would the judge consider that when sentencing? What do you think?


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    orubiru wrote: »
    Would the judge consider that when sentencing? What do you think?
    I'm not questioning the reasoning of a judge, I'm questioning yours, because you are the one who is proposing that a judge should consider it.


  • #248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    orubiru wrote: »
    Why not?

    Why should we be the ones who decide if there's a "2nd chance" or not? It's their body. How is it that you and I have a stake in what some random girl does with her body?

    Because that's not how society works, people don't have the right to do as they want in many circumstances no matter how much they want to. When a baby is growing then she is no longer only deciding about her body but also that of an unborn baby.
    Shenshen wrote: »
    And I honestly have to ask, why do you regard children as punishment?

    I don't regard them as punishment, don't know how you got that idea from my posts.


  • #249
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    To begin with the age of consent in Ireland is 17.

    Secondly, this is the sort of self-serving bollocks we're seeing more and more of today where there is an increasing demand for rights, but without any responsibility. If a case of an 18-year old drinking under the influence results in an accident, should that 18-year old be allowed to avoid the consequences of his or her actions on the basis of 'inexperience' too? Seriously.

    It you have the right to something, you are expected to deal with the consequences, good or ill, of exercising those rights. If 16 or 17 year olds are too "inexperienced at that age and mistakes are likely", then fine - raise the age of consent to an age where they are more likely to be responsible.

    But I've really had it with this cake and eat it attitude of being treated as responsible adults when it suits and as children or victims when it doesn't.

    No, I'm not actually discussing abortion here - indeed, the legality of abortion is not related to age whatsoever in Ireland.

    I am questioning your reasoning that people who are judged to be adults should not be treated as such. If abortion were available, I still would expect such people to deal with the consequences of their actions if they are deemed to be adults, whether that involved legal abortion or not.

    Raise the age of consent and the "inexperience" level stays the same. If your first time getting laid happens at 17 or 25 it's still your first time.

    Yes, people should be shown leniency depending on the circumstances.

    You talk about it as if it were a new thing. Judges have been showing leniency regarding sentencing for crimes since we started having legal systems.

    It's nothing to do with having their cake and eating it. It's about showing understanding and cutting people some slack.

    Who is saying that there is no responsibility? I am sure that an abortion isn't a walk in the park. It's not like little Mary goes skipping off with mommy and daddy to Abortion Land and back to school the next day with wonderful stories to tell. There are negative consequences so lets not pretend that theres no responsibility being taken.


  • #250
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    I'm not questioning the reasoning of a judge, I'm questioning yours, because you are the one who is proposing that a judge should consider it.

    What do you mean? Judges often consider it. It's not like there is a "flat rate" sentence handed down for each crime.

    I am not proposing that judges show leniency. They already do and they always have done.


  • #251
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    I don't regard them as punishment, don't know how you got that idea from my posts.

    Well, this whole "they have to be forced to live with the consequences of their mistakes" when it comes to unwanted pregnancies rather does sound like you'd want to see people punished for being not careful enough when having sex.
    And the punishment of choice appears to be children.


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    Because that's not how society works, people don't have the right to do as they want in many circumstances no matter how much they want to. When a baby is growing then she is no longer only deciding about her body but also that of an unborn baby.

    Then why do most developed countries in the world allow abortion?

    Why is the UN putting pressure on Ireland to allow abortion?

    What special insight do you have that the United Nations and the government of the UK (and the medical professionals advising them) have overlooked?


  • #253
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Well, this whole "they have to be forced to live with the consequences of their mistakes" when it comes to unwanted pregnancies rather does sound like you'd want to see people punished for being not careful enough when having sex.
    And the punishment of choice appears to be children.

    They do have to live with the consequences but I don't mean it as the children being as punishment.

    I completely understand that its a very difficult situation and I would feel very sorry for someone in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy and certainly would not in anyway see the pregnancy as punishment for a what ever reason led to the pregnancy.

    However I do not agree with abortion nor would I want to see Ireland bring in laws like the UK etc.


  • #254
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    it's this simple....
    i am a father- the life of my kid started after the pregnancy test

    if we did not want the kid then life would not have begun after the pregnancy test


    it's CHOICE


  • #255
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    They do have to live with the consequences but I don't mean it as the children being as punishment.

    I completely understand that its a very difficult situation and I would feel very sorry for someone in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy and certainly would not in anyway see the pregnancy as punishment for a what ever reason led to the pregnancy.

    However I do not agree with abortion nor would I want to see Ireland bring in laws like the UK etc.

    OK, but have you considered why countries like the UK have such laws?

    Don't you wonder why the UN, for example, is putting pressure on Ireland to bring in laws like the UK?


  • #256
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    orubiru wrote: »
    Raise the age of consent and the "inexperience" level stays the same. If your first time getting laid happens at 17 or 25 it's still your first time.
    I don't think you understand what personal responsibility means.

    Personal responsibility means that even if you're inexperienced, then you are mature enough to inform yourself and take precautions. If someone is 18 and acts irresponsibly, either by drinking and driving or having unprotected sex, then society (regardless of whether abortion is legal or not) will judge them to be responsible for their actions.
    Who is saying that there is no responsibility? I am sure that an abortion isn't a walk in the park.
    I really have no idea why you keep on bringing abortion into this. Does age make any difference to the legality of abortion in Ireland? Or anywhere else? How is abortion relevant to this particular argument?


  • #257
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    They do have to live with the consequences but I don't mean it as the children being as punishment.

    I completely understand that its a very difficult situation and I would feel very sorry for someone in the situation of an unplanned pregnancy and certainly would not in anyway see the pregnancy as punishment for a what ever reason led to the pregnancy.

    However I do not agree with abortion nor would I want to see Ireland bring in laws like the UK etc.

    So you're happy to keep the status quo?
    Abortions are available for most women living in Ireland, budget airlines have been a great equaliser in that sense.

    Irish women abort, by the thousands, every year. And rather than face up to this reality, and make the procedure and good after-care available here, people go on about how things "should" be. Ideology vs reality.


  • #258
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Praise abort – til linndeman
    [Intro]
    I like to ****, but no French letter
    Without a condom, the sex is better
    But every time I get it in
    A baby cries and sometimes twins

    [Verse 1]
    I have six kids and I don't like it
    They eat too much and treat me like ****
    They only wear Posh label clothes
    I give them one hand, they bite off both
    And all my friends, they have big cars
    Big mansions, too, and smoke the fine cigars
    They have deep pockets, I don't know why
    I look at my purse and start to cry
    Why?

    [Chorus]
    I hate my life, and I hate you
    I hate my wife, and her boyfriend, too
    I hate to hate, and I hate that
    I hate my life so very bad
    I hate my kids, never thought
    That I'd praise abort
    Praise abort

    [Verse 2]
    I like to ****, but no French letter
    Cause without kids, life is so much better
    So in the end, I got forced
    To stay away from female intercourse

    [Chorus]
    I hate my life, and I hate you
    I hate my wife, and her boyfriend, too
    I hate to hate, and I hate that
    I hate my life so very bad
    I hate my kids, never thought
    That I'd praise abort
    Praise abort

    [Break]
    Say goodbye, say goodbye
    We rise up, up to the sky
    Say goodbye, we'll come back
    Soon as pretty butterflies
    Make you cry

    [Chrous/Outro]
    I hate my life, and I hate you
    I hate my wife, and my boyfriend, too
    I hate to hate, and I hate that
    I hate myself so very bad
    I hate my offspring, never thought
    That I'd praise abort
    I praise abort


  • #259
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    i am a father- the life of my kid started after the pregnancy test
    Schrödinger's fetus?


  • #260
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    orubiru wrote: »
    OK, but have you considered why countries like the UK have such laws?

    Just because another country allows questionable practices doesn't mean we should.

    We should be proud of how Ireland does not allow abortions on demand.
    Shenshen wrote: »
    So you're happy to keep the status quo?
    Abortions are available for most women living in Ireland, budget airlines have been a great equaliser in that sense.

    Irish women abort, by the thousands, every year. And rather than face up to this reality, and make the procedure and good after-care available here, people go on about how things "should" be. Ideology vs reality.

    We should be working very hard to discourage people going abroad for abortions also on top of keeping our laws as they are.


  • #261
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    We should be working very hard to discourage people going abroad for abortions also on top of keeping our laws as they are.

    Again with the "should"...


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Again with the "should"...

    Well it is already heavily discouraged.

    Just because people go is abroad a reason for Ireland to lower its moral standards. At least we can say we did our best to give the children a chance at life by not allowing it to happen here.


  • #263
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    The Corinthian wrote: »

    I really have no idea why you keep on bringing abortion into this. Does age make any difference to the legality of abortion in Ireland? Or anywhere else? How is abortion relevant to this particular argument?

    Read the thread title. Thanks.


  • #264
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Again with the "should"...
    Where would you suggest 'should' would be acceptable in this discussion?


  • #265
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    orubiru wrote: »
    Read the thread title. Thanks.
    You clearly didn't - I did repeatedly ask the relevance of abortion to this tangent of yours, and I'm still waiting for a response.


  • #266
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    Just because another country allows questionable practices doesn't mean we should.

    We should be proud of how Ireland does not allow abortions on demand.

    OK, now neither of those two statements are answers to the questions that I asked.

    Let's try again?

    Have you considered why countries like the UK have the abortion laws that they do?

    Don't you wonder why the UN, for example, is putting pressure on Ireland to bring in laws like those in the UK?

    I'd say if I were going to argue against abortion I'd want to understand the reasoning process that has led to it not only being legal in most developed countries but also why it is a thing that the UN is encouraging Ireland to implement the same kind of regulations as the UK etc.


  • #267
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    You clearly didn't - I did repeatedly ask the relevance of abortion to this tangent of yours, and I'm still waiting for a response.

    It wasn't relevant and I didn't want to stay off on a tangent.

    So, trying to get back on topic. If that's OK with you?


  • #268
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    orubiru wrote: »
    OK, now neither of those two statements are answers to the questions that I asked.

    Let's try again?

    Have you considered why countries like the UK have the abortion laws that they do?

    Don't you wonder why the UN, for example, is putting pressure on Ireland to bring in laws like those in the UK?

    I'd say if I were going to argue against abortion I'd want to understand the reasoning process that has led to it not only being legal in most developed countries but also why it is a thing that the UN is encouraging Ireland to implement the same kind of regulations as the UK etc.

    The UN are contradicting their own ethics on valuing life by agreeing with abortion so they would want to sort out their own house before calling on Ireland or anywhere else to change their laws.


  • #269
    orubiru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭orubiru


    Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »
    The UN are contradicting their own ethics on valuing life by agreeing with abortion so they would want to sort out their own house before calling on Ireland or anywhere else to change their laws.

    Once again, you avoided giving answers to the questions that I asked.

    Have you considered why countries like the UK have the abortion laws that they do?

    Don't you wonder why the UN, for example, is putting pressure on Ireland to bring in laws like those in the UK?

    Seriously, why are they doing that? If it's so obviously wrong then why can't they see it?


  • #270
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    nc19 wrote: »
    Not sure where you're from but the youth I see pregnant are far from educated. While I think abortion should be legal here these types of people will use it as a contraception imo but that's the beauty of democracy, everyone has the same rights.........

    Teenage pregnancies are down substantially over the last decade.

    If anything going by the stats, it's very much older women who use abortion as a contraceptive. Some older people have a lot to learn when it comes to std's as well, young people can get an undeserved bad press in that regard.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Advertisement
  • #271
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    orubiru wrote: »
    It wasn't relevant and I didn't want to stay off on a tangent.

    So, trying to get back on topic. If that's OK with you?
    Not quite. If you knew it wasn't relevant, why did you bring it up in the first place?


Advertisement