Another Hour Record Attempt upcoming

dave_o_brien · 08-06-2015 02:45PM

pelevin wrote: »

No, ultimately my opinion is that when we talk about the greatest cyclists of all time, it's more or less a given that the conversation is about road cycling.

Oh right, so this is greatest ROAD cyclists of all time. Fair enough. Great topic of conversation to be had in a thread about the hour record. Y'know, an hour on the tracks and all that... Shall we leave it there?

pelevin wrote: »

Maybe there's mountain bikers & cyclo-cross riders whose achievements comparatively dwarf all but Merckx from road-cycling but tellingly no one is mentioning their names.

No. No we shall not leave it there... So people like Sven Nys, John Tomac, Brian Lopes, etc., all have claims to be amongst the greatest bike racers ever, but they didn't win Roubaix, so who cares, right?!

pelevin wrote: »

I presume a conversation about the greatest tennis players of all time doesn't get altered to "being elite in an array of fields is what is required" and so someone who has also done very well in squash or badminton trumps a Federer or whoever who solely won in the tennis field.

Riiight... But conventionally, cycling is thought of as a single sport with disciplines under the one umbrella. Racket sports are not thought of as the same sport, so I fail to see your point here.

I think most people understand what you're saying, and I don't actually disagree with you. To be considered one of the great road cyclists, one must win a lot on the road. What this argument is saying is that to be considered one of the great cyclists, one must win a lot across a range of disciplines. I just happen to think track is interesting, and so think your narrow definition of what constitutes greatness is, well, narrow.

mcgratheoin · 08-06-2015 02:52PM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

What this argument is saying is that to be considered one of the great cyclists, one must win a lot across a range of disciplines.

Interesting premise - do you think it's possible to have a "who is the greatest conversation" in the modern context, given the lack of (major) crossover between the varying forms of cycling. If there were to be a list of qualifications to get onto the shortlist, then what would they be?

One other question, given the vast discrepancy in monetary rewards between the varying forms of cycling, is it fair to assume that the majority (not all) of the talent gravitates towards the more lucrative roadie end of the spectrum, and if so, the competition on the road may be tougher or deeper?

mark kiernan · 08-06-2015 03:43PM

vos
hands down the best rider ,nobody comes close
road track cross mtb id say if you gave her a bmx shed have a go at that as well

manafana · 08-06-2015 04:17PM

nak wrote: »

Marianne Vos imo is the most complete cyclist at the moment - world titles in track, road, cyclocross and now competing in XC mountain biking.

Bradley Wiggins has had a very impressive career, the majority of pro riders retire without achieving a smidgeon of what he has. Terrible at cyclocross though

I do agree with the rest of your post, you can't compare and Merckx wouldn't be able to win all those races in the present day.

I see your Marianne Vos and raise you the current world road race champion Pauline Ferrand-Prevot at 23 she is already duel world champ in road and cyclecross and is national champion in the tt and mtb as well as road and cyclecross.

Harrybelafonte · 08-06-2015 05:49PM

manafana wrote: »

I see your Marianne Vos and raise you the current world road race champion Pauline Ferrand-Prevot at 23 she is already duel world champ in road and cyclecross and is national champion in the tt and mtb as well as road and cyclecross.

She was already mentioned by Nak and Dave O'Brien above as PFP

Fellow trackies... there's no point trying to bring some roadie fans around to the idea of what makes track racing a great sport. Leave them to their myopia. Sport for many is something they watch, not something they participate in.

Harrybelafonte · 08-06-2015 05:51PM

smcclaw · 08-06-2015 05:58PM

^^

Wow!

Lusk_Doyle · 08-06-2015 06:05PM

Rowan Attractive Court wrote: »

As a very casual fan of cycling can someone explain why wiggins only won one Tour de France and didn't seem too competitive much after ? Was it a particularly weak year or was he too old for more or another reason?

That one had approx 100kms of individual tts. Set up for him to win big mig style.

Leroy42 · 08-06-2015 06:49PM

^^The Vos picture. Is that a still from one of those Hoarders programs on Discovery. She doesn't even have a proper chair to sit on. We get it, you won a few races.

I just threw my MB200 medal in the drawer when I got home. Seriously, she needs to get over it.

nak · 08-06-2015 07:02PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

^^The Vos picture. Is that a still from one of those Hoarders programs on Discovery. She doesn't even have a proper chair to sit on. We get it, you won a few races.

I just threw my MB200 medal in the drawer when I got home. Seriously, she needs to get over it.

It's her Dad's garage. Just greedy winning all those races.

Leads a quiet life, had dinner in a hostel in Paris with a few of us after winning La Course instead of attending the TdF parties. Her male counterparts wouldn't be able to do that and be left alone.

buffalo · 08-06-2015 07:21PM

eeeee · 08-06-2015 10:42PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

^^The Vos picture. Is that a still from one of those Hoarders programs on Discovery. She doesn't even have a proper chair to sit on. We get it, you won a few races.

I just threw my MB200 medal in the drawer when I got home. Seriously, she needs to get over it.

If I won a medal of any kind of colour I would tattoo it to my forehead and weld it to my face forever! Serious kudos to the lady, no cyclist in any category or gender has achieved as much as she has across so many disciplines. Talk about a complete cyclist!

Pauline Ferrand Prevost isn't too far behind, and still so young.

Beasty · 08-06-2015 10:54PM

nak wrote: »

Are there many options for an indoor track at altitude?

3 in Mexico at between 1,500m and 2,300m (Mexico City - probably explains why Merckx went there)

ROK ON · 08-06-2015 11:02PM

Beasty wrote: »

3 in Mexico at between 1,500m and 2,300m (Mexico City - probably explains why Merckx went there)

Wiggo has welcomed people to have a go at his record. He has said that he would like to see athletes attack the record at sea level and I do think that he has a point. It would be good to set comparable benchmarks in as much as that can be done.
If Martin could work in track skills and positioning he could put this away-but the lack of those skills on his part probably favour someone like Dowsett over time.

I hate track racing but I watched yesterday and was mesmerised by it. The idea of one man and a bike seemed so pure in a way. It was brutal. Delighted he got it but also please that it's not unreachable. It says a huge amount about his ability that he put some much distance into Dowsett when the conditions did not suit the attempt.

He is a remarkable cyclists. One of the best of all time- no idea. One of the best of the last twenty years - undoubtedly in my mind.

kumate_champ07 · 08-06-2015 11:27PM

the best track cyclist of all time is probably Koichi Nakano, 10 times match sprint world champion, current coach of Japanese national sprint team

Harrybelafonte · 09-06-2015 09:19AM

ROK ON wrote: »

Wiggo has welcomed people to have a go at his record. He has said that he would like to see athletes attack the record at sea level and I do think that he has a point. It would be good to set comparable benchmarks in as much as that can be done.
If Martin could work in track skills and positioning he could put this away-but the lack of those skills on his part probably favour someone like Dowsett over time.

I hate track racing but I watched yesterday and was mesmerised by it. The idea of one man and a bike seemed so pure in a way. It was brutal. Delighted he got it but also please that it's not unreachable. It says a huge amount about his ability that he put some much distance into Dowsett when the conditions did not suit the attempt.

He is a remarkable cyclists. One of the best of all time- no idea. One of the best of the last twenty years - undoubtedly in my mind.

You hate track cycling? Really? It offends you somehow.

manafana · 09-06-2015 09:24AM

ROK ON wrote: »

Wiggo has welcomed people to have a go at his record. He has said that he would like to see athletes attack the record at sea level and I do think that he has a point. It would be good to set comparable benchmarks in as much as that can be done.
If Martin could work in track skills and positioning he could put this away-but the lack of those skills on his part probably favour someone like Dowsett over time.

I hate track racing but I watched yesterday and was mesmerised by it. The idea of one man and a bike seemed so pure in a way. It was brutal. Delighted he got it but also please that it's not unreachable. It says a huge amount about his ability that he put some much distance into Dowsett when the conditions did not suit the attempt.

He is a remarkable cyclists. One of the best of all time- no idea. One of the best of the last twenty years - undoubtedly in my mind.

The hour record when presented well with cut aways to other information and good timing is very interesting.

Track cycling is ok the tactics are good but there are less ways of winning race and of course less different type of routes, there only advantage is they can charge in. Really road racing has more money because its not more popular not the other way round.

eeeee · 09-06-2015 09:59AM

manafana wrote: »

The hour record when presented well with cut aways to other information and good timing is very interesting.

Track cycling is ok the tactics are good but there are less ways of winning race and of course less different type of routes, there only advantage is they can charge in. Really road racing has more money because its not more popular not the other way round.

There are plenty of ways to win a track race, breakaways stay away on track too! And horseracing hasn't suffered from racing happening in an oval.
Track is a lot more spectator friendly, you can see everything happening in a race backside, It's easier to follow. Also you are not allowed (bar the Madison) to 'collude' so you don't have teams controlling things or protecting riders. It's a lot purer, rider v rider not team v team. And it's faster. It's not the quality of racing that sees it less commercially popular than road!

But if chateau's and big business are your thing road is the way to go:P...but It is perfectly legal to like both

ROK ON · 09-06-2015 11:27AM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

You hate track cycling? Really? It offends you somehow.

Yes I do not enjoy watching it. Hate is a strong word but in this context I have used to attempt to highlight while i dislike watching track cycling (as I people racing other people) I found the hour dramatic.
Nothing wrong with any sport, but I dislike watching many sports - track cycling one of them.
Maybe hate is a poor choice to convey dislike?:rolleyes:

dastardly00 · 09-06-2015 06:27PM

This sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me.

From cyclingnews:

The coach of former UCI Hour Record holder Alex Dowsett, Steve Collins, has spoken out against Bradley Wiggins’ recent record breaking attempt, saying that it was done illegally.

"For attempts like that it should all be production available so you can buy it off the shelf. You can't get 3D-printed handlebars moulded to your own arms to make it easier for your own attempt."

Darkglasses · 09-06-2015 07:11PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

This sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me.

From cyclingnews:

Very sour. Hope the quotes are out of context or something, that's a silly attitude to have for a coach.

nak · 09-06-2015 07:42PM

Darkglasses wrote: »

Very sour. Hope the quotes are out of context or something, that's a silly attitude to have for a coach.

Hopefully seeing as you can't just pop down the local bike shop and buy all of Dowsett's equipment/clothing either.

manafana · 09-06-2015 10:10PM

dastardly00 wrote: »

This sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me.

From cyclingnews:

steve collins wasn't his coach for the attempt he was like an assistant. Think point on the bars was that they were on off custom piece, all pieces are meant to be produced to be commercially available, so normally make 4 of them one for race one for spare one for uci and one to sell. Silly remark all same

Harrybelafonte · 09-06-2015 11:07PM

manafana wrote: »

steve collins wasn't his coach for the attempt he was like an assistant. Think point on the bars was that they were on off custom piece, all pieces are meant to be produced to be commercially available, so normally make 4 of them one for race one for spare one for uci and one to sell. Silly remark all same

So he's right? Or he isn't?

CramCycle · 09-06-2015 11:22PM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

So he's right? Or he isn't?

If it's a 3d print Wiggins could easily put the file up for sale so as to be technically commercially available.

niceonetom · 09-06-2015 11:23PM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

So he's right? Or he isn't?

He's not wrong.

The record became a technological battle ground once before and it killed it. I think the UCI did (uncharacteristically) well in resurrecting the hour, it'd be a shame to let it get bogged down in bickering about equipment, and maybe the best way to avoid that would be to police those areas where bespoke and off-the-shelf only very slightly overlap i.e. the secret-squirrels of Team GB etc.

FWIW I also think the UCI dropped the ball by not including any stipulations about altitude. If Dowset (or whoever really) beats this distance but does so at Aguas Calientes we could well be back to the problem of inferior human efforts yielding superior results and that's best avoided if we want the record to be meaningful across generations.

CramCycle · 09-06-2015 11:24PM

That said after hearing some of the stupid sh1t Graham Obree had to deal with, if someone higher in UCI had said it or someone less popular had won the record, then it might hold up

Darkglasses · 10-06-2015 12:18AM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

So he's right? Or he isn't?

It's just as commercially available as any other near one-off prototype gear in the pro peloton - i.e. barely at all.

Good luck buying SRAM wireless, Adam Hansen's shoes, top secret FSA groupset components, bespoke Paris-Roubaix tyres, last year's McLaren frameset, etc etc.

Leroy42 · 10-06-2015 09:25AM

OT, but I don't agree with the UCI stance on commercially available products. The pro ranks should be the hot bed on new technology. Like in most other sports, the pro ranks get to use the products 1st. Firstly be testing and then the actual product roll out.

Its mere amatuers need something to be wowed out. There should be a certain mystic about the top level. Of course, these products will always become commercially available if they prove successful in the pro world.

I mean what is the point of the weight limit? A pro team is not going to send their riders out on products they 'know' will fail. If it isn't safe the riders and teams won't use it as they won't finish and it meaningless in terms of the arms race as the top teams simply use their finances to buy the best riders etc, no point having me on a 5.5kg against Contador on the UCI 6.8kg

check_six · 10-06-2015 09:33AM

Historically some races like the Tour de France had quite strict rules about new technology on bikes. The TdF was one of the last races to allow gear shifters. Previously they had allowed the riders flip over their wheels and use a sprocket on the other side, but that was it. Something to do with preserving the purity of the race! So not that weird to have some odd restrictions.

Another Hour Record Attempt upcoming

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