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Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

24567…31

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  • #32
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The people of 1983 were not cowards, they voted for what they believed, like the people of 2015 did in the most recent referendums.

    societies change

    how long should the will of the people of 1983 remain over existing citizens?


  • #33
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    No one is 'letting someone else deal with it'. If women want to go to a country where abortion is legal you can't forcibly stop them from leaving the airport.
    ..........

    Until recently, you could, should it become known that was why they were travelling. However this changed to the 'as long as it doesn't happen on our holy soil' approach we have now.

    And then theres the problem of young women in state care, who can't travel.


  • #34
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,772 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    galljga1 wrote: »
    If you want to petition for that, feel free. Do not be surprised however to find in 30 years time that the support rate for SSM is in the region of 80 to 85%.

    That is nonsense, how do you know that?

    Just guessing which is based on nothing.


  • #35
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Riskymove wrote: »
    societies change

    how long should the will of the people of 1983 remain over existing citizens?

    Until they vote in a government with a mandate to change it.


  • #36
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    I think we all know a few adults that should have been aborted... lol

    Is this not evidence enough that we should legalise it?

    I'd be in favour of a few retrospective abortions too! :P


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  • #37
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Until they vote in a government with a mandate to change it.

    I'd suggest "Until they vote in a government with the bollocks to change it" would be closer to the truth. I'd say a large majority support abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities and rape at the very least.


  • #38
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd suggest "Until they vote in a government with the bollocks to change it" would be closer to the truth. I'd say a large majority support abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities and rape at the very least.

    I doubt there is as many in the latter as in the former.


  • #39
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,772 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Riskymove wrote: »
    societies change

    how long should the will of the people of 1983 remain over existing citizens?

    Life of the woman and the unborn has not changed.

    How long does it take for society to change something which is wrong to view it as a right?

    Look at Amnesty International, out supporting abortion, yet it's founder was against it, and it was only when he was gone that they chose to view some abortions as being ok, but it went against the person who made the organisation famous.
    It also cost the organisation money as many will not support Amnesty now for what some would view as it's support for a human right abuse.


  • #40
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,772 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd suggest "Until they vote in a government with the bollocks to change it" would be closer to the truth. I'd say a large majority support abortion in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities and rape at the very least.

    Fatal fetal abnormality is not black and white.

    Anyone who thinks it is do not know personal cases where there are children living normal lives, despite the mother being told the unborn child would not live.


  • #41
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,064 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    What size does a flag have to be before it's miniature?


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  • #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Fatal fetal abnormality is not black and white.

    .............

    Yep. There are children born with no brains now leading successful lives and contributing to society.


  • #43
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Life of the woman and the unborn has not changed.

    actually I think the views on, for example, how to treat cases where the baby won't live or where as a result of incest or rape (issues largely unreported or dealt with in 1983), have changed significantly

    and frankly, I think the view of the value of the life of a woman has increased significantly since then too


  • #44
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,597 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yep. There are children born with no brains now leading successful lives and contributing to society.

    Strange how politics tends to attract such leading lights :pac:


  • #45
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I doubt there is as many in the latter as in the former.

    "The Behaviour & Attitudes Poll of 916 eligible voters is published in today’s Sunday Times and finds that 59 per cent of people favour abortion where “the mother displays suicidal feelings”.
    Seventy-four per cent of those polled said that where pregnancy results from rape abortion should be permissible with a fifth of those polled opposed to this.
    Even more, 80 per cent, believe that a fatal foetal abnormality situation should mean that a woman has access to an abortion while 87 per cent are in favour of abortion where the mother’s life is in danger – but not from the risk of suicide."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-ireland-rape-fatal-foetal-abnormality-771180-Jan2013/
    A 6% difference, in that poll at least.


  • #46
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    If a neighbouring country has abortion-on-demand that's no reason for us to change our constitution. It's fine the way it is, the people voted for it already.


  • #47
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,403 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Cuban Pete wrote: »
    Every sperm and egg has the potential to go on and be: our sisters, our daughters, our cousins, our friends, not just numbers on a page.


    What about the eggs that are not fertalised every month? what about all those poor sperm that actually make into the fallopioan tubes, but only the fastest/strongest one makes it to the bloddy egg! :rolleyes:


  • #48
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Cuban Pete wrote: »
    Every sperm and egg has the potential to go on and be: our sisters, our daughters, our cousins, our friends, not just numbers on a page.

    Not nearly as much as a baby at four to five month stage of fetal growth they don't. Do sperm cells have a heart beat? Do they have a gender? Can they be witnessed wincing, grimacing and sucking their thumbs? Nah, so away and think up a better retort than that facetious nonsense.

    Thankfully most abortions are carried out before 13 weeks and only around 10% between 14 and 24 but it's still far too many in my view.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl4co46cN2U


  • #49
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Nodin wrote: »
    "The Behaviour & Attitudes Poll of 916 eligible voters is published in today’s Sunday Times and finds that 59 per cent of people favour abortion where “the mother displays suicidal feelings”.
    Seventy-four per cent of those polled said that where pregnancy results from rape abortion should be permissible with a fifth of those polled opposed to this.
    Even more, 80 per cent, believe that a fatal foetal abnormality situation should mean that a woman has access to an abortion while 87 per cent are in favour of abortion where the mother’s life is in danger – but not from the risk of suicide."
    http://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-ireland-rape-fatal-foetal-abnormality-771180-Jan2013/
    A 6% difference, in that poll at least.

    And they had one before the same sex marriage referendum saying it would be 80:20. I just don't think that there would be as many supporting the rape scenario after the canvassing and campaigning is done. They are different issues and shouldn't be lumped together.


  • #50
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    If a neighbouring country has abortion-on-demand that's no reason for us to change our constitution. It's fine the way it is, the people voted for it already.

    de people joe ......... and that was the problem

    voting should have been restricted to :

    women 21 - 35 ( nice wide margin there )

    except

    no nuns ( won't be having none ) no creche workers, nurses,teachers and a few more


  • #51
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,768 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    No one is 'letting someone else deal with it'. If women want to go to a country where abortion is legal you can't forcibly stop them from leaving the airport.

    eh, that exact scenario just happened last year, teenager was raped and feel pregnant and wanted to go to the UK to abort. She was certified as suicidal but the State refused her leaving the country to get an abortion


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  • #52
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    gctest50 wrote: »
    de people joe ......... and that was the problem

    voting should have been restricted to :

    women 21 - 35 ( nice wide margin there )

    except

    no nuns ( won't be having none ) no creche workers, nurses,teachers and a few more

    So the gay marriage referendum should have been restricted to homosexuals? That's some logic.


  • #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    And they had one before the same sex marriage referendum saying it would be 80:20. I just don't think that there would be as many supporting the rape scenario after the canvassing and campaigning is done. They are different issues and shouldn't be lumped together.

    They'd have to be dealt with simultaneously, lets face it. I still think a majority would support abortion in both scenarios.


  • #54
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    So the gay marriage referendum should have been restricted to homosexuals? That's some logic.

    not really the same thing now is it - anyway just a a rough idea

    bit more like people here being allowed to vote in say ....... israeli elections


  • #55
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    If a neighbouring country has abortion-on-demand that's no reason for us to change our constitution. It's fine the way it is, the people voted for it already.

    that's maybe fine for independent, financially sound adults

    what about others?

    What does a raped 13 year old do?

    or a raped person of limited mental state?

    What does someone under state care do?



    and even with all that, if the view is that it is fine because the UK have it then it really is the most cowardly, hypocritical position we could have


  • #56
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,768 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    If a neighbouring country has abortion-on-demand that's no reason for us to change our constitution. It's fine the way it is, the people voted for it already.

    I'd say the more than 200,000 Irish women who've had abortions in the UK would disagree with you. Would you want your sister or girlfriend to have to go through that experience, with no medical or counselling support for you from the HSE when you get back home? Its like Ireland's dirty little secret, everyone want to pretend that everything is fine the way it is, when clearly the system is completely failing the women of Ireland so the State can sweep the problem under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist.


  • #57
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,355 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    For far too long, too many people have spent far too much time telling other people what to do with their bodies. Abortion should be an option for any woman who needs to have one.


  • #58
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    What about the eggs that are not fertalised every month? what about all those poor sperm that actually make into the fallopioan tubes, but only the fastest/strongest one makes it to the bloddy egg! :rolleyes:
    What about socks?


  • #59
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I'd say the more than 200,000 Irish women who've had abortions in the UK would disagree with you. Would you want your sister or girlfriend to have to go through that experience, with no medical or counselling support for you from the HSE when you get back home? Its like Ireland's dirty little secret, everyone want to pretend that everything is fine the way it is, when clearly the system is completely failing the women of Ireland so the State can sweep the problem under the carpet and pretend it doesn't exist.

    Where's this 200,000 figure come from? Abortion on demand is wrong, unethical. Our constitution reflects that. If anyone has a dirty little secret it's people who are pushing this issue and using rape victims as a human shield.


  • #60
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    .........

    Thankfully most abortions are carried out before 13 weeks and only around 10% between 14 and 24 but it's still far too many in my view.

    you won't ever be having one


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  • #61
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    super_furry wrote: »
    For far too long, too many people have spent far too much time telling other people what to do with their bodies. Abortion should be an option for any woman who needs to have one.

    Needs, or wants?


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