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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Hi paulers06 welcome and well done on taking the plungeReally excited to follow this thread. I've always run on my own so will be great to get advice from others.
What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Running on and off for a few years, really stepped it up from about Nov last year with the aim of doing Dublin this year. Running every 2nd or 3rd day. Long runs could be up 13-17 miles.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Some half marathons this year. PB is 1:47 in Cork yesterday
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Generally not. Suffered badly in Limerick and had to take a break
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Running every couple of days. 6m - 17m. Fitness would be quite good but don't do any cross training
How many days a week can you train?
Most days
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Firstly, I'd like to just complete it. I think sub 4 could be achievable.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
None as of yet
Especially, well done on the PB yesterday, great going! The boards plan could well be suitable for you but do you do any pacier work at the moment? If not, let us know and we can recommend a gentle introduction before the plan starts properly.
You've done well on your programme so far but keep an eye on the lsr, you don't want it to be too high a proportion of your weekly volume. Start keeping a log if you don't already. It can be as basic and minimal as you like but will be a great tool for looking back.0 -
1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I have always trained and cycled for general fitness, but during 2014 I began to run home from work- (Run Commute) and take part in St Anne's Parkrun. All recreational. Not competitive at all. Im a plodder not a fighter.
2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
No races but my best 5km Parkrun is 22.57 in March this year. I have not done a competitive 10km but my Run Commute is that distance and the best time is 56.09 (note this is running home and includes stops at ped crossings and running with a backpack). I recently upped my kms and have a Sunday training run half marathon time of 2.10 which I did in April this year. I am signed up for the Event Series including the marathon so hope to refine some of these times by October.
3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No breaks, but recently got advice from an ultra running friend who told me told me to run faster for 9 mins and walk 1 min- Therefore increasing turnover.... He stated slow plodding wont help me?? I like plodding and feel that if I stop, I wont re-start..... Bit confused now as I thought I was doing well.....
4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently I cycle to and from work twice per week. Two Run Commutes (public transport in - run home). A rest day. Parkrun on Saturday and either a long run or long cycle on Sunday.
5.How many days a week do you run only?
Three or four going by the above- 2 x 10km run commutes. 1x 5km Parkrun and a long run every second week.
6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
The marathon is in response to my mid life crisis aged 42! I hope to complete it in 4.30 which means 6.24mins per km..... If this goes askew I really hope to finish under 5 hours.
7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
This one! Obviously!... Have looked at Hal Higdon, Runners World, McMillan etc but any programme really has to fit with my Run Commute and Parkrun.
Hi PJD, welcome to the midlife crisis zone thread You'll fit right in 
You're going well and your goals are realistic for now. You can always reassess along the way. Have you signed up for the race series? Anyone who can make it to these should consider it, they're a great build.
I'm sure your ultra friend gave good advice, there are other ways to introduce a more efficient leg turnover and running economy too. Have a good look at the boards plan and the Hal Higdon Novice 1 too and see which one best fits in with the run/mute. The weekly parkrun may have to take a hit now and then....sorry
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Myles Splitz wrote: »
Sounds like I may be on the right track with assumption so.
The smell you are getting is Ammonia which will be excreted via your respiratory system as well as your sweat glands.
It's usually an indication of not enough carbs and your body not being able to burn fat efficiently as an alternative. Solution is simply, consume more carbs. If you are worried about it from a weight perspective consult a sports nutritionist/ dietician.
Long term during your marathon training till will actually aid recovery you are not losing muscle mass from exercise.
Interesting.
Although, I ate more carbs this weekend than I would usually eat, and I made Pad Thai for dinner last night, which would be an unusually high amount of carbs for me for dins. Then I ran 12km this morning, around 14 hours later (no food in between), and the taste was there. Maybe it was due to the length of time I had gone without eating?
Would your body eventually get used to not having carbs and begin using fat instead?
I'm sorry for hijacking this thread
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Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »Doing a half this weekend so went out to put a nice long one in. Why is it so windy at the moment? It feels like it's every day. Have to say I did not enjoy the run one bit!!
Hi Chilli...it's got to get better weather wise hasn't it? It will only stand to you in October. When you say a 'nice long one' what did you mean? Any run between now and the weekend will not benefit you performance-wise.
Adaptations made in racing or training generally don't show full benefit for 7-10 days after. You may have been better off tapering a little, depending on how hard you intend to run/race.
Take it easy enough between now and the weekend if you can 0 -
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Thanks for the info on the heart rate training (some good reading for me) and the variables are significant that can affect it. Easily anyone of those increased HR factors could come into play.
I am getting a V02 max test done in early July which might give me a better indication of my training zones. I certainly think that the max heart rate of 187 (220-age) may be a bit off.
I think running as to how I feel and the conversation tests are a better indicator for the moment.
Yes, definitely don't use a formula to estimate your Max HR. None of these 'tools' (GPS watch, HRM, conversation test, stopwatch etc) on their own will make you a better runner. They are all a guide to be used in conjunction with how you feel and of course, just getting out and putting the miles in 0 -
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KingMambo26 wrote: »Don't know if this has been addressed elsewhere but I can't find it and I think it's relevant for neophytes like myself to know what's the right pace to run at when training. What I mean is that, if you look at any training plan, it'll include terms like easy, interval, strength, MP. While it's common sense to figure out that there's a progression from the conversational pace dictated by "easy" it's not always easy (pardon the pun) to find out what the other gears/speeds mean in relation to your current level of fitness.
Hanson has a table that tells you in layman terms what the different paces mean in relation to races you've done in the past. However, having done some internet research, there are a lot of people out there that consider Hanson inaccurate and in particular too slow for the desired marathon pace you're intending to run (i.e. it expects you to make a quantum leap to the optimum race pace on marathon day).
I found Jack Daniels formula addresses this issue quite well and I think I'll use his approach to measure my pace during the build up DCM.
For those of you interested in reading more on the subject here's a link to an old article written by JD himself and another one to an online calculator.
Threshold training - Runners world
Calculator
Any thoughts?
Hi KM26, the link to this post was in the very first post on this thread, apologies if you missed it. Have a look and if there's anything missing, ask away.
Edit:
I heard a great Americanism from my ( American) manager years ago: "keep it simple, stoopid"
IMO, unless you're targeting a sub 3:45, you're not going to need a lot of higher-end pace work: the majority of your training will be in the easy/lsr and recovery zone with a gradual progression towards Half marathon pace (HMP) and Marathon pace (MP) sections of running. Again, for first time marathon runners, these last two paces are largely a shot in the dark hence the primary focus on 'feel' for now.
The three sections of 'feel' are
- easy: hold a conversation comfortably
- tempo: working hard, could maybe blurt a short sentence out
- eyeballs out: if you can spit more than a word or two out, you're not working hard enough :eek:
We won't be doing much of eyeballs out, we'll work towards tempo and for now, the majority of training will be in the first zone.
You can use the zones, like JD etc, but keep them as a guide only.
See the end of the linked post for strides, everybody should be working towards including these in an easy weekly run.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Interesting.
Although, I ate more carbs this weekend than I would usually eat, and I made Pad Thai for dinner last night, which would be an unusually high amount of carbs for me for dins. Then I ran 12km this morning, around 14 hours later (no food in between), and the taste was there. Maybe it was due to the length of time I had gone without eating?
Would your body eventually get used to not having carbs and begin using fat instead?
I'm sorry for hijacking this thread
Your body can make these sort of adaptations but it takes time and should be done progressively over course of time.
Personally I would say that trying to make this change while training for your first marathon will probably end up causing a lot of stress on the immune system (like trying to increase intensity and volume at the same time) which could have negative effects in terms of missing training or under recovery. Personally I would tend to focus on the carbohydrate increase as a solution.
If you are worried about levels of carbohydrate consumption though, as a preference or for what ever reason, again I would consult and expert and maybe look to get advice on nutritional timing as oppose to changes in your macronutrients.
This may offset the effects but it is important when dealing with changes like this that you get advice that can be tailored to deal with the demands on your body while also taking into account the affects of changes in nutrition can have beyond a weight management aspect on the body.0 -
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The Slow One wrote: »Long time lurker, first time poster (this is probably more nerve-wrecking than the marathon will be!!)
1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Played Gaelic Football at senior club level until 11 years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. The diagnosis was early and I recovered fine but didn't have the appetite to go back and get up to speed again to play. Stayed active enough for the next few years but bit by bit deteriorated to zero exercise and ended up about 4 stone overweight. Originally started running just over 2 years ago just to lose a bit of weight but now run because of the enjoyment I get from it.
2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5k - 28:35 (Rathfarnham Sept 14 and Phoenix Park March 15)
5 mile - 50:47 (Irish Runner 5 mile June 14)
10k - 1:02:20 (G.I.R April 15)
Half - 2:24:43 (Edinburgh last Sunday)
3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Going to break with tradition and say yes when I pushed the LSR distance beyond 10 miles preparing for the Edinburgh Half. Largely down to me not going slow enough at the start of these runs and also pushing things a bit too hard to make up for lost time due to injury rather than building up more slowly.
4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Generally I run 4 times a week. A few weeks before the Half I was up to 28 miles with an LSR of 12 miles
5.How many days a week can you train?
Up to 5 times a week.
6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
At the moment under 5 hours but as the summer goes on I'll see how the PBs look and maybe revise. Not too concerned about the Edinburgh time as I had missed a few weeks of training and wasn't as well prepared as I could have been.
7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
The Boards Plan looks ideal.
Hi TSO and welcome. Well done on what you have achieved so far, and also of course on becoming a true running convert. You look like you have a solid base but unless you have been varying the paces of your runs, you might find the Hal Higdon Novice 1 plan more suitable for now. Have a look and see what you think. It may be a case that you start off with it and transition to the boards in a few weeks if you find it's not challenging enough. Let us know anyway 0 -
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This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »Interesting stuff about the HRM. I ran with a Garmin heart rate chest strap during the 10k on Monday and on tonight's 4 mile hard run. I don't think it's working. Halfway through my run tonight it said my heart rate was 53bpm. Yeah...right! My resting heart rate is 64bpm!
During the 10k it kept cutting out all the time and my HR ranged all over the place from 0 to 97 bpm. :rolleyes:
Any tips on how to get it working properly? I'm wearing it in the right place at the right tightness so I'm not sure what's going on with it!
Are you wetting the sensors with saliva before you start off?
Edit: Dubgal got in before me 0 -
Have you sealed it properly? Sometimes it needs a bit of saliva to seal it...I think you'll get plenty of feedback here as to what may be up.Are you wetting the sensors with saliva before you start off?
Edit: Dubgal got in before me
Yup. I am, but maybe not enough. I'll try again tomorrow and use more spit.
Ptooey! 0 -
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Hi long_b, a general rule of thumb is a niggle that goes away as the run progresses is ok but needs to be monitored. Pain that doesn't go away or indeed, increases is not ok and needs to be seen by a qualified person.
You're about to put your body through a lot of hard work over the coming months. I've said it before and I'll say it again, marathon training exposes every weakness.
Rest may sort it, but then again it may not. It might be something simple or it may be a sign of some underlying weakness or imbalance so no harm getting it checked out now, before the hard work starts. A qualified therapist with running experience would be ideal. They get it
If you're stuck for recommendations, let us know and we'll point you in the right direction. Best of luck.
Rested for a week, plenty of stretches and some very amateurish swimming.
Then did a slow 7km and 3 days later a slow 10km, both on grass.
Pattern emerging was
No pain for first 4km or so
Slightly deterioration from 4 to 6km then
Stabilises or even reduces after 6km
Had to ice it after the second run though so it's off to the physio tomorrow.
One thing I've definitely learned so far - don't go mad signing up (and paying) for loads of races assuming you're going to stay fit.
Actually, two things. The second being I have no patience!0 -
bucketybuck wrote: »Starting to really hate Strava these days. Did what I knew was a 5k PB last night. The garmin says its 5k, Mapmyrun says its 5k, but ****ing Strava? Strava says its 4.999999999k. :mad: No little trophy for me! :pac:
I am feeling good doing these faster runs though, I know when the plan starts later this month its going to all be at a slower pace so its good to push it when I can!
Hehe what does Strava know?! :rolleyes: On a serious note, whilst it's nice to see and feel improvements in your running, save the PBs for races. Seriously Try a parkrun near you, ideal opportunity to test yourself from time to time. 0 -
Rested for a week, plenty of stretches and some very amateurish swimming.
Then did a slow 7km and 3 days later a slow 10km, both on grass.
Pattern emerging was
No pain for first 4km or so
Slightly deterioration from 4 to 6km then
Stabilises or even reduces after 6km
Had to ice it after the second run though so it's off to the physio tomorrow.
One thing I've definitely learned so far - don't go mad signing up (and paying) for loads of races assuming you're going to stay fit.
Actually, two things. The second being I have no patience!
Sounds like a good call. Let us know how you get on. Calls like this will get you to the start of those signed-up races 0 -
Thanks for the reply
Date|Distance|Pace|Notes
April 18th | 12 miles | 8'46 | First long run in a month.
April 20th | 6.75 miles | 8'24
23rd April | 10.2 miles | 9'26 | A not great run home from work (City Centre to Swords, mostly uphill, was tired)
28th April | 13.2 miles | 8'52 | A half-marathon PB according to the Nike App
30th April | 6.2 miles | 7'58 |
1st May | 10 miles | 8'35 | A good run home from work! Ate later at lunch and had plenty to drink during the day.
4th May | 7.5 miles | 8'35
5th May | 14.1 | 9'09
7th May | 3.1 miles | 7'27 | Treadmill in gym, alternating between 8 minutes per mile and 6'43 minutes per mile
9th May | 7.3 miles | 8'40 | Run in hilly local park (about 500 ft climb in total)
10th May | 16.6 | 8'56 | Longest training run yet.
11th May | 3.5 miles | 8'51 | Recovery run. Very difficult to slow down! It was raining, that didn't help.
13th May | 6.25 miles | 7'44 | 10k PB according to Nike App
16th May | 6.8 miles | 8'49 | Run in hilly local park (about 650 ft climb in total)
Prior to this I had some sort of injury on my left foot. I got it just before the Patrick's Day 5k, and raced on it. I was happy with my time etc. but could barely walk for the next few days. I didn't go to a physio - Dr. Google reckoned it could have been a stress fracture on my fifth metatarsal, but it was probably some sort of strain. It was very sore to walk on for a week or two. Either way it needed to be rested, so I took it easy for a month, and it's fine now.Training update:
Date | Distance | Speed | Notes
17th May | 6.15 miles | 8'38 | A little hungover, so a simple run instead of an LSR.
18th May | 13.2 miles | 9'17 | LSR, picked up the pace a bit in the second half.
20th May | 3.1 miles | 7'15 | Treadmill, followed by some weights
21st May | 10 miles | 8'51 | Run home from work
23rd May | | | Cross training in gym (row, weights, cycle)
24th May | 6.24 miles | 9'19 | DNF LSR!!!
Previous training update: (gah, I still can't link - it was the 113th post in this thread).
Week didn't start out too great, having family over turned into a few drinks, so a planned LSR on the Sunday morning was hastily arranged into a plain old jog. Got the LSR in on Monday though. As threatened I did a bit of gym work in the week which went well. However, I also started to get a sore chest/lung and headaches...
...This is the third time this year I've not been able to run due to injury / medical problem, so it looks like the odds aren't great at staying fully fit between now and DCM day (5 months to the day!). In March I had radioactive iodine treatment to clear up a small dose of thyroid cancer (the treatment itself didn't stop me from running - but being off thyroid hormone for a few weeks before meant I didn't get out much) and on my first run after the treatment I hurt my left foot, taking me for another few weeks!
Anyway, a good early reminder to run when you can and be ready to reassess goals as circumstances change. This obviously doesn't change my plans for now, though I first need to fully recover. Hopefully I'll be able to check in with a less dramatic training update next week - hopefully I won't have contracted smallpox, scurvy or another disease from the 19th century in the meantime.(Maybe I should start a training log)
Here's this week's fun - I last posted after a hilarious DNF LSR due to a minor bout of pleurisy (I still can't link due to being a newb). No real LSR this week - I did 10m around Howth which kind of counts, I felt pretty tired the day after when I planned to do a longer run so just did a 10k loop with strides. Overall not a bad week but not very structured.
Date | Distance | Speed | Notes
28th May | 6.22 | 7'34 | 1k/1m/5k/5m/10k PB - Pretended time off was a taper and raced this.
29th May | | | Gym - rowing, weights, cycling
31st May | 10.6 | 8'42 | Run up and around Howth - 629 ft climb. Trail running is fun!
1st June | 6.5 | 8'04 | Legs felt tired. Did some ad-hoc strides (wasn't really counting/timing).
3rd June | 10 | 8'46 | Run home from work. Had to stop to get some apple juice on the way due to feeling hungry, so one 12'30 mile, the rest around 8'20. Pilates in the morning might have taken a bit more out of me than anticipated.
Hi Singer, I'd really like to see you (all!) start a log, so get logging!
Two things are jumping out at me: 1) you are racing your training runs and 2) most of your runs are too fast. Both of these will hinder your progress to the start line in October, and any other start lines in the meantime. It's counter-intuitive I know but you really need to slow down to go faster. There is a great log in the training logs called Festina Lente which means 'hasten slowly'. As an approach to successful running its writer, RayCun, is a living and breathing testament
Your target is 4 hours, so that is around 9m/m pace. Your lsr's, easy and recovery runs need to be 9.45 and slower.0 -
Hi Singer, I'd really like to see you (all!) start a log, so get logging!
Two things are jumping out at me: 1) you are racing your training runs and 2) most of your runs are too fast. Both of these will hinder your progress to the start line in October, and any other start lines in the meantime. It's counter-intuitive I know but you really need to slow down to go faster. There is a great log in the training logs called Festina Lente which means 'hasten slowly'. As an approach to successful running its writer, RayCun, is a living and breathing testament
Your target is 4 hours, so that is around 9m/m pace. Your lsr's, easy and recovery runs need to be 9.45 and slower.
To add to that I ran most of my long runs at a pace between 8:45 and 9:00 for my first marathon. I ran the marathon at 7:47 pace. A guy I coached to a marathon run at about 5:45 pace regularly ran long runs at 7:00 pace.
Long runs (actually all runs) are best started off slow with the pace gradually picked up after the first few miles. At this stage in everybody's development they're more about time on your feet than anything else so back off the pace and enjoy the run. 0 -
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