Blasphemy - An ecumenical matter

nozzferrahhtoo · 29-05-2015 07:29AM

macker33 wrote: »

What i cant figure out is why gays arent offended by evolution, seeing as evolution discredits homosexuality. Evolution says gay is wrong and nobody is bothered, religion says gay is wrong and everybody freaks.

Well firstly evolution is a fact, religion is a set of ideas. So becoming offended at the former makes no sense. I do not become offended when rain falls on my head either, but I would be more offended were someone to dunk a bucket of water over my head.

Secondly however, evolution says no such thing. At all. There is nothing in evolution that precludes or harms homosexuality at all. Let alone makes human value judgments about it like "wrong". I am afraid you have simply made this up.

LDN_Irish · 29-05-2015 07:54AM

macker33 wrote: »

What i cant figure out is why gays arent offended by evolution, seeing as evolution discredits homosexuality.
Evolution says gay is wrong and nobody is bothered, religion says gay is wrong and everybody freaks.

Hahahahahhaa

This is one the stupidest, most nonsensical posts I've ever seen on here on AH and there are loads to choose from.

macker33 · 30-05-2015 01:45AM

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

lizzyman · 30-05-2015 04:14AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

No species has a 'purpose'. Ending up in that magical land in the clouds that religion promises? Sorry to burst your bubble but it doesn't exist, just like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny.

The human race will eventually die out or evolve to something else and in the end the four score and ten years that all of us spend here matter for sweet fúck all.

Enjoy the ride while it lasts and leave the gays alone ffs. They've had enough shíte from the likes of you.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 06:21AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

What Fact would that be ?

galljga1 · 30-05-2015 06:25AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

Eh, no. I think you meant nonsense.

As for reasons for being gay, people are just gay or they are not, no need for justification.

LDN_Irish · 30-05-2015 08:11AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

Looks around. Sees that people are gay. Doesn't believe in gayness. Flicks through the bible. Reads about talking snakes and reserrecting sons of virgins. Describes it as based in fact.

Praise the good gay that my parents weren't religious. I can't imagine how horrific it must be to have this cement poured in to your head until it sets.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 08:26AM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Looks around. Sees that people are gay. Doesn't believe in gayness. Flicks through the bible. Reads about talking snakes and reserrecting sons of virgins. Describes it as based in fact.

Praise the good gay that my parents weren't religious. I can't imagine how horrific it must be to have this cement poured in to your head until it sets.

And the fact that the sky wizard book does not even say anything about the "Gehys.." it's in a translation/reworking from some guy far far far away from when it was written.

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-05-2015 08:32AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

Which facts would these be? Please share these facts and prove your "god" exists.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 08:35AM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Which facts would these be? Please share these facts and prove your "god" exists.

Maybe consult that talking shrub ?

Timberrrrrrrr · 30-05-2015 08:50AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Maybe consult that talking shrub ?

Am heading the kiddie farm later with little T maybe the donkey will talk to me.

CruelCoin · 30-05-2015 09:13AM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

Fact huh?

I have gay friends. I have no doubt whatsoever as to their gayness.
I have however, yet to see a cosmic jewish zombie.

Macker, take a look at this: https://nargaque.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/other_gods.png
To quote from the bottom: "Once you understand why you dismiss all other possible gods, then you will understand why i dismiss yours."

Cold War Kid · 30-05-2015 12:45PM

If people can't criticise religion, then it should be a two-way street - lack of belief shouldn't be criticised either.

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay

But they are. They don't just decide "Right, I'll fancy and have sex with and relationships with people of the same sex as me for the hell of it, even though I'm actually attracted to members of the opposite sex."
No matter how much you object to homosexuality, it doesn't change that it's real - otherwise gay people wouldn't exist. If you're christian too, it would be in keeping with the tenets of your faith to be less judgemental and more understanding, to "hate the sin, not the sinner". That is what Jesus Christ advocated.

Mesrine65 · 30-05-2015 12:47PM

macker33 wrote: »

At least christianity has basis in fact

No more, please :pac::pac::pac:

InTheTrees · 30-05-2015 12:53PM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay,

SO how would you explain it then?

Personal vanity? Rebelliousness?

Cold War Kid · 30-05-2015 01:23PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

SO how would you explain it then?

Personal vanity? Rebelliousness?

Even if their belief is that it is a deviation from nature or whatever, it doesn't change that it very much exists.
Having a problem with homosexuality I understand - I don't agree with it obviously but sometimes people, rightly or wrongly, can't handle something that veers off their notion of how things should be. I get that. I also appreciate it is at odds with people's religion (it's not an excuse for them to abandon the "Love", "Understanding", "Tolerance" bits of their religion either though).
But to state it isn't real, when the evidence is in front of them, is a whole new level of objection - and more than a little bizarre.

Paramite Pie · 30-05-2015 02:09PM

macker33 wrote: »

Well you know a country is fvcked in the head when it will protect gays but not christians.

*Ahem*

Article 40
All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

Article 44

1° Freedom of conscience and the free profession and practice of religion are, subject to public order and morality, guaranteed to every citizen.

2° The State guarantees not to endow any religion.

3° The State shall not impose any disabilities or make any discrimination on the ground of religious profession, belief or status.

Christians are held equally under Law, have free profession & practice of their religion but the State clearly does not endorse any specific religion. However you are protected from State discrimination.

Under the Constitution and Irish Law, you are legally & morally equal to gay people, and thus afforded the same protection.;)

Akrasia wrote: »

The absurdity of a creationist trying to laugh at a evolutionary biologist only makes the creationists position even more ridiculous.

But most people seem to think we live in the US in that regard or fail to distinguish between different denominations. The Catholic Church has accepted Darwinism & Evolution since day one which is well documented.

Equating the Catholic Church with the Evangelicals in the US shows a massive generalization towards religions, typically done to take a cheap shot at the Catholics (at least on this board) which makes many of my fellow atheists look rediculous themselves.

"Catholics Officially accept Evolutionary theory? Let's conveniently dismiss that to take a cheap shot at them. Oh those stupid Catholics, when will they ever learn to accept our science?":rolleyes:

^^half of the boardsies Atheists...

Creationism is largely irrelevant in Ireland beyond the DUP & some lay people who didn't finish school. There are many legitimate issues with the Church but you brought up Creationism in defense of the alleged anti-catholicism on this board. Why??

macker33 wrote: »

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesn't.

Belief is not a fact. FACT.

There's also no 'reason' for people to be blond or ginger, yet both exist, therefore there's still a 'reason' it exists.

darkpagandeath · 30-05-2015 02:12PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

*Ahem*

Christians are held equally under Law, have free profession & practice of their religion but the State clearly does not endorse any specific religion. However you are protected from State discrimination.

Under the Constitution and Irish Law, you are legally & morally equal to gay people, and thus afforded the same protection.;)

But most people seem to think we live in the US in that regard or fail to distinguish between different denominations. The Catholic Church has accepted Darwinism & Evolution since day one which is well documented.

Equating the Catholic Church with the Evangelicals in the US shows a massive generalization towards religions, typically done to take a cheap shot at the Catholics (at least on this board) which makes many of my fellow atheists look rediculous themselves.

"Catholics Officially accept Evolutionary theory? Let's conveniently dismiss that to take a cheap shot at them. Oh those stupid Catholics, when will they ever learn to accept our science?":rolleyes:

^^half of the boardsies Atheists...

Creationism is largely irrelevant in Ireland beyond the DUP & some lay people who didn't finish school. There are many legitimate issues with the Church but you brought up Creationism in response to Macker33. Why??

Belief is not a fact. FACT.

There's also no 'reason' for people to be blond or ginger, yet both exist, therefore there's still a 'reason' it exists.

Whut ? Is this the 1300s ?

nozzferrahhtoo · 30-05-2015 02:22PM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

No Homosexual people require neither a purpose, nor scientific explanation, nor your acceptance to be what they are. They just are what they are. Deal with it.

Certainly a scientific explanation would be interesting and worth having, but it is by no means a requirement or necessity in any world outside your head. But the "gay gene" is a media term not a science one. There is no reason to think there is a "gay gene" or that we are likely to find one. That, however, does not mean homosexuality is not genetic.

As for your "fact" I would be all ears to hear it because I have not once heard a single shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning to suggest a non-human intelligent intentional agent is responsible for the creation and/or subsequent maintenance of our universe. Let alone that this entity took human form and engaged in moonlighting as a carpenter.

So whatever your "fact" is, I would certainly be interested to hear it.

Cienciano · 30-05-2015 02:27PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The thing is an intolerance of religion in this country is mostly focused at Catholics.
There is a lack of education by some who show this intolerance, as seen last Friday when complaints were made that a bible was present on the table where election/referendum officials were, this was out of ignorance, taking offense at a book.
We need people to be educated on all sides.
The Catholic Church accepts evolution, but look at this forum, one would think they didn't.
I believe we should accept that people have different views, they can express these views, but I don't believe it is right when people go out of their way to offend others.
The thing is there is no point reporting posts on this site that belittle people who have a religious faith.
This is an accepted intolerance. I don't mind people not wanting religion in their lives, that is how they feel, but it is wrong when a person goes out of their way to belittle people without cause or need.
It only causes trouble because someone has a problem with what someone else believes. The same person causing that trouble would take offense if they were being told what to believe and what not to believe.
I think before any blasphemy law, the people who run this site should enforce a right for varied opinion on religion but should crackdown on posts which are nothing more than trolling, but which seem to be constantly allowed.
It is the only accepted intolerance...freedom of speech and expression comes with a responsibility, and some people are not big enough to be responsible with this right on this forum.

In fairness, if there's an intolerance towards catholics in this country, they must be the luckiest persecuted groups in the world. Pretty much every town in the country has a Catholic Church where they can practice their persecuted religion. The can walk down any street in the country without being attacked or abused. They have a monopoly on the education system that wouldn't be legally allowed in any other "industry" in the country. But on a messageboard they might get laughed at! Oh, the humanity. Red heads get more persecution than catholics in this country.
As for trolling, it goes both ways, just look in this thread. We all know trolling is easy if you do it the right way, mods know it too. Best way to combat trolling is to ignore it, but too many people can't help themselves

Cold War Kid · 30-05-2015 02:32PM

Ridicule of individual catholics for nothing other than their belief system is sh-tty. I see that here sometimes and it's not fair. My gran was a devout catholic, my uncle is a catholic priest, I have a cousin whom I get on very well with who is quite devout, my friend's sister is a devout catholic too - as is her mother. They are all fantastic people and christian in the correct sense of the word. A colleague at work is involved with a new christian church and they do amazing work and it seems like a lovely bunch of people.

What I also see here though is ridiculing when some catholics force their views on people, tell them they're wrong for e.g. wanting the pubs to be open on good Friday even though they aren't practising catholics, and post stuff that is completely at odds with the tenets of christianity.
This is not catholic-bashing - it's completely justified challenging, and I have a feeling it is what is getting referred to as "anti catholic" on this thread. It's not, it's a difference of opinion.

RustyNut · 30-05-2015 03:09PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Ridicule of individual catholics for nothing other than their belief system is sh-tty. I see that here sometimes and it's not fair. My gran was a devout catholic, my uncle is a catholic priest, I have a cousin whom I get on very well with who is quite devout, my friend's sister is a devout catholic too - as is her mother. They are all fantastic people and christian in the correct sense of the word. A colleague at work is involved with a new christian church and they do amazing work and it seems like a lovely bunch of people.

What I also see here though is ridiculing when some catholics force their views on people, tell them they're wrong for e.g. wanting the pubs to be open on good Friday even though they aren't practising catholics, and post stuff that is completely at odds with the tenets of christianity.
This is not catholic-bashing - it's completely justified challenging, and I have a feeling it is what is getting referred to as "anti catholic" on this thread. It's not, it's a difference of opinion.

Surly people who believe in the bible and are willing to live their lives according to its words are open to a little ridicule.

Now where is the nearest slave market?

Leviticus 25:44-46New International Version (NIV)

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Jimoslimos · 30-05-2015 03:44PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

But most people seem to think we live in the US in that regard or fail to distinguish between different denominations. The Catholic Church has accepted Darwinism & Evolution since day one which is well documented.

Equating the Catholic Church with the Evangelicals in the US shows a massive generalization towards religions, typically done to take a cheap shot at the Catholics (at least on this board) which makes many of my fellow atheists look rediculous themselves.

This.

I'm atheist and I'm all for mocking religion but it seems people have difficulty in distinguishing between conservative Catholicism and hardline Protestant Evangelicals. Especially during the marriage equality referendum.

Ridiculing passages out of Leviticus is fine, but doing it to make a point against Iona or the Catholic Church just looks stupid. There's many many criticisms to be made against Iona, an odious organisation, Old Testament Biblical literalism isn't one of them however.

Know your enemy.

Grayson · 30-05-2015 04:29PM

macker33 wrote: »

Look, theres no reason for anybody to be gay, the appendix may once have had a purpose but gays never had.
Gays really need science to justify why they are the way they are? You will end up disappointed.

At least christianity has basis in fact, something the gay gene doesnt.

Islam is more factual. When Mohammad was alive people memorised his words and wrote them verbatim after he died. Christianity is based on the bible. The gospels were written many, many years after Jesus died. It's filled with conflicting accounts of his life. It's filled with historical inaccuracies. There was no census at the time of his birth. Herod didn't order the death of infants.

The only contemporary account of Jesus is Josephus. And that gives very little information.

Homosexuality exists in many species, including primates. It's been studied by scientists and doctors. The overwhelming consensus is that homosexuality is real. It's not a decision. It's not a psychological disorder.

Grayson · 30-05-2015 04:38PM

RustyNut wrote: »

Surly people who believe in the bible and are willing to live their lives according to its words are open to a little ridicule.

Now where is the nearest slave market?

Catholicism believes that when Jesus came he created a new covenant with God. Therefore the old laws don't matter. Everything from the old testament is there as an FYI.

Their main argument against homosexuality comes from something called "Natural Law". That was developed by Aquinas and is therefore not related to the bible.

Most religions do stuff like this. In Islam contraception is allowed because of an interpretation of stuff Mohammad said. Same with stem cell research which is allowed. It's based on what Mohammad would have said if he'd known about it. An islamic version of "What would Jesus do"

Natural law is an interesting argument. However it's based in a study of the natural world which dates back to the greeks. It's very outdated and we have moved on quite a bit since then in regard to science.

lizzyman · 30-05-2015 06:11PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

The Catholic Church has accepted Darwinism & Evolution since day one which is well documented.
.

Hahahahahaha

Seriously? This from the same institution that sentenced Galileo to life under house arrest for daring to suggest that the earth revolved around the sun, burned heretics at the stake and killed thousands during the Spanish Inquisition.

But they accepted Darwinism?

Yeah right.

Well documented? Prove it or GTFO.

The_Valeyard · 30-05-2015 06:21PM

lizzyman wrote: »

Hahahahahaha

Seriously? This from the same institution that sentenced Galileo to life under house arrest for daring to suggest that the earth revolved around the sun, burned heretics at the stake and killed thousands during the Spanish Inquisition.

But they accepted Darwinism?

Yeah right.

Well documented? Prove it or GTFO.

They apologised for the whole Galileo thing a decade or so ago. But late though..

Spanish inquisition was also a tool of the Spanish monarchy to remove 'agitators' and hep firm contol of Spain

Just Google Catholic church and evolution, you will get your answer, think there viewpoint is that evolution is correct but there is what they call a 'divine' hand in the process. I.E God started the process off or something like that.

Blasphemy - An ecumenical matter

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