S05E07 - The Gift - Have READ the books

3qsmavrod5twfe · 26-05-2015 02:53PM

Nody wrote: »

He was confirmed as a shapeshifter in the books by other shapeshifter who hated him (can't recall his name, seven something I think) and he had his dreams when he was in his direwolf's mind hunting etc.

I think yer man's name was Varamyr Sixskins.They've never really broached the subject of any of the other Stark kids having a bit of warg in them in the show, even though there have been plenty of opportunity for wolf dreams for Arya and Jon given they have already shown it with Bran.

I'm not exactly sure how they will reconcile the Jon stabbing, but I guess that is yet to be seen in the books. In the books I can see him warging into Ghost as it has been alluded to that that would be "a second life fit for a King" and given Jon's parentage (well is there anyone out there who doesn't believe R+L=J) that fits. Mel is gone from the wall in both the show and the book so I can't see her resurrecting him. All I can really guess for the show is a Coldhands type situation where he is a sentient wight - but you have to feel if they were going to bring in undead that aren't mindless killers like the wights seen so far we would have got a bit of Lady Stoneheart.

Mormegil · 26-05-2015 03:00PM

Salvador Happy Rank wrote: »

I think yer man's name was Varamyr Sixskins.They've never really broached the subject of any of the other Stark kids having a bit of warg in them in the show, even though there have been plenty of opportunity for wolf dreams for Arya and Jon given they have already shown it with Bran.

I'm not exactly sure how they will reconcile the Jon stabbing, but I guess that is yet to be seen in the books. In the books I can see him warging into Ghost as it has been alluded to that that would be "a second life fit for a King" and given Jon's parentage (well is there anyone out there who doesn't believe R+L=J) that fits. Mel is gone from the wall in both the show and the book so I can't see her resurrecting him. All I can really guess for the show is a Coldhands type situation where he is a sentient wight - but you have to feel if they were going to bring in undead that aren't mindless killers like the wights seen so far we would have got a bit of Lady Stoneheart.

Mel is still at the Wall in the books (along with Shireen and her mother).

Her Magic is more powerful at the Wall than elsewhere so she stays there.

Casting Spoiler

Varamyr Sixskins should be appearing in this season so they may yet have him recognise Jon as a Warg.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 26-05-2015 03:41PM

Mormegil wrote: »

Mel is still at the Wall in the books (along with Shireen and her mother).

Her Magic is more powerful at the Wall than elsewhere so she stays there.

Casting Spoiler
Varamyr Sixskins should be appearing in this season so they may yet have him recognise Jon as a Warg.

I always thought that it was the guy that starred in the UK office that recognised that john was a warg? he was there when he went north and spied on the wildlings? used to control an eagle?

Stone Deaf 4evr · 26-05-2015 03:42PM

Also,

if cersei goes to trial by combat - that could be an opportunity to reintroduce the mountain to stand as her champion, and the hound for the sparrows.

3qsmavrod5twfe · 26-05-2015 03:44PM

Mormegil wrote: »

Mel is still at the Wall in the books (along with Shireen and her mother).

Her Magic is more powerful at the Wall than elsewhere so she stays there.

I stand corrected.

Mr Freeze · 26-05-2015 03:47PM

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I always thought that it was the guy that starred in the UK office that recognised that john was a warg? he was there when he went north and spied on the wildlings? used to control an eagle?

That was Orell. He was a warg too, wargged into his eagle.

Varamyr wargs into forest animals, like Bears and Wolves.

Mormegil · 26-05-2015 04:03PM

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I always thought that it was the guy that starred in the UK office that recognised that john was a warg? he was there when he went north and spied on the wildlings? used to control an eagle?

I think IIRC there could be a look that Orell gives Jon that maybe he recognises what he is but I don't believe there is an outright statement.

Jon is certainly not listed as a Warg on the GoT Wiki.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 26-05-2015 04:10PM

Thought that was one of the stronger episodes this season. Lena Headey should enter the smirk Olympics, she's fecking class.

Liam Cunningham talked about a scene he has I think next week, said it was one of the most shocking he can remember on the show. I'd interpreted that as he and Stannis reaching Winterfell and coming across Sansa in the middle of the Jeyne Poole arc,

that doesn't seem likely now but it could well be Shireen getting burned.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 26-05-2015 04:18PM

Don't think they'll burn a child alive on screen.

Nody · 26-05-2015 04:18PM

Mormegil wrote: »

I think IIRC there could be a look that Orell gives Jon that maybe he recognises what he is but I don't believe there is an outright statement.

Jon is certainly not listed as a Warg on the GoT Wiki.

Jon Snow: Varamyr Sixskins notes that Jon Snow is a strong skinchanger, but untrained in and unaware of his true abilities; he had known what Jon was the moment he saw the great white direwolf Ghost stalking silent at his side. Jon's ability has manifested few times, as he slipped into Ghost while scouting for wildlings with Qhorin Halfhand. Through Ghost's eyes, he spies on the wildling horde. When an eagle attacks Ghost, Jon wakes screaming.

Taken from here and is aligned with the book; the fact he's not actively doing it does not change the fact he is one

Turtyturd · 26-05-2015 04:19PM

Salvador Happy Rank wrote: »

I'm not exactly sure how they will reconcile the Jon stabbing, but I guess that is yet to be seen in the books. In the books I can see him warging into Ghost as it has been alluded to that that would be "a second life fit for a King" and given Jon's parentage (well is there anyone out there who doesn't believe R+L=J) that fits. Mel is gone from the wall in both the show and the book so I can't see her resurrecting him. All I can really guess for the show is a Coldhands type situation where he is a sentient wight - but you have to feel if they were going to bring in undead that aren't mindless killers like the wights seen so far we would have got a bit of Lady Stoneheart.

I think this will be the final excursion beyond the wall in the show and I wouldn't be surprised to have them encounter the Night King which will demonstrate that they aren't just mindless killers.

I think they will reconcile the stabbing with both Stannis and Jon dying around the same time, his wife giving Melisandre the go ahead to sacrifice Shirreen to resurrect Stannis but the blood magic resurrecting Jon instead.

duploelabs · 26-05-2015 05:06PM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Don't think they'll burn a child alive on screen.

Was implied with Theon's actions previously

Sleepy · 26-05-2015 05:30PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think this will be the final excursion beyond the wall in the show and I wouldn't be surprised to have them encounter the Night King which will demonstrate that they aren't just mindless killers.

I think they will reconcile the stabbing with both Stannis and Jon dying around the same time, his wife giving Melisandre the go ahead to sacrifice Shirreen to resurrect Stannis but the blood magic resurrecting Jon instead.

That could be a rather neat way to do it in the show tbh.

Mormegil · 26-05-2015 05:49PM

Nody wrote: »

Taken from here and is aligned with the book; the fact he's not actively doing it does not change the fact he is one

That's from the book. No one is denying Jon is a Warg/Skinchanger in the book.

I was replying to the Poster who believed Orell had said Jon was a Warg on the show.

Which he hasn't been identified as yet. My original spoiler makes the point that this might change later this season.

3qsmavrod5twfe · 26-05-2015 06:18PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think they will reconcile the stabbing with both Stannis and Jon dying around the same time, his wife giving Melisandre the go ahead to sacrifice Shirreen to resurrect Stannis but the blood magic resurrecting Jon instead.

If we were theorizing the book here I would denounce you as crazy, but the fact that this is the show, I'll give you that! It is probably what'll happen. :pac:

Standman · 26-05-2015 06:27PM

stankratz wrote: »

From Reddit regarding that last scene:

I like that he and the High Sparrow must have gone over when Lancel would make his dramatic entrance. "When I say the thing about how much you had to say, then you come in. Not before! I've got a whole thing about how old and awesome this place is."

Yea I was wondering about that. Same thing when Cersei walks towards the door to leave, a nun opens it from the other side to stop her at that exact second. Must have been peeping through the cracks in the wood.

A good bit of this episode felt a bit rushed and lazy.

At the wall when Gilly gets accosted by the 2 guys, Sam just bursts in with his hand on his sword before he's even seen anything. Also ghost conveniently appearing and then disappearing when he's not needed for the scene anymore - just ran back outside I suppose.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 26-05-2015 06:31PM

Standman wrote: »

Yea I was wondering about that. Same thing when Cersei walks towards the door to leave, a nun opens it from the other side to stop her at that exact second. Must have been peeping through the cracks in the wood.

A good bit of this episode felt a bit rushed and lazy.

At the wall when Gilly gets accosted by the 2 guys, Sam just bursts in with his hand on his sword before he's even seen anything. Also ghost conveniently appearing and then disappearing when he's not needed for the scene anymore - just ran back outside I suppose.

A lot of that scene felt kind of lazy and TV-tropesy to me. Sam going "oh no I'm fine" and then immediately doing a comedy faint is like something from a daytime sitcom. Cutting straight to some wounded soldier fantasy then? I seriously can't imagine things like that happening in the first season

MrWalsh · 26-05-2015 08:41PM

I enjoyed the episode overall but generally speaking I think the combination of convenient things happening (Ghost showing up when he did, Sam showing up when he did for that matter), characters doing strange nonsensical things (what was the point of the sand snake poisoning Bronn only to seduce him and give him an antidote in prison?), underutilisation of interesting actors, Mance Rayder, Prince Doran as two examples, and many book deviations just not as layered a story as they could be, all conspiring to make the season feel a bit flat for me.

Ramsay Bolton has to be one of the worst actors in the show. I just don't believe him. He is comical rather than sinister.

I'm still enjoying it but I think it's lessening a bit in quality as time goes on.

Ave Sodalis · 26-05-2015 09:09PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

I think they will reconcile the stabbing with both Stannis and Jon dying around the same time, his wife giving Melisandre the go ahead to sacrifice Shirreen to resurrect Stannis but the blood magic resurrecting Jon instead.

I'm not sure. With the way the non book part of the show is going, they've been making stuff blaringly obvious before it happens. With that in mind, I think Olly is going to kill him. They are randomly focusing on him quite a bit these last two episodes.

ItsChecoTime · 26-05-2015 10:26PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Ramsay Bolton has to be one of the worst actors in the show. I just don't believe him. He is comical rather than sinister.

Completely disagree. Iwan Rheon (Ramsay) and Alfie Allen's (Theon) acting has been absolutely brilliant this season. Ramsay is completely psychotic which may be construed as comedic sometimes but I think Iwan Rheon is doing a fantastic job of depicting Ramsay

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 26-05-2015 10:34PM

Ive found Alfie Allen to be a wee bit OTT and "face acty" from time to time this season (thought he was great up til now and in fairness Reek is a hard role), but I think Iwan is nailing it. It's a good call to have Ramsey be some bit entertaining and charismatic, makes him a bit scarier too, imo.

Hans Bricks · 26-05-2015 10:44PM

I think Shireen is doomed at this stage. I seem to remember a clip of her mother front side down on the snow looking forward with tears in her eyes.

LionelNashe · 26-05-2015 10:53PM

I don't think that prince's blood is needed for resurrecting people - the guy in the forest was resurrected a few times by Thorros of Myr without any human sacrifice needed

FunLover18 · 26-05-2015 11:04PM

I'm not a fan of TV Ramsey either, I don't hate him but for me he's nowhere near as scary as he was in the books where everytime I read his name I'd be afraid of what he was going to do. That may be because we always saw him through Reek's POV in the books, which is difficult to so on Tv. In the series I just amn't really afraid of him or right he might do. He's just Joffrey 2.0.

johnnyskeleton · 27-05-2015 12:08AM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Don't think they'll burn a child alive on screen.

Its ok. Its GOT. She'll come back as Miss. Stoneheart. Or stonearm. Or something

3qsmavrod5twfe · 27-05-2015 08:47AM

Chandler Grumpy Pointlessly wrote: »

Ive found Alfie Allen to be a wee bit OTT and "face acty" from time to time this season (thought he was great up til now and in fairness Reek is a hard role)

When you think of the shift that he has had to make from playing Theon - the swaggering prick that is running round the place stuffing his paws down the front of his sister's pants - to Theon the cowed boy looking for Balon's approval - to Reek the broken man, you have to give it to Alfie Allen, he has done it pretty well. He's is doing a great job of playing meek and subservient. I can't think of any other way he should play it other than by cringing and cowering, you do get a feeling he is genuinely scared of Ramsey

MrWalsh · 27-05-2015 09:08AM

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Completely disagree. Iwan Rheon (Ramsay) and Alfie Allen's (Theon) acting has been absolutely brilliant this season. Ramsay is completely psychotic which may be construed as comedic sometimes but I think Iwan Rheon is doing a fantastic job of depicting Ramsay

Tbh I haven't enjoyed Ramsay since he first appeared on screen. I find him a bit too pantomime theatrical. It's rare that I find a depiction on the show to be totally "off" with my mental image but I'm afraid tv Ramsay just doesn't do it for me at all. I'm enjoying Theon alright but I think he is just a better actor.

Hyzepher · 27-05-2015 10:12AM

Tyrion could do wonders for Meereen in terms of diplomacy etc but I fear Daenery won't trust him - especially since Jorah was the one to bring him to her.

If she is up to date with the goings on in Kings Landing then he's not really much use to her. Varys may arrive and put her straight but I'm not sure she'd trust him either

razorblunt · 27-05-2015 11:50AM

Chandler Grumpy Pointlessly wrote: »

A lot of that scene felt kind of lazy and TV-tropesy to me. Sam going "oh no I'm fine" and then immediately doing a comedy faint is like something from a daytime sitcom. Cutting straight to some wounded soldier fantasy then? I seriously can't imagine things like that happening in the first season

Good point, the OH is into Penny Dreadful at the minute and I noticed The Following was still going as it was on after it, one of the reasons I gave up on the show is that someone always arrived right on cue to save the day before a character was endangered. Very "american".

kellso81 · 27-05-2015 01:09PM

I think Iwan Rheon has been great the past two seasons but his reputation has suffered since that stupid clown face he pulled while wiggling the sausage in that ubiquitous gif from a couple of years back. I still can't get past it

S05E07 - The Gift - Have READ the books

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