Be still my beating heart

demfad · 26-05-2015 10:36AM

menoscemo wrote: »

Edit to say, looking at the above post (posting at the same time) you are going from 5 mins off 3 minutes to 1 mile (7;30ish?) off 90 seconds. Seems like a massive jump to me in both distance and shortened recovery. I just think these 4 x 1 mile off 90s sessions might be a classic 5k session alright but more designed for the sub 5 min milers out there.

When Ososlo was doing her earlier sessions they were part of general training. In general training you are hitting the body with a good variety of sessions to get it ready for the specific training ahead. You are also doing relatively high work volume which gives you the base for the following phase. In other words Ososlo's coach would have designed the general phase with the goal of maximising her capacity to carry out the more specific tougher sessions ahead. In general training there is not a huge difference (modulation) between hard and easy days.

Specific training is different. The sessions now take on more importance. Overall weekly work volume is reduced to allow the sessions to be tougher. Easy days become very easy, and that allows sessions to be harder. There is now a big modulation between session days and easy days.
There will be a jump in the size of sessions between the phases. Your comment on her session progression might only be valid if she was still doing general training IMO.

As for the session itself it's a standard Frank Horwill session. That should mean that the session will be repeated at a later date and at a faster pace. She has already done a 2 mile paced session and a 1 mile paced session in the last couple of weeks.
This particular session (from two weeks ago) indicates that she will nail it:

"6 x 3mins @ 2mile off 2.50 jog/shuffle/walk recoveries. She had a target of 7:05 pace, she managed 7.00 -ish ave. I think (check her log).

I think everyone wants her to succeed (I hope they do anyway).
Looks like she hasn't been persuaded to abort the session. Maybe lets leave the doubtful comments aside till she has it done. They cant help her succeed now anyway, they will only put her off.

Ososlo: Best way to prove any doubters wrong is to go off in the first rep at the exact correct pace (or slightly slower)! Best of luck.

Krusty_Clown · 26-05-2015 10:39AM

At the end of a hard Pfitzinger and Douglas Advanced marathon plan, with just 10-12 days to go before your final goal race, you were faced with a 3 x 1 mile @V02max (close to 5k) with 3-4 minutes rest. I always looked on this session with great trepidation as for me, it was kind of make or break time. If the numbers were good, I had made progress. If the numbers were bad then I hadn't. All my confidence hung on the result of that session. Thankfully, the numbers were never bad and I went on to make varying levels of gains in each of my marathons.

Since those days, I've gained some wisdom. It's not uncommon for me now to do a training session and not hit the numbers. I've taken a slightly more holistic view of training. It's not the ticking of the second hand on your watch that prepares you your race goal - it''s the running and the breathing, the strides and the upper body movement, the spit and the sweat, the heartbeat and the exhaled breath.

So when you approach your session Ososlo, remember - there is no success or failure, there is only the running and the training. Every workout isn't a trial - it's just another step on the road to progress. Many may debate the merits of the session (and may have the experience and credentials to do so), but at the end of the day, it's just another workout.

TRR_the_turd · 26-05-2015 10:49AM

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

Krusty_Clown · 26-05-2015 11:14AM

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

True. It's a pity the focus isn't spread across a wide range of logs, but I reckon this particular topic would be better off on a standalone thread, one level removed from individuals and coaches, so that history doesn't cloud the discussion. I know that everybody means well, but at the same time, when you're committed to a particular session prescribed by your coach, you're going to attempt it regardless. To do otherwise is to admit that you don't have faith in your coach and ultimately means you need to seek alternative arrangements. Were this my log and my session (and I suspect you'd be much the same) you'd go ahead with the session anyway, albeit with a greater weight on your shoulders.

kit3 · 26-05-2015 11:17AM

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

+1 - Really interesting to see the different viewpoints & approaches especially when you know people have tried and tested various approaches & have the results to back that up.

Best of luck with the session Ososlo - as Krusty says it's only another workout - whether you reach your target or not doesn't really matter in the long run

Clearlier · 26-05-2015 12:06PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

True. It's a pity the focus isn't spread across a wide range of logs, but I reckon this particular topic would be better off on a standalone thread, one level removed from individuals and coaches, so that history doesn't cloud the discussion. I know that everybody means well, but at the same time, when you're committed to a particular session prescribed by your coach, you're going to attempt it regardless. To do otherwise is to admit that you don't have faith in your coach and ultimately means you need to seek alternative arrangements. Were this my log and my session (and I suspect you'd be much the same) you'd go ahead with the session anyway, albeit with a greater weight on your shoulders.

I completely agree but I reckon you're mostly worried that there'll be competition for 'log of the year' next time around!

:D:P.

Notwork Error · 26-05-2015 03:38PM

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

I think the thing is that it is hard for most people to give feedback to a poster who is running as long and as experienced as you TRR which leads to some of the fastest logs been discontinued and probably stops other people at your level from starting logs thus going around in a circle again. It's a shame that it works out like that because logs of that quality are of huge value to the forum and your training can always improve no matter what level you're at.

It can be hard for other posters to see from your perspective and share their opinion, or at least they think that. More often than not, a simple suggestion or looking at it from a different perspective can be the most useful feedback you can get and it doesn't take a sub-2:20 runner to spot those things. Just like here, you and tunguska had a debate and many others had different perspectives on intervals and didn't shy away from sharing their thoughts. Everytime, someone shares a perspective, it's food for thought at the very least whether or not the person uses that advice or not and I don't think people understand that it is the very same for you. Any and all input is of value when you want to improve.

I hope you decide to start logging again and fwiw, I'll try and contribute any ideas I can if you do. It would be a shame to see that log collecting dust in the annals of boards history like so many others.

Sorry for the hijack O!

RedRunner · 26-05-2015 03:50PM

Hi Ososlo,

Hope you nail "The Session" . I'm not going to offer any advice as what do I know anyway ,except on your approach to taking time off work specially for it.

The reason I say that is, well if you nail the session, you'll ask yourself ,was it because I rested up and prepared well by taking the time off work? And if that is what helped you, well you couldnt very well take time off before every session so it'd be a false sense of security if you ask me. Krusty's comment makes a huge amount of sense to me. It will be a good workout regardless if you hit the target or not. I'd say leave taking time off work to days maybe when you have a key race that day.

That was a bit of a rambling sentence but I hope you know what I mean. It's just another session, it's not the be all and end all.

tunguska · 26-05-2015 03:51PM

TRR_the_turd wrote: »

It would be genuinely great if there was real debate like this on all training logs. One of the reasons I'm slow to start logging again is because I never get any feedback good or bad anymore. It's similar for about 80% of logs IMO. Hopefully some of the people commenting here will start commenting on other logs too!

It kind of just went the way of banter and Penis homour. Although to be fair it was funny

TRR_the_turd · 26-05-2015 04:04PM

tunguska wrote: »

It kind of just went the way of banter and Penis homour. Although to be fair it was funny

In fairness, it was 20% penis humour and 80% training! Not that my penis is funny mind you

kit3 · 26-05-2015 04:12PM

Post moved - more appropriate to TRR's log

yaboya1 · 29-05-2015 08:02AM

How did it go in the end? Sky Sports News seemed to be concentrating their attention on the Irish Open golf instead :P

Ososlo · 29-05-2015 09:16AM

yaboya1 wrote: »

How did it go in the end? Sky Sports News seemed to be concentrating their attention on the Irish Open golf instead :P

Log updates are now carried out on a weekly basis however may be subject to change on Bank Holiday weekends .
If you are unhappy with this service then tough shlt

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Murph_D · 29-05-2015 09:31AM

Ososlo wrote: »

Log updates are now carried out on a weekly basis however may be subject to change on Bank Holiday weekends .
If you are unhappy with this service then tough shlt

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Ooh, sounds like it went well.

yaboya1 · 29-05-2015 11:32AM

Ososlo wrote: »

Ps: phoenix park last Monday about 5? North Road?

Afraid not. Not much running from me lately. I've been following the revolutionary MKDTH training plan (10 minutes a day on a dublinbike

)

Ososlo · 29-05-2015 12:17PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Afraid not. Not much running from me lately. I've been following the revolutionary MKDTH training plan (10 minutes a day on a dublinbike )

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn

You got a doppelganger out there!

yaboya1 · 29-05-2015 12:26PM

Ososlo wrote: »

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn
You got a doppelganger out there!

Poor b*st*rd! :pac:

Firedance · 29-05-2015 02:03PM

Ososlo wrote: »

Oh crap, so I was hollering 'yaboya yaboya' out the car window to some random dude whilst beeping the horn
You got a doppelganger out there!

glad it wasn't TRR you thought you saw.....:D:D

Greenmachine · 29-05-2015 11:06PM

Loving the log. Awesome level of detail. Appreciate all your comment so far on my log.

Ososlo · 31-05-2015 06:20PM

Ah! The 2,001st post on this log! Here's to the next 2000! And almost 1,000 miles run for the year!
Numbers numbers... it's all about the numbers...

Just to say that there are some really decent sods around this part. You know who you are. Thanks again

It's nice how some people can see Ososlo as a separate entity unto herself.

Enjoyed the debate about the session over the week also but it probably wasn't great timing as it did put negative thoughts in my head but then again it also gave me a bit of extra motivation so it hopefully balanced itself out.
Good debate and some great comments above so thanks to all who contributed.

Monday 25 May
6x(5 mins [10k effort]– 1 min jog – 1 min [5k-3k effort])
3 min jog between sets

Target 7:45 & 7:20ish

5 mins: 7:46 1 min: 7:19
5 mins: 7:42 1 min: 7:21
5 mins: 7:45 1 min: 7:32
5 mins: 7:43 1 min: 7:18
5 mins: 7:39 1 min: 7:12
5 mins: 7:41 1 min: 7:21

Loved this! Really did. Didn't really start feeling it badly until the last one. The recoveries were loads to fully get breath back and feel fresh enough to go again. Body felt strong. Legs felt good. Looked forward to starting each rep except towards the end when I was feeling it alright but really pleased to hit my targets! It was tough but in a manageable way. Great old session.
I did feel wiped on the couch that night though so it was definitely a bit of a challenge!
10.11 miles total @ 9:20 avg pace

Tuesday 26 May
40 mins recovery/sail's pace
Legs felt great but lungs a bit laboured even at recovery effort. Sleeping tablet Monday night didn't help really and made me feel a little sluggish. Better than being awake all fcuking night!
10:20 avg pace

Wednesday 27 May
Rest
Bloody damn sleep (sick of talking about it but I'm sure you're even more sick about listening to it if you read this tripe!). Disaster. It was cruel getting out of bed at 7:45am as I'd only gotten to sleep about 6. 'Nuff said... no point in running today. I was in a maze or a daze or a haze most of the day and probably shouldn't have been working let alone driving in that state.

Thursday 28 May
4 x 1 Mile @ 5k: Attempt 1

Was ordered to take the session away from the track and onto the road instead to trick the paparazzi to ease the pressure a bit.

Ridiculous wind on the warm up so only managed a half-arsed attempt at some strides and drills. Wasn't feeling the love if I'm honest.
Mile 1: 7:28. Was feeling the effort alright, but not too bad at this stage. Was happy to go again after the 90 sec recovery.

Half way into mile 2 I got a severe stitch and was losing pace rapidly so cut session short and ran the rest of the run easy. It wasn't me wussing out, it was just pointless continuing. The stitch continued on for most of the rest of the run so it wasn't very pleasant to be honest. Might have eaten a tad too close to the run and started out a bit too hard into the wind. I have a big bruise on the area where the stitch was from digging my fingers into it! Just ran the remainder of the run easy to turn it into my weekend longish run.
10+ miles total

Friday 29 May
Couldn't run. No way. Had a disaster of a day in work trying to stay awake after yet another sleepless night. If I didn't have to spend 8 hours in work I would have managed a little jaunt but by the time I got home I was good for absolutely sweet fcuk all.

So 2 days off running this week due to insomnia. Not happy about letting it control me like this but had absolutely no fight in me today

Saturday 30 May
4 x 1 mile @ 5k off 90 sec rec:eek: (Attempt 2!)
Current 5k pb pace from 4 weeks ago- 7:43
Today's splits:
Mile 1: 7:34
Mile 2: 7:35
Mile 3. 7:31
Mile 4. 7:32

I knew if I mentioned to the boss that I was going to attempt this again today I'd be told not to do it as I'm supposed to leave at least 2 days recovery running between each session during this phase of 5k training so I said nothing and just did it. I don't rebel much but the wind is going to be crap for the foreseeable future so today was the best day weather and life-wise so I wanted to take advantage.
I had done the 10 mile run on Thursday with 1.5 mile at 5k race pace (aborted session) so yes it wasn't ideal to do it today but sometimes needs must... I was however ready to abandon ship if I felt any twinges in the legs or they didn't feel well enough recovered etc.

So, onto the session. Legs felt great! Yay! SO happy! Delighted to get stuck into business. The wind was coming at me from side but it didn't really hinder, nor did it help. On the first two reps the pace felt reasonable and the recoveries were ok-ish. Yeah I would have loved 3 minutes recovery but what I was granted was just about manageable. The third rep was the hardest even though it's slightly faster. I wasn't focused too closely at the watch as it was wrecking my head so once I got to target-ish pace on a rep I just tried to lock into the right effort but glanced at it now and again to ensure I was working hard enough. Krusty's words of wisdom about the session being all about the effort and the spittle and the sweat and the heartbeats etc, and not about the exact numbers on the watch stuck in my head and I focused on that instead.
From the second half of the third rep to the end, it was all about just hanging on for dear life and waiting for that beloved beep from the watch! I just bargained with myself to just make it as far as the next lampost, then the next one and so on until I tricked myself into doing the full rep. The recovery after the 3rd rep was cruel though. I was on my knees. Well not quite but I would have liked to have been on my knees:)
This 3rd recovery felt more like a 20 seconds and not 90. I relished each precious second of reprieve from the hurt and sucked in as much air as possible whilst my body was being bathed by a magically cooling breeze. The last rep was SO fcuking hard but as I knew it would all be over soon so I was able to maintain a decent effort but in my head I was making plans to ditch the big bad devil-man in Kerry as my coach and to beg one of the guys from here instead who are MUCH more reasonable with their lovely long recoveries to help me instead:)

No stitches from start to finish so am absolutely delighted about that. What amazed me most about this session was how quickly I recovered. Not between reps but at the end of the session. I thought I'd have to lie down on the ground for an hour afterwards, but within a few minutes I was merrily running 9:30 min/miles back to the car. Legs and body felt really strong throughout and I felt I had a good controlled stride and strong upright posture from warm up to cool down.

So lots of time was spent in the Pain Cave today but I'm happy with how I dealt with it- in a controlled and relaxed manner. I accepted the pain and let it in. I didn't battle it. I even tried to eek out a smile when it got really bad to help me relax.
The whole experience toughened me up big time

It was good for me to practice this in a situation which was not a race as it didn't really matter if I blew up but luckily I didn't.

Regarding the paces of the reps, I'm very pleased and pretty amazed with the consistency. I might have liked them to be a tad quicker and I'd love to have been able to do the last one a bit faster than the rest but I gave it the absolute best effort I could on the day. The paces do show decent improvement since the last race 4 weeks ago which will hopefully translate into another race pb next month. With a good taper and better sleep during the week I feel confident of improvements.
9+ miles total

Sunday 31 May
40 min recovery
Very pleasurable little jog. Legs felt fantastic and I really had to stop them from taking off. Wonderful sleep last night too! Life is good! Felt good enough to do a session again today. Funny how I almost forget today how bad the pain was during that session yesterday and can't wait to do it again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9:42 avg pace

38 miles weekly total (only 5 days running. Lowest in months!!!)

AIS and Lunge Matrix routine before every run. Myrtl after Monday, Thursday and Saturday sessions. Drills and strides before each session. Foam rolling here and there throughout the week but nothing is really hurting when I'm rolling so I'm not sure if I need to bother much.

990 miles yearly total

tang1 · 31-05-2015 06:26PM

Well done A, great going.

yaboya1 · 31-05-2015 06:30PM

Seems like you nailed it. You're seriously selling yourself short in races based on that though. Probably not what you want to hear, but if you can run 4x1m off those recoveries there's no way you can't run faster for 3.11m in a race situation. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Bungy Girl · 31-05-2015 06:32PM

Awesome stuff, Ososlo ! Just brilliant to have 'that' session in the bag (along with Monday's which was nicely done too).

demfad · 31-05-2015 06:35PM

Great session! You toughed it out and you're fit and well prepared by managing that split on the last one. Nice and relaxed today which is perfect. IMO Let that one sink in: really easy tomorrow too. You'll need to recover and adapt over the full 2 days for that one, that's when your body will be cashing in the hard session. You can almost listen and feel the adaption after a great session like that. Delighted for you!

P.S well done on Mondays session too!
BTW: re. race times. Your clearly coming on leaps and bounds now, your current race fitness is improving strongly. The sessions over the last few weeks are kicking in and that's reflected in that effort yesterday. You haven't sold yourself short at all, you've just kicked on big time over the past 4 weeks which is what you want to happen when doing the harder sessions. Well done! Rock on!

Firedance · 31-05-2015 06:38PM

BOOM!

Ososlo · 31-05-2015 06:39PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Seems like you nailed it. You're seriously selling yourself short in races based on that though. Probably not what you want to hear, but if you can run 4x1m off those recoveries there's no way you can't run faster for 3.11m in a race situation. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Why would I not want to hear that? I'd be delighted to go faster of course! Let's see what happens in my next 5k in June!

I did do this session last summer and didn't do as well in the race that followed after it, however I feel like a completely different more confident runner this year.
Thanks!

Myles Splitz · 31-05-2015 06:41PM

Well done on the session

demfad wrote: »

Great session! You toughed it out and you're fit and well prepared by managing that split on the last one. Nice and relaxed today which is perfect. IMO Let that one sink in: really easy tomorrow too. You'll need to recover and adapt over the full 2 days for that one, that's when your body will be cashing in the hard session. You can almost listen and feel the adaption after a great session like that. Delighted for you!

Would tend to agree with this.

Not sure how many of these types of sessions you have planned in this cycle of your training but I would be treating these as race efforts and would match the recovery accordingly (2-3 days very easy running minimum)

By the look of the number of miles you have run this year you have a base, so this should be treated as a racing block where most people would race, these sessions would replace that meaning that you probably won't need too many races to sharpen physically (although the nerves on race day are something which can't be replicated come race day so this also needs to be practiced I have found) and should hit the ground running by time you do race.

Take confidence from the session though. That is what these sessions are about.

tailgunner · 31-05-2015 07:15PM

Was looking forward to reading about "that" session all week. Brilliant stuff!

Ososlo · 31-05-2015 07:16PM

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Well done on the session

Would tend to agree with this.

Not sure how many of these types of sessions you have planned in this cycle of your training but I would be treating these as race efforts and would match the recovery accordingly (2-3 days very easy running minimum)

By the look of the number of miles you have run this year you have a base, so this should be treated as a racing block where most people would race, these sessions would replace that meaning that you probably won't need too many races to sharpen physically (although the nerves on race day are something which can't be replicated come race day so this also needs to be practiced I have found) and should hit the ground running by time you do race.

Take confidence from the session though. That is what these sessions are about.

thanks and yes it's all about recovery for the next 2 days and if I don't feel fully recovered by Tuesday I'll take another day before the next speed session which is the fastest one of lot so I really need to ensure I feel super fresh.
It's basically just hard sessions and lots of recovery for this whole block.
Appreciate your comments cheers.

Pacing Mule · 31-05-2015 07:21PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

Seems like you nailed it. You're seriously selling yourself short in races based on that though. Probably not what you want to hear, but if you can run 4x1m off those recoveries there's no way you can't run faster for 3.11m in a race situation. Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'd agree with P here tbh.

That sessions splits .....

Current 5k pb pace from 4 weeks ago- 7:43
Today's splits:
Mile 1: 7:34
Mile 2: 7:35
Mile 3. 7:31
Mile 4. 7:32

But that 5k PB is very very soft according to your report at the time.

This was just for a bit of race practice to try and work on combating the race nerves so I treated it like a session. My pre-race nerves pretty much ruined my last race. I had expended so much energy worrying about the bloody thing that I was wrecked before it even started and all my energy was depleted. That coupled with the wind lead to a poor result and bad race experience.
Instructions today were to run hard, not stress, stay RELAXED throughout and not worry about the time. It's the first of many 5k races and park runs I'll be doing over the summer, so whatever way it went, I wasn't going to be too worried about it as I can go again in a few weeks. That really took the pressure off.

The biggest positive that I can take from this race was that I didn't panic like last time and I was actually looking forward to it in some weird way. I didn't really get nervous until I was on the starting line but I did feel like getting sick during the 5 mins of standing around waiting for the off. I actually dry retched before the race

Warm up consisted of 2 miles with second mile getting progressively faster and did 6 x 20 second strides at the end.

I ran most of this race alone except for the first lap when I was mainly passing people. For the 2nd and 3rd laps the guy ahead was WAY to far for me to catch him so it was more like a time trial. Very small field. 100 runners I think and I came 5th female so that'll tell ya all you need to know about that! So I had no one really to work off/with throughout.

No splits as decided not to use the watch to help with easing the nerves and pressure but I reckon I went out a bit too quick and eased up a bit too much in the middle but I did pick it up nicely towards the end. If I had been using the watch would I have run a bit faster? Dunno... might have pushed a bit harder to get under the 24 alright. Who knows.. except for the all knowing Running Gods.

2 mile cool down and a super chat about all things running with the race director.

Report card: B-minus. A good hard effort but definitely capable of better and need to feel the pain a bit more and not go easy on myself when I don't really have to and that'll all come with more experience.

If anything I'd have expected to see the splits from this session to be quite a bit faster if it were to be a true reflection of current 5k race pace. When it comes to actually racing a 5k all out A+ effort wise etc I'd expect to see splits well below that session. Still a difficult session so congrats for nailing it.

Be still my beating heart

Comments