Public sector pay increase

Roger Hassenforder · 22-05-2015 10:59PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Ok you know best. See this is why people are pissed off listening to this crying for more money and more money from this minority in the country. Its not really the money its the attitude that gets up peoples noses.
You come off so self entitled compared to everyone else. Doesn't help your case.
Didn't say all but partly a lot of job losses over the last decade is due to cheaper labour costs overseas.

Will you take your teddy, and your blankie and go home to mommy. FFS.

is this your normal reaction when someone disagrees with you, or debunks your points?
I don't know best, but I'll tell you one thing, I'm grounding my argument in facts and evidence. Its up to you to refute with a counter argument, not go whining about attitude and self entitlements.

I've worked on production lines, in boning halls, public sector, teaching, post sorting, fish processing, bakeries, in SMEs and multinationals, and can tell you one thing. Very few people in this country are overpaid and under worked. There are exceptions of course but that's what they are.

evolving_doors · 22-05-2015 11:01PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why are there so many teachers then so many without jobs ? Can't be that hard to qualify.

Because they believe the rubbish spouted by people who haven't a clue (but have a grudge).

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-05-2015 12:21AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Will you take your teddy, and your blankie and go home to mommy. FFS.

is this your normal reaction when someone disagrees with you, or debunks your points?
I don't know best, but I'll tell you one thing, I'm grounding my argument in facts and evidence. Its up to you to refute with a counter argument, not go whining about attitude and self entitlements.

I've worked on production lines, in boning halls, public sector, teaching, post sorting, fish processing, bakeries, in SMEs and multinationals, and can tell you one thing. Very few people in this country are overpaid and under worked. There are exceptions of course but that's what they are.

Touch a nerve or what. So you've worked in every conceivable job on the planet.
Good so you'll know listening to the whinging from the most vocal group in this country is not too appealing to the guy workin in fish gutting plant.
Your arguing with yourself because I'm like you. Iv worked in ****e paying jobs. Iv worked in good paying jobs at varies stages if my life. But I take it as it comes.
What did you debunk exactly.
Btw I like my mommy and my teddy bear thanks

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 12:21AM

Dexter Bip wrote: »

Check out Teaching in the UK for an example of where this goes. Anybody who has experienced it will tell you that it is not well paid, is not regarded highly and certainly does not always attract the calibre of person who I would like to see in charge of my childrens' education and life chances.

Teaching attracts the brightest and the best in Ireland precisely because it is well rewarded. Ireland has always valued (and profited from) its education system. Education at all levels is an investment. Looking at it in terms of teacher salary is just plain short sighted.
And yes, teachers have long holidays. I would suggest that it would be difficult not to burn out without some chance to recover from the madness that goes on for the rest of the year.
There are some very simplistic generalisations about the 'government' not matching suppply and demand and people not researching their careers.
If you can find the stats that the government might have used in predicting retirements/increase/decrease in populations etc. I would be interested in seeing them. Further, It is the Universities who decide how many students they will enroll. There are many factors (mostly to do with money) that influence these.
New entrants to teaching are already subject to 10% pay decrease and coupled with the stress of the job, having to spend five or six years to qualify in the first place (Primary degree plus two year Masters since last year) why would anybody bother? If you study for seven years you can become a vet or a doctor.

Finally, No I am not a teacher. I have worked in the SME and the public sector. I have owned businesses and worked for the state. Each way there are pressures and stresses. In my view most people do an honest day's work.

Education is an investment but we should as a correctly functioning society heavily scrutinize every penny spent by the state in order to maximize returns and minimize costs. I don't believe we have reached peak possible efficiency in the Education sector and a good way start would be to cut teacher's salaries, increase investment in school assets, increase availability to tertiary education for all students and cut summer holidays.

I don't for one second accept the excuse of teachers or students burning out should we lengthen the academic year. South Korea which is constantly ranked as having some of the best students in the world begins the first semester in March and finishes in mid July then starts the second semester at the end of August and finishes mid February.

I also don't accept your fear that lowering wages would lead to teaching becoming a less desirable job for talented people. As long as we ensure a very high standard is set at MA stage we can ensure there remains a pool of talented teachers to choose from.

At the moment the teaching industry is over subscribed, there are to many potential teachers for not enough jobs. We have room to lower wages and lower demand before we hit a supply problem and that is what we should be doing to ensure maximum return on investment for the tax payer.

Unions will have a problem with these reforms yes, but that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

Arsemageddon · 23-05-2015 12:24AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

Good luck with that!

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 12:30AM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Good luck with that!

All it would take is one strong willed government to refuse to co-operate with them.

23-05-2015 03:15AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Education is an investment but we should as a correctly functioning society heavily scrutinize every penny spent by the state in order to maximize returns and minimize costs. I don't believe we have reached peak possible efficiency in the Education sector and a good way start would be to cut teacher's salaries, increase investment in school assets, increase availability to tertiary education for all students and cut summer holidays.

I don't for one second accept the excuse of teachers or students burning out should we lengthen the academic year. South Korea which is constantly ranked as having some of the best students in the world begins the first semester in March and finishes in mid July then starts the second semester at the end of August and finishes mid February.

I also don't accept your fear that lowering wages would lead to teaching becoming a less desirable job for talented people. As long as we ensure a very high standard is set at MA stage we can ensure there remains a pool of talented teachers to choose from.

At the moment the teaching industry is over subscribed, there are to many potential teachers for not enough jobs. We have room to lower wages and lower demand before we hit a supply problem and that is what we should be doing to ensure maximum return on investment for the tax payer.

Unions will have a problem with these reforms yes, but that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

Horse sh*t of the highest order from start to finish.

It's entertaining though to watch a person so bitter who will never see things end up in the twisted way they would like.

evolving_doors · 23-05-2015 09:22AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Education is an investment but we should as a correctly functioning society heavily scrutinize every penny spent by the state in order to maximize returns and minimize costs. I don't believe we have reached peak possible efficiency in the Education sector and a good way start would be to cut teacher's salaries, increase investment in school assets, increase availability to tertiary education for all students and cut summer holidays.

I don't for one second accept the excuse of teachers or students burning out should we lengthen the academic year. South Korea which is constantly ranked as having some of the best students in the world begins the first semester in March and finishes in mid July then starts the second semester at the end of August and finishes mid February.

I also don't accept your fear that lowering wages would lead to teaching becoming a less desirable job for talented people. As long as we ensure a very high standard is set at MA stage we can ensure there remains a pool of talented teachers to choose from.

At the moment the teaching industry is over subscribed, there are to many potential teachers for not enough jobs. We have room to lower wages and lower demand before we hit a supply problem and that is what we should be doing to ensure maximum return on investment for the tax payer.

Unions will have a problem with these reforms yes, but that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

What's with all the teacher hate?

Potential-Monke · 23-05-2015 10:17AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All it would take is one strong willed government to refuse to co-operate with them.

One strong willed government to take on the might of the European Union and tackle the legal status of every individual to join a trade union. This cannot happen.

JillyQ · 23-05-2015 12:47PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

One strong willed government to take on the might of the European Union and tackle the legal status of every individual to join a trade union. This cannot happen.

I don't think he said anything about stopping people joining a union, the government as a employer has the right not to recognise it.

Dan_Solo · 23-05-2015 01:07PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Unions will have a problem with these reforms yes, but that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

Do you own a mine or something?
What is "support" anyway? Is there an actual campaign or what? Don't you really mean "propose"?

evolving_doors · 23-05-2015 01:08PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

All it would take is one strong willed government to refuse to co-operate with them.

Public sector people vote too you know!

Jawgap · 23-05-2015 01:28PM

JillyQ wrote: »

I don't think he said anything about stopping people joining a union, the government as a employer has the right not to recognise it.

'The government' is not an employer of public or civil servants. Myriad departments of government, agencies, authorities, executives, councils etc are the employers - people need to get away from the idea that either public and civil servants, and their employers are some kind of monolithic entities.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-05-2015 01:37PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Unions will have a problem with these reforms yes, but that is why I suport the whole scale de-unionization of the public sector.

Do you "support" the whole scale "de-unionization" of the private sector too?

blackcard · 23-05-2015 01:44PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Do you "support" the whole scale "de-unionization" of the private sector too?

Jack O'Connor et al are private sector workers

Dan_Solo · 23-05-2015 01:45PM

blackcard wrote: »

Jack O'Connor et al are private sector workers

Is there a second sentence missing here... so?

Roger Hassenforder · 23-05-2015 04:57PM

blackcard wrote: »

Jack O'Connor et al are private sector workers

and?

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 07:16PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

What's with all the teacher hate?

I don't hate teachers they do a very valuable job but with a few changes to the system we could get more for less.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 07:22PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Do you "support" the whole scale "de-unionization" of the private sector too?

Yes, absolutely.

Jawgap · 23-05-2015 07:50PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yes, absolutely.

Article 40.6.1(iii) of the Constitution? How do you plan to sneak the referendum through?

An employer can refuse to recognise a union, but that won't mean unions will disappear.

byhookorbycrook · 23-05-2015 07:55PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't hate teachers they do a very valuable job but with a few changes to the system we could get more for less.

Please do elaborate.

evolving_doors · 23-05-2015 08:07PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I don't hate teachers they do a very valuable job but with a few changes to the system we could get more for less.

more ? Ive already given more with CP1,HR,FEMPI but yer still not happy...
I get the sense theres a bit of unresolved grievances and it aint about pay or 3months holidays.

stefanovich · 23-05-2015 08:22PM

I really don't think we need to focus on teachers who for the most part do a fantastic job for less pay than they deserve. What bothers me about the public sector are the back room bureaucrats and their rampant inefficiency.

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 08:49PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Article 40.6.1(iii) of the Constitution? How do you plan to sneak the referendum through?

An employer can refuse to recognise a union, but that won't mean unions will disappear.

As you've said an employer can refuse to recognize unions.

23-05-2015 09:01PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As you've said an employer can refuse to recognize unions.

So you want a situation where workers don't have someone to fight for them and just shut up and take poor treatment, unfair changes to their employment conditions, wages not being increased, inconsistancy in wages amoung people doing similar jobs etc etc etc etc etc!

Iwasfrozen · 23-05-2015 09:16PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

So you want a situation where workers don't have someone to fight for them and just shut up and take poor treatment, unfair changes to their employment conditions, wages not being increased, inconsistancy in wages amoung people doing similar jobs etc etc etc etc etc!

I want a situation where employers, in this case the govt, have the freedom to make necessary and beneficial changes without being subject to blackmail by unions.

purplecow1977 · 23-05-2015 09:20PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I want a situation where employers, in this case the govt, have the freedom to make necessary and beneficial changes without being subject to blackmail by unions.

Ahhh so you want employees like this then

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01514/p_doormat_i-am-not_1514745i.jpg

Roger Hassenforder · 23-05-2015 09:28PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I want a situation where employers in this case the govt, have the freedom power to make necessary and beneficial changes without being subject to blackmail by unions.

fyp.
you sure you dont own a salt mine?

23-05-2015 09:42PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I want a situation where employers, in this case the govt, have the freedom to make necessary and beneficial changes without being subject to blackmail by unions.

Thankfully we have unions to prevent "necessary" changes as they would be anything but beneficial.

Dan_Solo · 23-05-2015 09:43PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I want a situation where employers, in this case the govt, have the freedom to make necessary and beneficial changes without being subject to blackmail by unions.

And who decides if they are "necessary and beneficial" or not? The employers I suppose?
No... no problems with that proposal.

Public sector pay increase

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