Public sector pay increase

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Of course because everyone in these factories drive forklifts. Lads that's the end of debate. Tied up with a nice bow
What about the likes of porters in hospitals. Load of education there too.

Thanks!
The wife picked the bow though.

Is a hospital staffed entirely of porters?

draiochtanois wrote: »

Your evidence is along the lines of being shocked that turkeys voting to cancel Christmas

Nope, more along the lines of using...I dunno... actual evidence?
Like what evidence is supposed to be. Not ramblings, hysteria, opinions, polemics, diatribes etc.
Evidence...facts if you will!

draiochtanois wrote: »

yeah yeah sure.

"Force debating weak in this one, yes? Mmmmm? "

YODA, 2015

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In the last four years the management team I was part of in the PS have all decamped to the private sector. One is on a part-time arrangement, but the other three of us all are now working for firms or companies in the private sector.

All told it took about 30 months for us to bail, but if you exclude the P/T person (who took early retirement) the three full timers all left within a year - me being the last to go, but I left the lights on.

Oh, and the agency we used to work for put out a tender for professional services earlier in the year, it was won by a firm one of my former colleagues works for, so now he's basically doing a part of the same job he was doing about 2 years ago only at about twice the hourly rate! But don't worry the guys who replaced us are on much lower salaries

daithi7 wrote: »

Apologies for upsetting some public sector folk, who would like all of us to hang on to the much spun misconceptions that people in the private sector are all creaming it, that Irish public sector workers work hard for little pay , and that being asked to finally contribute a little towards a gold plated pension, is just an emergency measure (I mean just reading that shows the level of entitlement by some & their unions).

The report I quoted from showing the Irish public servants as the 4 th highest paid in the EU, while working the least number of hours per week bar one other nation is by the independent third party that is ' the Institute of International & European Affairs '.

More of their report here if you wish
http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/public-sector-pay-at-a-glance

And all this from a bust country.....wonderful isn't it, our deeply indebted grand children will be so grateful when they have to emigrate to well run,low debt creditor countries to find work too!!

Ah, I see now.

The CSO research is rejected because it's put together by public servants.

But the IIEA research is obviously gospel because of who funds them....

http://www.iiea.com/funding

Again, people seem happy to pick only that research that supports the idea that PS staff are universally overpaid......

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Perhaps for accountants, engineers, solicitors or actuaries yes but teachers are not accountants, engineers, solicitors or actuaries.

Teachers have three months of the year off, excellent working conditions and they can't be sacked.These are perks that add to the desirability of the job and of course the more desirable a job the less the employer can pay to meet demand.

We know the teaching profession is over subscribed, many young teachers find it extremely hard to find a full time position, this is their fault for not researching their industry but it's also the governments fault as they have allowed the supply of new graduates to outmatch demand.

What I would propose is to continue to lower teachers wages (or keep the wage freeze, same thing only slower) until the supply of potential teaching candidates reaches the demand.

If schools are finding it hard to fill positions we can look at giving individual schools the right to pay more under certain circumstances.

Check out Teaching in the UK for an example of where this goes. Anybody who has experienced it will tell you that it is not well paid, is not regarded highly and certainly does not always attract the calibre of person who I would like to see in charge of my childrens' education and life chances.

Teaching attracts the brightest and the best in Ireland precisely because it is well rewarded. Ireland has always valued (and profited from) its education system. Education at all levels is an investment. Looking at it in terms of teacher salary is just plain short sighted.
And yes, teachers have long holidays. I would suggest that it would be difficult not to burn out without some chance to recover from the madness that goes on for the rest of the year.
There are some very simplistic generalisations about the 'government' not matching suppply and demand and people not researching their careers.
If you can find the stats that the government might have used in predicting retirements/increase/decrease in populations etc. I would be interested in seeing them. Further, It is the Universities who decide how many students they will enroll. There are many factors (mostly to do with money) that influence these.
New entrants to teaching are already subject to 10% pay decrease and coupled with the stress of the job, having to spend five or six years to qualify in the first place (Primary degree plus two year Masters since last year) why would anybody bother? If you study for seven years you can become a vet or a doctor.

Finally, No I am not a teacher. I have worked in the SME and the public sector. I have owned businesses and worked for the state. Each way there are pressures and stresses. In my view most people do an honest day's work.

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So there's 200000 people working on assembly lines. Your point being?

nope, thats not what I said, but it does make shyt of your "argument", "most if not all" production line jobs have gone east...

Why are there so many teachers then so many without jobs ? Can't be that hard to qualify.