Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

kylith · 22-05-2015 10:04AM

jooksavage wrote: »

Ha, I heard that statistic too. Was it from "Birdie" on the George Hook debate? The one where she advised us that if SSM was legalised years ago, none of us would be around to debate it today?

I can never get over the way some people think that homosexuality is some kind of communicable disease. Like if you let people think it's ok to be gay then overnight everyone will 'catch' it and the human race will vanish.

SILVAMAN · 22-05-2015 10:05AM

Anyone come across the idiot Ali Selim and his write up on marriage in yesterday's Indo?
Nothing unusual in it, except the depths this guy goes to in order to justify his arguments. One of his arguments is When a male infant becomes a young boy, detaching him from his mother and attaching him to his father serves the best of his interest since it helps him form a healthy masculine identity. A father also plays an important role in his daughter's life. The father offers his daughter the first opportunity for a male-female relationship, non-sexual yet based on love.
Talk about scraping the barrel.....did this ass get his phD online?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/marriage-has-a-purpose-that-gay-unions-cant-fulfil-31240535.html

This is why we need constitutional protection.

Hermy · 22-05-2015 10:06AM

RobertKK wrote: »

No, a Yes vote does not recognise what I believe marriage to be, which is an expanded definition.

A Yes vote will recognise what you believe marriage to be but it will also recognise what I believe marriage to be.
A No vote will only recognise what you recognise marriage to be.

How can voting Yes be considered intolerant?

RobertKK · 22-05-2015 10:07AM

Hermy wrote: »

A Yes vote will recognise what you believe marriage to be but it will also recognise what I believe marriage to be.
A No vote will only recognise what you recognise marriage to be.

How can voting Yes be considered intolerant?

I never said a Yes vote is intolerant.

seamus · 22-05-2015 10:07AM

Ali Selim is a hardline Muslim, so I would be surprised if he expressed a view that was anything but negative about homosexuals (and women of course).

Delirium · 22-05-2015 10:08AM

RobertKK wrote: »

But you at looking at it in a myopic way, rather than the overall picture, which is a redefinition of marriage. An expanded meaning is a redefinition.

Not at all. I'm referring to your claim that a Yes vote doesn't recognise your belief with regards to marriage. I've explained how that's not the case. But I'm open to you explaining how I'm wrong.

namloc1980 · 22-05-2015 10:09AM

RobertKK wrote: »

But you at looking at it in a myopic way, rather than the overall picture, which is a redefinition of marriage. An expanded meaning is a redefinition.

And what is so objectionable about two men or women marrying?

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2015 10:10AM

Adamantium wrote: »

One wonders that if allowing same sex marraige was such an obviously good thing. Why hasn't it happened before?

I still say coming down from the trees was a bad move - we were much happier before we started walking on two legs and making tools.

If that was such a good idea, why didn't it happen in the previous 3.5 billion years of life on earth?

Hermy · 22-05-2015 10:10AM

SILVAMAN wrote: »

... When a male infant becomes a young boy, detaching him from his mother and attaching him to his father serves the best of his interest since it helps him form a healthy masculine identity. A father also plays an important role in his daughter's life. The father offers his daughter the first opportunity for a male-female relationship, non-sexual yet based on love....

Well that's obviously complete nonsense because I heard Kevin Myers say the complete opposite on the radio yesterday.:pac:

Vivisectus · 22-05-2015 10:10AM

RobertKK wrote: »

This referendum will pass it has the might of the state behind it - all political parties, a former president, the Gardai, the GAA's GPA, the rich and famous, the IDA, Google, Twitter and other multinationals, the media with soft interviews of Yes. David Quinn was asked how he voted on the divorce which was irrelevant, how did homosexual people come about, a tweet that was taken out of context and only brought up by a Yes campaigner months after just as the campaign for the referendum began.

It will be a miracle if Yes don't win this. I would bet my house and other assets on it being a Yes vote. Think it will be 60% Yes, 40% No.

Wait... wait.. wait

So someone asked David Quinn a question that you did not consider germane to the argument? And that is an example of media bias?

David "Look at Croatia: just keep mentioning children and you can swing the vote" Quinn? A driving force behind the campaign of misinformation, slippery slope arguments and water-muddying that we have seen.

I am gasted flabber and founded dumb. Is there a word for "more ironic than ironic" in English?

Pherekydes · 22-05-2015 10:12AM

jooksavage wrote: »

Ha, I heard that statistic too. Was it from "Birdie" on the George Hook debate? The one where she advised us that if SSM was legalised years ago, none of us would be around to debate it today?

The very one. It was like the twilight zone.

Here's what a frequent visitor to Hook tweeted:

"Im not a homophobe but to me men marrying men is a sterile Union And we're Christian & America is the land of opportunity" WTF #HookNT

To be clear, Birdie said what was in the quotes. The celeb wrote WTF.

Whosthis · 22-05-2015 10:13AM

Hermy wrote: »

Well that's obviously complete nonsense because I heard Kevin Myers say the complete opposite on the radio yesterday.:pac:

How is that **** still getting airtime?

Merry Prankster · 22-05-2015 10:13AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I believe marriage is between a man and a woman only. I don't have to change my opinion whether it is a yes or no vote.
For msot there is not this conflict, just people don't want hassle.

You see it here as in the above quote. No people are more tolerant of Yes voters than Yes are of No voters.

But surely your belief is based upon some form of reasoning?

Zubeneschamali · 22-05-2015 10:14AM

Vivisectus wrote: »

Is there a word for "more ironic than ironic" in English?

The No campaign are way past irony in the periodic table, I think they are up to Plutoniumy by now - really heavy, glow-in-the-dark obvious, and very toxic.

TwoShedsJackson · 22-05-2015 10:15AM

jooksavage wrote: »

Sister voted in our old primary school at 8.30 in rural Tipp this morning. Said there were 3 women arriving having come from a night vigil to pray for a no vote. A bit disheartening alright. Still, they're not representative of the average voter down here and I'm quietly confident the Yes' will have it.

At least we know praying has no effect whatsoever so you don't have to worry about that.

Brancott · 22-05-2015 10:15AM

If I were to judge my FB feed then it's going to be 100% Yes vote.
If I were to judge my intuition I'd say it will be 60:40 Yes.
Fingers crossed.

jooksavage · 22-05-2015 10:17AM

RobertKK wrote: »

The biggest joke of the week was Enda Kenny on Six1, saying he is a devout Catholic, he told Gay Byrne he goes to mass every Sunday as he sees it as a community get together, doesn't believe Jesus is the son of God, or the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ. This passes for a devout Catholic these days...

So saying you are catholic is one thing, being Catholic is another. Yes wins.

I think Enda Kenny's beliefs are shared by a lot of regular and semi-regular mass-goers (such as myself). Just because I don't blindly swallow whatever the Pope/bishop/local PP decrees or believe in mystical transubstantiation or that gay people are "disordered" doesn't mean I feel compelled to turn my back on a Church that has given me and my family support since my childhood. I mightn't meet your definition of a Catholic (or the Pope's) anymore than an same-sex union meets your definition of marriage. Too bad.

Hermy · 22-05-2015 10:17AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I never said a Yes vote is intolerant.

No, you siad that No voters were more tolerant than Yes voters.
How can that be when No voters are only tolerant of heterosexual marriage while Yes voters are tolerant of both same sex and opposite sex marriages?

Vivisectus · 22-05-2015 10:17AM

RobertKK wrote: »

But you at looking at it in a myopic way, rather than the overall picture, which is a redefinition of marriage. An expanded meaning is a redefinition.

Now you are just repeating what you believe, without in any way engaging with the facts presented to you. I refer to a great example posted here somewhere by a fellow poster: if we allow women to drive is Saudi Arabia, does that mean we have re-defined driving? Or just that we have allowed more people to do it?

Irish Halo · 22-05-2015 10:18AM

MathDebater wrote: »

All those coming home are recent émigrés, are they? A 90 second search using the #hometovote tag will quickly expel that suggestion.

Fat Christy wrote: »

No clue, only know that you have 18 months so lets not shoot them yet.

I have just seen the #HomeToVote hashtag, look I'm all for the Yes vote but is this not massive, public, electoral fraud?

The information here is confusing about if you even get the 18 months:

1) You must also have been ordinarily resident in the State on 1 September in the year before the Register comes into force.

2) If you leave your address but you plan to return there within 18 months, you can continue to be registered there, as long you do not register at any other.

3) If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors.

1 says OK as long as you were resident in Ireland on a certain date
2 says you get to stay registered at an address for 18 months BUT you must be planning to return by the end of that date
3 states categorically if you're abroad no vote

If everyone on that hashtag is a recent emigrant more power to you but really? All of them only left in the last 18 months?

RobertKK · 22-05-2015 10:19AM

Vivisectus wrote: »

Wait... wait.. wait

So someone asked David Quinn a question that you did not consider germane to the argument? And that is an example of media bias?

David "Look at Croatia: just keep mentioning children and you can swing the vote" Quinn? A driving force behind the campaign of misinformation, slippery slope arguments and water-muddying that we have seen.

I am gasted flabber and founded dumb. Is there a word for "more ironic than ironic" in English?

Newstalk got a lot of complaints to it for the interview, it would have been fine if both sides got an aggressive tone from Chris Donoghue when he interviewed them on the referendum.
Lots of complaints around over the interview, Chris is so easy to read, that it makes balanced impossible to him.

kunst nugget · 22-05-2015 10:21AM

Hermy wrote: »

No, you siad that No voters were more tolerant than Yes voters.
How can that be when No voters are only tolerant of heterosexual marriage while Yes voters are tolerant of both same sex and opposite sex marriages?

He said No voters were more tolerant of people voting Yes than Yes voters were of people voting No. He wasn't talking about tolerance or intolerance toward same sex marriage. It is possible to be tolerant towards one thing and intolerant of another.

endacl · 22-05-2015 10:21AM

Democratic squeak, cast.

Merry Prankster · 22-05-2015 10:21AM

SILVAMAN wrote: »

Anyone come across the idiot Ali Selim and his write up on marriage in yesterday's Indo?
Nothing unusual in it, except the depths this guy goes to in order to justify his arguments. One of his arguments is When a male infant becomes a young boy, detaching him from his mother and attaching him to his father serves the best of his interest since it helps him form a healthy masculine identity. A father also plays an important role in his daughter's life. The father offers his daughter the first opportunity for a male-female relationship, non-sexual yet based on love.
Talk about scraping the barrel.....did this ass get his phD online?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/marriage-has-a-purpose-that-gay-unions-cant-fulfil-31240535.html

This is why we need constitutional protection.

I hate the way he uses pseudo-science to rationalize his hatred of gays. It'd be way more honest if he just stated his antipathy bluntly.

Merry Prankster · 22-05-2015 10:23AM

Irish Halo wrote: »

I have just seen the #HomeToVote hashtag, look I'm all for the Yes vote but is this not massive, public, electoral fraud?

The information here is confusing about if you even get the 18 months:

1) You must also have been ordinarily resident in the State on 1 September in the year before the Register comes into force.

2) If you leave your address but you plan to return there within 18 months, you can continue to be registered there, as long you do not register at any other.

3) If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors.

1 says OK as long as you were resident in Ireland on a certain date
2 says you get to stay registered at an address for 18 months BUT you must be planning to return by the end of that date
3 states categorically if you're abroad no vote

If everyone on that hashtag is a recent emigrant more power to you but really? All of them only left in the last 18 months?

Surely both sides will even themselves out?

Hermy · 22-05-2015 10:24AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

He said No voters were more tolerant of people voting Yes than Yes voters were of people voting No. He wasn't talking about tolerance or intolerance toward same sex marriage. It is possible to be tolerant towards one thing and intolerant of another.

No - he said No people are more tolerant of Yes voters than Yes are of No voters - which is not something I agree with.
But that's just my opinion.

seamus · 22-05-2015 10:25AM

Irish Halo wrote: »

If everyone on that hashtag is a recent emigrant more power to you but really? All of them only left in the last 18 months?

It wouldn't actually surprise me. The vast majority of young emigrants are not long-term economic migrants.
By far the majority have taken a year/18 months to explore the world rather than to try and settle permanently in another country.

Ultimately though this is an informal movement, not any campaign organised by any group. So while undoubtedly some of those arriving home have been wrongly kept on the register by Mammy, there's no organised electoral fraud campaign going on.

MonkeyTennis · 22-05-2015 10:25AM

As a matter of interest why isnt there lots of pictures on facebook and twitter of NO voters after happily and proudly voting NO?

kunst nugget · 22-05-2015 10:27AM

Hermy wrote: »

No - he said No people are more tolerant of Yes voters than Yes are of No voters - which is not something I agree with.
But that's just my opinion.

Tbf, I think you're arguing over semantics. I think the intention of his post was clear enough.

Hermy · 22-05-2015 10:28AM

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

As a matter of interest why isnt there lots of pictures on facebook and twitter of NO voters after happily and proudly voting NO?

Because intolerance and happiness don't go together.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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