Public sector pay increase

mikemac1 · 17-05-2015 02:50PM

She says she has a full time job but mentions week on week off and also manning the public counter from 9 - 1:30

Is she full time or not?

Inspector Coptoor · 17-05-2015 03:13PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

She says she has a full time job but mentions week on week off and also manning the public counter from 9 - 1:30

Is she full time or not?

She has a week on, week off from being front of house dealing with public.

If she deals with 100 people from 9-1:30, there'll be a lot of admin work to be done in the afternoon after lunch and during the "week off" where she'd be in a back office doing admin and clerical work.

Stop looking for the very worst conclusion possible

Inspector Coptoor · 17-05-2015 05:09PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Was I ranting or demanding answers?

Did I suggest you were?

18-05-2015 09:59PM

Letree wrote: »

Yeah if we try and match the private sector which is heavily skewed in favour of bosses. In the US, UK and in Ireland we see the continual decade on decade rise of the top tier being paid multiples of the bottom tier. Just because they can. We don't have to blindly follow that model. In Scandinavian countries it is more common to see the pay differentials between the top and bottom much closer.

There is the issue of a fair days pay for a fair days work. The public service should lead the way in that. We don't need to follow the American model of the top guy paid 500 times what the bottom guy gets paid. You get the picture i'm sure. The trends are there already in western capitalism. However, I think the people making decisions on PS pay already understand that and haven't fallen for the rabid right wing exploitative view.

Is it just those in the PS that deserve to be protected from this right wing exploitation? Why did you not include all workers, public and private? If the PS can be feathered like this, then why not use tax payers to ensure that all workers are paid "a fair days pay for a fair days work". Why not ensure everyone has a guaranteed life long job and index linked pensions, all paid out of general taxation?

I get what you are saying, people are being scammed in the private sector with falling or stagnate wages compared to those at the top.

But, it is curious you feel only the PS should have this privilege. Thereby yet again exposing the entitled and me fein attitude government workers have.

Roger Hassenforder · 18-05-2015 10:11PM

salonfire wrote: »

Is it just those in the PS that deserve to be protected from this right wing exploitation? Why did you not include all workers, public and private? If the PS can be feathered like this, then why not use tax payers to ensure that all workers are paid "a fair days pay for a fair days work". Why not ensure everyone has a guaranteed life long job and index linked pensions, all paid out of general taxation?

I get what you are saying, people are being scammed in the private sector with falling or stagnate wages compared to those at the top.

But, it is curious you feel only the PS should have this privilege. Thereby yet again exposing the entitled and me fein attitude government workers have.

he doesnt. He/she said "There is the issue of a fair days pay for a fair days work. The public service should lead the way in that"

i.e. lead for others to follow...
Thats what public service is, thinking of others through their own selfless actions !

18-05-2015 10:28PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

he doesnt. He/she said "There is the issue of a fair days pay for a fair days work. The public service should lead the way in that"

i.e. lead for others to follow...
Thats what public service is, thinking of others through their own selfless actions !

Right. Leading the way by using tax payers money to ensure PS workers are protected from any market forces that could lead to say, redundancy.

Now, why not state that all workers should be entitled to draw on the same exchequer to ensure that everyone has the same privileges. Why should one group of workers be excluded? Afterall, we all chip in to the exchequer, public and private.

So why not advocate that everyone should be on a par across the workforce?

daithi7 · 20-05-2015 03:18PM

A quick look at why a bust country should not be contemplating paying their already overpaid public service even more!!

suicide_circus · 20-05-2015 03:44PM

daithi7 wrote: »

A quick look at why a bust country should not be contemplating paying their already overpaid public service even more!!

Goway outa dat, we have the best most efficient and streamlined public service in the world, the deserve more money now!

Monife · 20-05-2015 05:23PM

daithi7 wrote: »

A quick look at why a bust country should not be contemplating paying their already overpaid public service even more!!

Sweeping generalisation. Not all public servants are overpaid. I know I would be better off on the dole if rent allowance is taken into account.

Fear Ciarrai · 20-05-2015 06:26PM

Monife wrote:

Sweeping generalisation. Not all public servants are overpaid. I know I would be better off on the dole if rent allowance is taken into account.

True. Clerical officer starts on E409.06. Dole E200 apppox. Cost of travel, rent allowance into consideration. But we are all to get a huge 2per cent increase, I might refuse it cos Im overpaid!

Roger Hassenforder · 20-05-2015 07:52PM

daithi7 wrote: »

A quick look at why a bust country should not be contemplating paying their already overpaid public service even more!!

you might explain your graphs, how overpaid they actually are, take a garda for example, what is a garda's basic pay, and what should they be paid?
Are our social welfare rates too high, if the differential between low paid public servants and welfare is so low as claimed above?

Mr. teddywinkles · 21-05-2015 07:03PM

Fear Ciarrai wrote: »

True. Clerical officer starts on E409.06. Dole E200 apppox. Cost of travel, rent allowance into consideration. But we are all to get a huge 2per cent increase, I might refuse it cos Im overpaid!

And lower paid private sector jobs are different in this regard how?

ardmacha · 21-05-2015 07:07PM

daithi7 wrote: »

A quick look at why a bust country should not be contemplating paying their already overpaid public service even more!!

If the country has a problem then it should be spending less and raising more income, this is not especially connected with paying people properly. I'd suggest raising university fees to UK levels, charging more for hospitals, removing the ridiculous water "conservation" grant.

darkpagandeath · 21-05-2015 07:14PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

you might explain your graphs, how overpaid they actually are, take a garda for example, what is a garda's basic pay, and what should they be paid?
Are our social welfare rates too high, if the differential between low paid public servants and welfare is so low as claimed above?

This has been done to death. They should be paid in line with their European counterparts. SW is not to high Any lower and people would not be able to Survive. Welfare was reduced at the start of the bust prices still went up from CT rates.

To Elland Back · 21-05-2015 07:18PM

Fear Ciarrai wrote: »

True. Clerical officer starts on E409.06. Dole E200 apppox. Cost of travel, rent allowance into consideration. But we are all to get a huge 2per cent increase, I might refuse it cos Im overpaid!

Depends on what you do and how many hours you work. Many private sector workers, 9-5, 5 days a week, would love to be on that

Fear Ciarrai · 21-05-2015 07:44PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote:

And lower paid private sector jobs are different in this regard how?

Never said they were different.

daithi7 · 21-05-2015 07:49PM

http://ronanlyons.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wages-graph.png

daithi7 · 21-05-2015 07:51PM

daithi7 wrote: »

http://ronanlyons.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wages-graph.png

And

http://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2011/sep/13/ireland-civil-servants-pay

Roger Hassenforder · 21-05-2015 08:32PM

daithi7 wrote: »

http://ronanlyons.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/wages-graph.png

meaningless graph.
Ever hear the hospital beside a factory analogy?

Roger Hassenforder · 21-05-2015 09:23PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

This has been done to death. They should be paid in line with their European counterparts. SW is not to high Any lower and people would not be able to Survive. Welfare was reduced at the start of the bust prices still went up from CT rates.

Generally, they are, and at the moment there is very little between take home pay of bottom grades public servants and those on social welfare.
According to ECB, IMF Irish Public servants are paid as per EU averages, with the exception of top civil servants and hospital consultants (but these are paid even more in UK, Belgium, New Zealand, Italy).
here.
or this one

& Where's my MNC?

daithi7 · 21-05-2015 09:28PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

meaningless graph.
Ever hear the hospital beside a factory analogy?

Yeah, except its a bs lazy argument, typical public service BS tbh. Many sectors of the private sector now have a higher education level than the average public sector worker, e.g. It, financial services, consultancy,etc, etc

And, when normalised for education and other factors e.g. age, seniority,,etc etc the publicservice in Ireland are still paid more than 20% more than their private sector Equivalents... before permanency, gold plated pension, holidays, sick day ' entitlements', etc, etc, etc.
QED

Roger Hassenforder · 21-05-2015 10:30PM

daithi7 wrote: »

Yeah, except its a bs lazy argument, typical public service BS tbh. Many sectors of the private sector now have a higher education level than the average public sector worker, e.g. It, financial services, consultancy,etc, etc

And, when normalised for education and other factors e.g. age, seniority,,etc etc the publicservice in Ireland are still paid more than 20% than their private sector Equivalents... before permanency, gold plated pension, holidays, sick day ' entitlements', etc, etc, etc.
QED

so you haven't read it going by that response.:rolleyes:

Not many radiographers working on factory assembly lines; not many obstetric consultants in the warehouse; not many physiotherapists driving forklifts etc. etc. Even the poorer paid workers in a hospital (e.g. cleaners and canteen staff) are usually outsourced private sector staff.

Your 20% figure, source please, but I'll assume quoting the CSO indirectly? is based on a gross figure and does not even include the PRD. Average Public service pay is skewed by the (vastly) higher earners. 45% of public servants earn less than €40,000 a year. 68% of public servants earn less than €50,000 a year. Average industrial wage = €41,806.96 (which doesnt include bonuses, BIK etc.) (2012), and doesnt incude the hospitality/retail sector, per IBEC the average there is 30,000, further pulling down "average" private sector pay.

why aren't you exercising yourself over the disparity between pay for male V female form the same report? I'll wager its because you're male private sector...? or the pay disparity between retail and IT at 93%, oh wait... its because we pay differently for different jobs... not many retail jobs in the private sector we can compare to.

your report if im correct: . on average, public service workers have higher educational attainment, longer service, are older, and are more likely to be in professional jobs than their counterparts in the private sector. These remain the most significant factors in explaining any premium in public sector pay. and admits the gap could actually be from minus 1.4% 11.4%, when Pension levy factored in.

here's what Fintan O'Toole had to say

but keep trotting out the standard BS, we'll keep refuting it.

daithi7 · 21-05-2015 11:12PM

Two more info graphs to again illustrate the current over pay that our public service receive relative to their EU peers already. These are some of the same EU creditor nations that we are borrowing off monthly to over pay our public servants yet more than theirs. Go figure hey!?

daithi7 · 21-05-2015 11:15PM

And all this excess pay for less hours worked apparently.......value for money how are you!?

Monife · 22-05-2015 09:06AM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

This has been done to death. They should be paid in line with their European counterparts. SW is not to high Any lower and people would not be able to Survive. Welfare was reduced at the start of the bust prices still went up from CT rates.

Are you kidding? SW is way too high. When it makes more sense for someone to be on SW than to take a €10 per hour full time job, then it is too high. SW is suppose to be a stepping stone for people to get back on their feet, not a way of life. It should provide the most basic necessities: shelter and food and not much else.

daithi7 wrote: »

And all this excess pay for less hours worked apparently.......value for money how are you!?

Well that graph is complete bullsh*t! It is giving the average daily hours worked as just under 6.2. Grades from CO to HEO have to work 7 hours 24 minutes every day (not including lunch). APs and POs (and higher) work much longer hours.

Monife · 22-05-2015 09:12AM

daithi7 wrote: »

Two more info graphs to again illustrate the current over pay that our public service receive relative to their EU peers already. These are some of the same EU creditor nations that we are borrowing off monthly to over pay our public servants yet more than theirs. Go figure hey!?

Again with the absolute bullsh*t. Not even the Taoiseach earns the stated wage that is on that graph, converted to euro it is just over 200K but Enda earns €185,350.

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-05-2015 10:04AM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

so you haven't read it going by that response.:rolleyes:

Not many radiographers working on factory assembly lines; not many obstetric consultants in the warehouse; not many physiotherapists driving forklifts etc. etc. Even the poorer paid workers in a hospital (e.g. cleaners and canteen staff) are usually outsourced private sector staff.

Your 20% figure, source please, but I'll assume quoting the CSO indirectly? is based on a gross figure and does not even include the PRD. Average Public service pay is skewed by the (vastly) higher earners. 45% of public servants earn less than €40,000 a year. 68% of public servants earn less than €50,000 a year. Average industrial wage = €41,806.96 (which doesnt include bonuses, BIK etc.) (2012), and doesnt incude the hospitality/retail sector, per IBEC the average there is 30,000, further pulling down "average" private sector pay.

why aren't you exercising yourself over the disparity between pay for male V female form the same report? I'll wager its because you're male private sector...? or the pay disparity between retail and IT at 93%, oh wait... its because we pay differently for different jobs... not many retail jobs in the private sector we can compare to.

your report if im correct: . on average, public service workers have higher educational attainment, longer service, are older, and are more likely to be in professional jobs than their counterparts in the private sector. These remain the most significant factors in explaining any premium in public sector pay. and admits the gap could actually be from minus 1.4% 11.4%, when Pension levy factored in.

here's what Fintan O'Toole had to say

but keep trotting out the standard BS, we'll keep refuting it.

Of course because everyone in these factories drive forklifts. Lads that's the end of debate. Tied up with a nice bow
What about the likes of porters in hospitals. Load of education there too.

Geuze · 22-05-2015 10:10AM

daithi7 wrote: »

And, when normalised for education and other factors e.g. age, seniority,,etc etc the publicservice in Ireland are still paid more than 20% more than their private sector Equivalents... before permanency, gold plated pension, holidays, sick day ' entitlements', etc, etc, etc.
QED

Note that the PS pay premium is now reduced to approx [-1% to +1%].

And that is before the third paycut (Haddington road).

See recent research here:

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/earnings/2010/publicprivatepay.pdf

draiochtanois · 22-05-2015 10:15AM

This post has been deleted.

Jawgap · 22-05-2015 10:21AM

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's funny, when the CSO research showed a 14%+ premium for PS workers people were acting like they were Moses with the tablets!

Now, when the research doesn't suit preconceptions it's dismissed........

Public sector pay increase

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