Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

S506 - Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken - Have Read the Books

Options
135

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    tommy2bad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,255 ✭✭✭tommy2bad


    Jofspring wrote: »
    So as it stands do people feel since they have deviated from the books that they are making a balls of it?

    Weaker writing, weaker actors, weaker production value.

    Has a lot of what's been great about it been that they have followed the storylines from great books but now when they are going their own way they are doing a poorer job or are people happy with it so far?

    It's certainly gotten lazy!
    Sansa repeating Dani's story line wedding wise ( given away by brother, crude brutish husband, raped on wedding night,) what odds she will end up running the place?
    As to Dorn! Might as well have skipped it completely, if it weren't for Marcella being their I think they would have. Which leads to poor old Bran and why they have abandoned what small story he has left.
    Theirs no sense of the chaos and scramble for power in the wake of TywinsTywins death that the books have, this feels more preordered.

    On the other hand Triyion is still an interesting character, his story moves along more naturally than in the books. Dannie is in a holding position at this stage in the books but seems to be progressing in the tv show.

    I think we can take it that we will get two different endings in the books and show, if we ever get an ending to the books, maybe that's not a bad thing, I couldn't wait for the last season of GoT as long as I've waited for the last book.


  • Options
    #63
    Yakuza
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?


  • Options
    #64
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,946 ✭✭✭Daith


    Yakuza wrote: »
    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?

    It should be the consummation invalidating it


  • Options
    #65
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Yakuza wrote: »
    A small point, but it has been bugging me. Isn't Sansa still technically married to Tyrion, or does Kinslaying invalidate any such bonds?. Perhaps because the marriage was never consummated, then it was possible to set it aside? They made a whole song and dance about setting aside her betrothal to Joffrey, yet her marrying (again) didn't rate a mention (that I noticed at any rate; I tend to watch it late at night!).

    Or is it just another plot hole that has been left lying around?
    Basically until consummated the marriage contract is not valid (Remember the comment after Sansa's wedding night from Tywin about just **** her once and then let her grow older before impregnating her to Tyvin to make sure the marriage was completed and sealed); this is why there were such a big thing about Margaery still being a virgin after her marriage to Renly Baratheon so that she could successfully wed Joffrey and then Tommen accordingly.

    Also the only reason I can see behind this Dorne story arc is remind people they still exist for their upcoming uprising (only question is with whom they are going to raise the banners with) because they have cut out so much else (the experimentation of the Mountain and his rise to death knight, the King's Guard who was suppose to guard the princess, the lover he takes and the betrayal he needs to decide on etc.).


  • Options
    #66
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    GRRM tortures himself to make sure every line of the books is consistent and correct in terms of plot, timeline, geography, characters traits, motivations and established knowledge.
    TV writers just casually take an axe to all that - if for plot reasons someone needs to have a sudden and unexplained total character shift then so be it. Need an action sequence - shove it in no matter how inconsistent it makes the overall story, sure we can just ignore it down the line.

    Theres a happy medium somewhere, but I think its towards the GRRM way more than the TV way, and I'm kind of content now that he is taking his time writing the books.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    Yakuza
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Yakuza


    Cheers folks. I wish Tommen had shown some balls and had the High Sparrow and his followers filleted (we are departing from the books, after all!). I really can't wait for Cersei's comeuppance. It's been almost five seaons in the making!


  • Options
    #68
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Jofspring wrote: »
    Ya Dorne is terrible and i did enjoy it in the books. Mainly because we see Dorans over all plan. That doesn't seem to be happening in the TV show so that has made all this pretty pointless so far.

    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.


  • Options
    #69
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.

    Unless they do the twist that Tyrstane is Aegon.

    Or they have plan to marry Tyrstane to Dany somehow, no ground work whatsover has been layed for this.


  • Options
    #70
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Doran's plan in the books though revolved around Quentyn wooing Dany, and his daughter marrying Aegon. Of those characters Dany is the only one still in the show so I really don't see why they bothered with Dorne.
    The only reason is because Dorne obviously has to do something important down the line; if not there's no reason to keep on running with them and the only thing I can see is for them to raise their army to go raiding (but on whom and for what reason is tbc).


  • Options
    #71
    Noopti
    Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭Noopti


    I'm still holding out hope that Lady Stoneheart makes an appearance, as a "WTF!?!" moment - which I think this season needs.

    Or that they manage to get Victarion and Euron into things, seeing as they have ignored the Greyjoys now for a long while.

    These are storylines/characters which could liven things up a bit. Probably won't happen at all....but just imagine if Stoneheart does appear......


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,218 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    I wouldn't hold your breath, I remember reading at the end of series4 that Lady Stoneheart has been totally cut


  • Options
    #73
    3qsmavrod5twfe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭3qsmavrod5twfe


    Nody wrote: »
    The problem is he's already confronted Cersei about it and joined them yet he has not confessed about it? It simply does not add up to me that's all; hence why I'm wondering if there's someone else instead.



    I'm working on the assumption that the High Sparrow isn't as single-minded as he is been given credit for. Like everyone else he is probably playing the long game. It doesn't achieve anything for him or the faith at the moment as their power only extends from a royal decree. Everything thus far is happening behind closed doors where Cersei would feel safer. She can hide behind the White Cloaks while accusations are thrown, sick the boys on the faith militant and at the same time issue another decree declaring the Faith Militant an illegal organization due to some trumped up story of heavy handedness with the king. I would imagine there will be some way she or Lancel will be put on the stand in a public hearing and at that point the accusation will be made and evidence presented - it will be all in the open and she will be in less of a position to renounce anything related to the Faith Militant so it will be a much safer position for the High Sparrow.


    Maybe I'm way off here, but the circumstances in the book are different enough to need a different vehicle for Cersei's conviction. IIRC one of the Kettleblacks admitted to carnal relations out of wedlock with Cersei when he was being questioned in relation to the Margaery allegations, and then Lancel corroborated this which was the basis for her detention/trial. Also in the show there was no concession given by the faith to regain the faith militant whereas in the books they cancelled the royal debt in payment for reinstating it. I think this gave the faith a far stronger position in the books that they don't have in the show and therefore need to be sure of allegations sticking as they don't have the royal debt to hang over the Iron Throne.


  • Options
    #74
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Noopti wrote: »
    I'm still holding out hope that Lady Stoneheart makes an appearance, as a "WTF!?!" moment - which I think this season needs.

    Or that they manage to get Victarion and Euron into things, seeing as they have ignored the Greyjoys now for a long while.

    These are storylines/characters which could liven things up a bit. Probably won't happen at all....but just imagine if Stoneheart does appear......

    at this stage the non buke people will just go "who's she again?" its been that long since the character made an appearance


  • Options
    #75
    Liam O
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    I reckon Kevan and Pycelle bite the dust at the end of this season. Lancel is a mcguffin to get Kevan back by the end of the season.


  • Options
    #76
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    The "Xena Warrior Princess" comments really hits the nail on the head for me.
    It also created the cardinal sin of sword fights ... have someone holding a sword punch someone in the face instead of slashing or stabbing (Bronn punched one of the SS when she was falling backwards).


  • Options
    #77
    PIORUN
    Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭PIORUN


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    How did Tyrion know about Lord Commander Mormont?
    Jon Snow was tweeting about it.#FML #LMFAO


  • Options
    #78
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    The Greyjoys must be dropped at this stage. Tyrion is too close to Meereen for them just to appear in that plotline.

    Having them involved in the Bolton storyline might work but it means having no battle at the end of this series as they'd need a fair few episodes to introduce new characters. Unless they are just going to have Yara play everyone


  • Options
    #79
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    I love the show and the books for the most part, the gripe I'd have is that the show should tighten up the central cast, The Ironborn and their whole election process furthers nothing in the book, it just gives another blast of names to keep track of. It should be cut completely IMO, Same goes for Dorne. I'm glad they didnt go down the tyrion line of the female dwarf!, If i remember the books correctly, Bron is never again heard from after the death of Tywin, so the whole trip to Dorne thing is just to keep a popular character on screen a bit longer.

    If I was to rate the different regions of the land out of 10, it'd be as follows

    The wall - 10/10 - close to the books, and no unneeded subplots
    Kings landing 9/10 - pretty close to the books, but stuff like the mountain and that creepy maester have all but been forgotten about - i like the handling of the sparrows.
    Bravos - 9/10 - sticking close to the books, looking forward to seeing where it goes from here.
    Winterfell - 8/10 -Ramsay is closing in on Joffrey as the TV character I'd most like to punch, Tying Sansa in here is probably best for tightening up the story
    North of the Wall - 6/10 - I didn't like Brans story in the book, and nothing has changed here.
    Volantis / wherever Dany is 4/10 - Still reflecting that one of the most interesting storylines in the book became one of the most boring. It really needs to kick up a gear and stop wasting time with things like Grey worms love life.
    Dorne - 2/10. No. Just, no. cut it all and put the budget elsewhere.
    The Riverlands -n/a All but forgotten about, Also, I can't understand the excitement for stoneheart, she barely figured in the books, and makes no sense to have a minor involvement, same goes for Beric Dondarrion.


  • Options
    #80
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »
    excitement for stoneheart, she barely figured in the books, and makes no sense to have a minor involvement, same goes for Beric Dondarrion.
    Because she's due to come back in the next book and there are some major characters who's life depends on it. There are also some very scary similarities to the whites in terms of the resurrections, the whole band feeling gloomy etc. hinting at that there's something not quite right with the whole Light Lord's power as it's been made out to be the fire branch in the night which may turn out that he's actually not the good guy after all (who requires his followers to clench his sword in his wife's heart?!).


  • Options
    #81
    Liam O
    Registered Users Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    The problem is that in the books you get the feel of concurrent storylines without actually needing a POV to tell us what's happening. There's dots that can be connected to have an idea of what is going on without being explicitly told. The show doesn't have that luxury and is handling it badly imo. Introducing characters and forgetting about them because they are inconvenient stinks of bad planning which is certainly something that is hard to criticise the books for. Bad adaptation of other characters changing nature episode to episode and season to season to make it convenient rather than have a plan for the character is getting to criminal levels.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Nody wrote: »
    Because she's due to come back in the next book and there are some major characters who's life depends on it. There are also some very scary similarities to the whites in terms of the resurrections, the whole band feeling gloomy etc. hinting at that there's something not quite right with the whole Light Lord's power as it's been made out to be the fire branch in the night which may turn out that he's actually not the good guy after all (who requires his followers to clench his sword in his wife's heart?!).

    As I understand it GRRM has outlined how it all ends to the Showrunners. If thats the case, theres simply no good reason to let a major character like that remain offscreen for 2 whole seasons, only to drop them back in like a magical macguffin to tie up all the loose ends.

    There are areas where the TV show really shines - Roose Bolton really gets his due on the show in comparison to the books - as is Stannis Baratheon, But the Onion knight is getting short changed.


  • Options
    #83
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Liam O wrote: »
    The problem is that in the books you get the feel of concurrent storylines without actually needing a POV to tell us what's happening. There's dots that can be connected to have an idea of what is going on without being explicitly told. The show doesn't have that luxury and is handling it badly imo. Introducing characters and forgetting about them because they are inconvenient stinks of bad planning which is certainly something that is hard to criticise the books for. Bad adaptation of other characters changing nature episode to episode and season to season to make it convenient rather than have a plan for the character is getting to criminal levels.

    Exactly this. at times it feels like a test screening - The viper went down a treat with the audience, so now we're getting more of his miserable looking wife. Bronn, (and I'll admit, I LOVE Bron, both in the books and the show) as I said earlier, is there now, purely because everyone loves him.

    Theres an amazing, coherent, logical story that can be pared out of the wealth of material that's in the books, its just that they're making a balls of a lot of it.


  • Options
    #84
    podgemonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

    Theres simply no good reason to let a major character like that remain offscreen for 2 whole seasons, only to drop them back in like a magical macguffin to tie up all the loose ends.

    21 Episodes passed between Jaquen H'guar appearance in Season 2 and Season 5
    19 Episodes passed between Walder Frey's first and second appearance.
    16 Episodes passed between Mance Raydar's appearance at the end of Season 4.
    Barriston went missing for 12 episodes.

    The Stoneheart character exists in a another subset of plots which is the how unsettled the Riverlands are. For the show it means entire additional set of film locations, costumes and cast contracts. I really do hope we return to the Riverlands next season. I don't think they could fit it in this year.


  • Options
    #85
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.


  • Options
    #86
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.

    That would make no sense .... and yet be incredible!


  • Options
    #87
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    razorblunt wrote: »
    That would make no sense .... and yet be incredible!

    We see from Arya's warg dreams that Nymeria is roaming the countryside with her wolfpack - given the way things are turning is it too much to ask for?


  • Options
    #88
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    I think they're actually going to give the audience what they want for once and we're going to see Ramsey die horribly before the end of the season. That episode served to enhance our cravings for his blood.

    Maybe a certain Direwolf will jump out of the darkness during the battle with Stannis and bite his junk off.
    If you're going down the revenge route I'd stay captured by Stanis and thrown in with his dogs to be torn apart. It would fit with he he hunted down other girls with his dog for them to torn him apart or him trying to run away only to be hunted down in the forest like prey with only a cry of pain as it fades to black.


  • Options
    #89
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Nody wrote:
    with only a cry of pain as it fades to black.


    Fúck that!! I want to SEE him suffer


  • Options
    #90
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,274 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Fúck that!! I want to SEE him suffer
    Not going to happen if they go down that route for the same reason you did not get to see the rape scene of Sansa; people's imagination is stronger then what ever they could show with in the rating requirements.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    Nody wrote: »
    Not going to happen if they go down that route for the same reason you did not get to see the rape scene of Sansa; people's imagination is stronger then what ever they could show with in the rating requirements.

    Ned's head on a spike??


Advertisement