Is it really necessary for the OP to start a discussion?

Cold War Kid · 17-05-2015 07:02PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To set a structure to the topic at hand.

God, people need that when the discussion topic is obvious?

DareGod · 17-05-2015 07:03PM

Imagine that in real life. A group of people sitting around:

Person 1: "So what did you guys think about [insert topical news story here] ?"

Other person: "Why would you bring up that topic if you're not going to give your opinion straight after asking the question? We're not giving you our opinion until you give us yours! Give us your opinion on the matter and then we might answer you."

Jesus wept. Nonsense.

DareGod · 17-05-2015 07:05PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I have no problem with someone writing something like, 'hey, I found this article and I'm not sure what to think of it myself, and I was wondering if some of the more knowledgeable folks on AH could help me understand it a bit better'. No problem at all, anybody that did is just being dickish.

What I have a problem with is someone posting a rake of copypasta followed by 'thoughts?' or 'discuss'. It completely demeans the site imo.

Well yeah, fair enough, I agree with that. If they can't even type out a full sentence asking for opinions, and instead have just written "Thoughts?" or "Discuss" that would be spam, IMO. But if they've asked "What do you all think about this?" then I see no harm in them starting the conversation without giving their own opinion first; perhaps they haven't yet formed an opinion.

The Backwards Man · 17-05-2015 07:09PM

DareGod wrote: »

Imagine that in real life. A group of people sitting around:

Person 1: "So what did you guys think about [insert topical news story here] ?"

Other person: "Why would you bring up that topic if you're not going to give your opinion straight after asking the question? We're not giving you our opinion until you give us yours! Give us your opinion on the matter and then we might answer you."

Jesus wept. Nonsense.

Online discussion cannot be compared to real life interaction. The parameters are totally different, and I think you should be aiming for a higher level of discourse when conversing on the internet for two reasons.

1) It's a lot more difficult to convey emotion and intent

2) Once it's out there, it's out there for good.

Eugene Norman · 17-05-2015 07:12PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I have no problem with someone writing something like, 'hey, I found this article and I'm not sure what to think of it myself, and I was wondering if some of the more knowledgeable folks on AH could help me understand it a bit better'. No problem at all, anybody that did is just being dickish.

What I have a problem with is someone posting a rake of copypasta followed by 'thoughts?' or 'discuss'. It completely demeans the site imo.

Yeah.

Unlike Reddit, which I don't really visit except when others link to it, this site doesn't have ideological forums ( although it has ideologically tinted forums like Politic's libertarian cabal) with the exception perhaps of ladies lounge, the gentlemans forum, and the religious and atheist forums. That's all a bit unfortunate too.

In those forums you could post a link mocking the patriarchy, feminism, Christianity and/or new atheism without comment, here in AH or the political sub forums comment is necessary.

Posting a link without comment about the recent Mediterranean boat crisis is pointless in AH, because nobody can assume the OP's position. To start the discussion the OP needs to say "this is bad" or "this is good" preferably with sane commentary.

dxhound2005 · 17-05-2015 07:18PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Boards in different rules to reddit shock.

Indeed. This is what the Charter says. Everyone has read the Charter, right?

No pointless threads, posts or polls

Think before you post.
Pointless threads (e.g. 1,000 posts \o/), polls (e.g. Daddy or chips?) will be locked or deleted. Please contribute to your own threads. If you're asking somebody to forward an opinion put one forward yourself first.
Pointless posts (e.g. yore ma, first!, w00t!, +1, ibtl) will be removed on sight. Persistent offenders may be banned for this.

gandalf · 17-05-2015 07:23PM

To be honest there is a reason that this rule exists. If it didn't then the forum would be full of these types of posts. I am only familiar with the reason for it in the Politics forum because I moderated it in the past. When someone pops in and posts a link to an article with no details on what is contained in there and then says discuss it will not amount to much. I tend not to click on links unless I have an idea what is there, this is especially true when people use shortened urls. Typically in Politics a thread is expected to include a certain level of serious discussion therefore it is expected that a OP shows their opinion on what the topic is about. From my perspective it is respectful of the forum, it's regular contributors and it's ethos.

In After Hours it would be as rigorous and tbh once someone makes an effort to engage with the other contributors I don't see any problem. I do think there is a problem with hit and run url drops with the word "discuss" added to them.

Saipanne · 17-05-2015 07:26PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Every time I see "you first" etc., it annoys me.. Especially if a couple of posters have already started the discussion and the ninth post is a snarky "well what do you think about it OP?".

There are plenty of topics that people don't really have opinions on and just want to hear what others think. I far pretfer the /r/Askreddit approach of just throwing a question out there.

For example, "Reddit (AH), what is the hardest truth to accept?" just couldn't work here as I'd have to sit and think of my own example or risk having it derailed.

Yeah, the preserve of the boards Nazis. I picture them like Comic Book Guy from The Simpson's.

I also dislike the /thread post. They must be surprised when the thread continues.

Geniass · 17-05-2015 07:31PM

How are college/school kids to get their projects done or lazy reporters get their next story if they cannot ask questions without much effort?

gandalf · 17-05-2015 07:32PM

Geniass wrote: »

How are college/school kids to get their projects done or lazy reporters get their next story if they cannot ask questions without much effort?

Reddit apparently :P

Robsweezie · 17-05-2015 07:33PM

What often happens is when someone posts "you first" and that's it, they're not contributing any more than the OP . It's just pedantry for the sake of it. A disease of this forum.

I don't support the link bombing crap. But when asking a question on a social issue, I try to put forth an opinion as often as I can even if I don't want to, because I know too well the pedants won't be happy if I don't.

anncoates · 17-05-2015 07:41PM

Robsweezie wrote: »

What often happens is when someone posts "you first" and that's it, they're not contributing any more than the OP

They're often contributing far less as at least the OP is often facilitating a discussion, even if not conforming to some hoary debating society etiquette.

The Backwards Man · 17-05-2015 07:43PM

anncoates wrote: »

They're often contributing far less as at least the OP is often facilitating a discussion, even if not conforming to some hoary debating society etiquette.

Or, they are merely reciprocating the disdain the OP has chosen to treat them with.

Eugene Norman · 17-05-2015 07:52PM

anncoates wrote: »

They're often contributing far less as at least the OP is often facilitating a discussion, even if not conforming to some hoary debating society etiquette.

Since those people are back seat moderating, which is also against the rules, that's a given. This thread isn't about them (that's a pointless distraction) , it's about whether someone can just drop a link into a thread he or she started without comment.

silverfeather · 17-05-2015 07:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Every time I see "you first" etc., it annoys me.. Especially if a couple of posters have already started the discussion and the ninth post is a snarky "well what do you think about it OP?".

There are plenty of topics that people don't really have opinions on and just want to hear what others think. I far prefer the /r/Askreddit approach of just throwing a question out there.

For example, "Reddit (AH), what is the hardest truth to accept?" just couldn't work here as I'd have to sit and think of my own example or risk having it derailed.

Too many threads would get started.

anncoates · 17-05-2015 07:54PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Or, they are merely reciprocating the disdain the OP has chosen to treat them with.

If people are that sensitive to badly formed opinions, or lack of them, they might need to leave the Internet.

r93kaey5p2izun · 17-05-2015 07:55PM

I don't disagree with the rule but find the "you first" type comments more annoying than people posting links without comment - especially if a discussion has already started. It should be left to the mods to use their discretion in dealing with it as it arises imo instead of petty backseat modding.

Eugene Norman · 17-05-2015 07:56PM

Someone said that you wouldn't expect a friend to give his opinion, on say the British election, but could ask your opinion on it without giving his. That works for well known topics, and he would know your interests and that you are political. This is not a pub.

I don't want threads like.

This is mad

http://linktoboringtopicnobodycaresabout.com

Without comment. At least describe the link.

The Backwards Man · 17-05-2015 08:01PM

anncoates wrote: »

If people are that sensitive to badly formed opinions, or lack of them, they might need to leave the Internet.

Nothing wrong with a badly formed opinion (well there's plenty wrong with a badly formed opinion, that's beside the point:pac:)

It's nothing to do with being sensitive or otherwise, it's a less than polite reminder that if you're not going to bother your arse making any useful contribution to the thread YOU decided to start in the first place, then why the fcuk should I?

Cold War Kid · 17-05-2015 08:07PM

What if they don't have a contribution to give, but would like to see what others have to say?

anncoates · 17-05-2015 08:08PM

"The wrote:

if you're not going to bother your arse making any useful contribution to the thread YOU decided to start in the first place, then why the fcuk should I?

Then don't. Ignore it.

Others may join in discussion.

If nobody does, the thread dies.

It seems a very trivial thing to get annoyed about compared to other things.

I'm usually OKish with the level of moderation in AH as I understand it's largely forced upon them and I don't particularly want a reddit or 4chan but what I do hate in AH is the level of backseat modding where people actively try and mould the forum to their own, usually trivial, preferences and end up creating worse noise than the original issue.

Depends on the post, but maybe kicking off a discussion is enough in most cases

The Backwards Man · 17-05-2015 08:11PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

What if they don't have a contribution to give, but would like to see what others have to say?

Then it's not too hard to say that in your post.

The Backwards Man · 17-05-2015 08:15PM

anncoates wrote: »

Then don't. Ignore it.

Others may join in discussion.

If nobody does, the thread dies.

It seems a very trivial thing to get annoyed about compared to other things.

I'm usually OKish with the level of moderation in AH as I understand it's largely forced upon them and I don't particularly want a reddit or 4chan but what I do hate in AH is the level of backseat modding where people actively try and mould the forum to their own, usually trivial, preferences and end up creating worse noise than the original issue.

Depends on the post, but maybe kicking off a discussion is enough in most cases

I don't think anybody's getting annoyed about it, not me anyway. Now, if threads on here starting reading like a transcript from Beavis and Butthead, then yeah maybe I might start getting a wee bit annoyed.

gandalf · 17-05-2015 08:17PM

anncoates wrote: »

I'm usually OKish with the level of moderation in AH as I understand it's largely forced upon them and I don't particularly want a reddit or 4chan but what I do hate in AH is the level of backseat modding where people actively try and mould the forum to their own, usually trivial, preferences and end up creating worse noise than the original issue.

As bad seat modding is against the charter in most of the forums on boards report them.

Eugene Norman · 17-05-2015 08:20PM

anncoates wrote: »

Then don't. Ignore it.

Others may join in discussion.

If nobody does, the thread dies.

It seems a very trivial thing to get annoyed about compared to other things.

I'm usually OKish with the level of moderation in AH as I understand it's largely forced upon them and I don't particularly want a reddit or 4chan but what I do hate in AH is the level of backseat modding where people actively try and mould the forum to their own, usually trivial, preferences and end up creating worse noise than the original issue.

Depends on the post, but maybe kicking off a discussion is enough in most cases

Oh ffs. The back seat modding is illegal. Report it. We could challenge any rule here by saying "the backseat modding is worse".

Argue for or against the rule not the already illegal response to it.

anncoates · 17-05-2015 08:20PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I don't think anybody's getting annoyed about it, not me anyway. Now, if threads on here starting reading like a transcript from Beavis and Butthead, then yeah maybe I might start getting a wee bit annoyed.

I should point out I think it's rude to just post a link with no description except a teaser line.

I'm thinking more of a link or quoted article with basic description of same and an invitation to discuss.

my teapot is orange · 17-05-2015 08:22PM

If it's a general discussion thread and the OP doesn't have an opinion, they could at least bother to make a couple of points for/against or say what made it come into their head to contribute something to the discussion. I don't expect them to invent an opinion they don't have and keep defending it for the rest of the thread.

What really does annoy me is when the OP asks for information about the lives of others that clearly exists in relation to their own life too, they just don't want to share it. It takes cheek to start a "what do you do for work?" / "are you married?" / "what age are you?" thread without giving your own situation.

One eyed Jack · 17-05-2015 08:22PM

I appreciate when people give their own opinion in their opening post, especially if they go to the effort of thinking up an attention grabbing thread title. It doesn't take much more effort to post their reason for asking or their own opinion on the topic, simply to provide context that would at least set the tone for the discussion, whether it be serious or humorous or whatever.

I like when posters actively contribute to their own threads too as it means they're engaged in the discussion rather than just throwing out the first random brain fart that comes off the top of their heads. Reddit is a completely different social media platform and that's why the whole "ask reddit" thing works, because there's no shortage of people who have opinions on everything under the sun, and they're usually contrarian as... well, I just don't think the "random thought" idea really works on After Hours. I prefer to see some effort made to start a discussion that gets legs.

anncoates · 17-05-2015 08:24PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Oh ffs. The back seat modding is illegal. Report it. We could challenge any rule here by saying "the backseat modding is worse".

Argue for or against the rule not the already illegal response to it.

I have argued against the rule. I think it's pointless. I'd rather see people either choosing to ignore 'unsupported' discussions or take part in them.

The fact that a lot of people can't do that is still a part of the problem.

I'd also be very surprised if people posting stuff like And what is your opinion or And You? would actually get censured even if reported. Open to correction of course.

fedor.2. · 17-05-2015 08:25PM

Reddit is awesome. much better, than boards, for news and information. I just come here for the pretensiousness.

Is it really necessary for the OP to start a discussion?

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