Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

MrWalsh · 15-05-2015 02:01PM

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

I see logic has taken another holiday.

Anita Blow · 15-05-2015 02:02PM

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

They're not mutually exclusive

jobbridge4life · 15-05-2015 02:02PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am concerned when a very wealthy foreign individual sets the Irish political agenda.

Chuck Feeny is an Irish American hero who has donated more and done more for this country than virtually anyone else.

RobertKK · 15-05-2015 02:02PM

Is the referendum commissioner infallible?

Vivisectus · 15-05-2015 02:03PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am an undecided voter. I abhor discrimination but I believe this issue has been cynically prioritised. Why has Atlantic Philanttophies, an organisation controlled by an American billionaire funded the yes campaign to the tune on over €4 million and lobbied to move the issue to the top of the political agenda?

Well, whatever we may feel about how high on the list of priorities this issue should be, we still need to judge it on it's own merit.

I am sure there are people who feel there are bigger fish to fry. But that does not mean that we would not do at least a little good by frying this one. And now that it is on the agenda, we might as well tackle it.

traprunner · 15-05-2015 02:03PM

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

Rhetorical question?

Maximus Alexander · 15-05-2015 02:03PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Is the referendum commissioner infallible?

Yeah, he's like the pope, but for the constitution.

gandalf · 15-05-2015 02:04PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Furthermore you know where the yes campaign got its money, but IONA and co won't tell you were they got theirs. You worried about that?

This is a far more worrying question for me. Where is their outside state funding coming from? Who is funding them? What is the end game of this funding?

It is obvious that this organisation is a political lobbying group yet they get charity status which they shouldn't have.

Who funds Mothers and Fathers matter, who funds the other organisations that have slithered onto the scene in that last month or so.

At least we know about Chuck Feeneys organisation we know very little about the myriad of No campaign organisations beyond the same old figureheads.

sunshine and showers · 15-05-2015 02:04PM

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

Because it's about marriage equality. It's in the marriage part of the Constitution...

ProfessorPlum · 15-05-2015 02:05PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am an undecided voter. I abhor discrimination but I believe this issue has been cynically prioritised. Why has Atlantic Philanttophies, an organisation controlled by an American billionaire funded the yes campaign to the tune on over €4 million and lobbied to move the issue to the top of the political agenda?

I imagine it's probably more to do with political jockeying (FG pick a referendum that they think will pass (it has the backing of all the political parties after all) and will be seen as a great stride forward for human rights, and showcase FG as a brave, modern party, greatly increasing their odds in next years general election.
Or it could be because of a conspiracy theory involving American billionaires ( who up to this point seems to have funded a great number of good causes)

Equally you could ask the same thing of the age of the president vote.

RobertKK · 15-05-2015 02:05PM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Yeah, he's like the pope, but for the constitution.

But even Supreme court judges do have split decisions when it comes to the constitution.

Bannasidhe · 15-05-2015 02:05PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Atlantic Philanthropies also provide some funding for Tusla, who cut funding towards Accord's marriage courses.
Surely this funding also gives some influence?

They also cut funding toward Barnardos... what's your point? Surely you aren't suggesting that Atlantic Philanthropies exerted pressure on Tusla to cut funding to Accord... and Barnardos...

Here is a list of the projects Atlantic Philanthropies have funded in Ireland: http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/search/grants?show_advanced=&keywords=&date_from=2001&regions%5B%5D=664&count=100

All open and above board.

Who funds Iona?

floggg · 15-05-2015 02:06PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am an undecided voter. I abhor discrimination but I believe this issue has been cynically prioritised. Why has Atlantic Philanttophies, an organisation controlled by an American billionaire funded the yes campaign to the tune on over €4 million and lobbied to move the issue to the top of the political agenda?

Because Atlantic Philanthropies donated millions and millions to various worthy causes across Ireland over the years, and if you are a believer in equality you must see this as a worthy cause. Also, that funding dried up years ago - this campaign is being funded by grass roots efforts, tshirt and pin sales etc.

And it was the LGBT community that lobbied for this issue for years and years, and worked hard to make sure it this referendum happened. The funding helped, but it didn't drive the agenda.

I think it is funny you are questioning Marriage Equality's funding, yet have you asked where the No side are getting their funds from? They are well known to have ties with a variety of right wing Catholic organisations in the USA.

Unlike the Yes side however, they don't disclose their finances.

So while Marriage Equality have been transparent about their and hid nothing, the No side have hidden their funding while disingenuously questioning the other sides.

Finally, as has been said time and time again, decide the issue on its merits. If you believe in equality, then you should believe in a Yes.

Even if you dislike that this got funding from a charitable organisation that has donated millions to various causes all over Ireland (I doubt there are many reputable charities that didn't benefit from AP), why would you seek to punish LGBT people like myself by voting no.

A no vote in protest or whatever won't achieve anything, or result in any practical benefit for anybody whatsoever. It will do great harm to many people though. It will deny us the right to marry on equal terms, to have our relationships recognised and protected in the same way as our straight friends' and family's. It well mark us out as different. And it will tell us we are not accepted as equal by our country.

So again, decide the issue on its merits. If you believe in equality, do the right thing and vote yes.

aloyisious · 15-05-2015 02:06PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am an undecided voter. I abhor discrimination but I believe this issue has been cynically prioritised. Why has Atlantic Philanttophies, an organisation controlled by an American billionaire funded the yes campaign to the tune on over €4 million and lobbied to move the issue to the top of the political agenda?

I think that if you go deeper into the story written by Breda, you'll find that the funding didn't all go to GLEN, that it was dispersed amongst a variety of causes and charities. This link might be helpful to you..............

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCUQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atlanticphilanthropies.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fuploads%2FAtlantic-LGBTCluster-ROI.pdf&ei=Ne9VVaCZGITn7gbD4oGYBQ&usg=AFQjCNFjRitDOFX-XrTG_BblXNxD-Pc0Hw&sig2=HW-SXQ4ppPjBKtSoXpa5fw

There have been "stories" floating around on the net that Iona are going to release information on who has been funding it. This may be a change in it's practice as it reportedly has (to date) refused to provide that information to anyone, incl the charity authority itself.

RobertKK · 15-05-2015 02:06PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

They also cut funding toward Barnardos... what's your point? Surely you aren't suggesting that Atlantic Philanthropies exerted pressure on Tusla to cut funding to Accord... and Barnardos...

Here is a list of the projects Atlantic Philanthropies have funded in Ireland: http://www.atlanticphilanthropies.org/search/grants?show_advanced=&keywords=&date_from=2001&regions%5B%5D=664&count=100

All open and above board.

Who funds Iona?

I never said they were not open.

If it concerns you about who funds Iona, why don't you ask them, I don't know if it is American money like the Yes side are getting.

seamus · 15-05-2015 02:08PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am concerned when a very wealthy foreign individual sets the Irish political agenda.

The ICCL has already confirmed that the funding received from this source is not used for any kind of political campaigning. Link.

Hilarious that Breda is trying to dig up dirt on the funding of other bodies when her own affiliations blanket refuse to disclose the source of theirs.

sunshine and showers · 15-05-2015 02:08PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I never said they were not open.

If it concerns you about who funds Iona, why don't you ask them, I don't know if it is American money like the Yes side are getting.

Lots of people have asked them where they get their funding. They refuse to comply and publish their financial sources.

MrWalsh · 15-05-2015 02:09PM

RobertKK wrote: »

I never said they were not open.

If it concerns you about who funds Iona, why don't you ask them, I don't know if it is American money like the Yes side are getting.

hehehehe - its far far more than the yes side could ever hope to get.

osarusan · 15-05-2015 02:09PM

seamus wrote: »

The ICCL has already confirmed that the funding received from this source is not used for any kind of political campaigning. Link.

Hi SafeSurfer, I really think this should set your mind at ease.

RobertKK · 15-05-2015 02:11PM

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Lots of people have asked them where they get their funding. They refuse to comply and publish their financial sources.

ok, you don't know.

MrWalsh wrote: »

hehehehe - its far far more than the yes side could ever hope to get.

You do apparently, enlighten us.

traprunner · 15-05-2015 02:12PM

seamus wrote: »

The ICCL has already confirmed that the funding received from this source is not used for any kind of political campaigning. Link.

Hilarious that Breda is trying to dig up dirt on the funding of other bodies when her own affiliations blanket refuse to disclose the source of theirs.

For those that don't want to make an effort to click and read I have cut and paste the Irish Council for Civil Liberties so you can read it. Gon on ya know who you are and ya want to read it

ICCL Statement
The Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) has noted recent comments by certain media and political commentators from the religious right insinuating that the ICCL has received funding from the Atlantic Philanthropies that is being used to support the Yes Equality referendum campaign for civil marriage equality.
This is untrue. No funds received by the ICCL from the Atlantic Philanthropies have been spent by the ICCL on campaigning for a political purpose, either in the context of the current referendum or at any other time. Furthermore, all funds expended by the Council in the context of the marriage equality referendum have been raised and are being spent in a manner that is entirely compliant with the Electoral Acts.
The ICCL is very proud that, over many years, its work to advocate for full equality for same sex couples and on a broad range of other human rights issues has attracted significant philanthropic funding, including from the Atlantic Philanthropies.

ENDS

Bannasidhe · 15-05-2015 02:13PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am concerned when a very wealthy foreign individual sets the Irish political agenda.

Like the wealthy foreign individuals in Legatus who throw the odd few shekels at Lolek Ltd trading as The Iona Institute? http://bocktherobber.com/2013/06/what-exactly-is-the-iona-institute/

Or the wealthy foreign individuals who helped fund the War of Independence?

As long as it is open I have no problem with it which brings us to who did pay for all those No posters? Any one know?

Hyzepher · 15-05-2015 02:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

Because that's where the inequality lies.

sunshine and showers · 15-05-2015 02:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

ok, you don't know.

Nobody but the Iona Institute themselves knows where their money comes from. They actively refuse to reveal where it comes from. Don't you find that even a tiny bit suspicious? Does that not make you feel slightly uncomfortable?

ProfessorPlum · 15-05-2015 02:15PM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is good that Ursual Halligan got to have her say and at her timing, unlike what she did to Brian Lenihan and his cancer diagnosis.

RobertKK wrote: »

Atlantic Philanthropies also provide some funding for Tusla, who cut funding towards Accord's marriage courses.
Surely this funding also gives some influence?

RobertKK wrote: »

If it is about equality, why is the legislation in the family section of the constitution and not the equality section?

RobertKK wrote: »

Is the referendum commissioner infallible?

Robert, what is your opinion on the actual issue of SSM?

Same question to SS

MrWalsh · 15-05-2015 02:20PM

RobertKK wrote: »

You do apparently, enlighten us.

I do what? Know its far more? Sure thats obvious by the amount of No Posters and campaign material versus Yes.

MrWalsh · 15-05-2015 02:20PM

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Robert, what is your opinion on the actual issue of SSM?

Same question to SS

Its just water muddying. Again.

jobbridge4life · 15-05-2015 02:21PM

I have looked through the grants made by The Atlantic Philanthropies to organisations in the Republic of Ireland since 2001, and LGBT organisations account for 1.1% of them.
The remaining 98.9% of funds have been give to organisations with programmes focused on:
- Children & Youth – Community Development – Higher Education – Health – Science – Youth Development – Ageing. The highest of these grants was $22 million, given to St James Hospital in 2006.

From Broadsheet. Wow... and with that specific 1.1% the gays took over the world.

Baggy Trousers · 15-05-2015 02:22PM

If the No vote wins, we should change the country's name to "Republic of Homophobic Ireland".

ProfessorPlum · 15-05-2015 02:24PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Its just water muddying. Again.

Which seems to be the No.1 tactic of the no campaign - introduce irrelevant nonsence and derail the conversation into talking about something different. Because they know they couldn't win if they stick to the actual issues.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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