Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

gandalf · 14-05-2015 06:31PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Die hard 4 is the one everyone else tends to forget about.

Die Hard 4 is a masterpiece compared to the final film!!! I want the time back that I wasted watching that abomination (a bit like the time I wasted watching Ronan Mullens lie on RTE the other night!).

efb · 14-05-2015 06:42PM

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

gandalf · 14-05-2015 06:48PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

What would be interesting is to compel these people to declare if they are members of organisations like Opus Dei if they are taking up teaching posts.

frostyjacks · 14-05-2015 06:49PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Die hard 4 is the one everyone else tends to forget about.

I thought it was ok, a lot better than people give it credit for. Timothy Olyphant was a decent villain ("You're a Timex watch in a digital age").

I wonder how John McClane would vote on this referendum. He's a typical Irish American cop but I think his kids are old enough now to make him reconsider his opinions.

VinLieger · 14-05-2015 06:52PM

gandalf wrote: »

What would be interesting is to compel these people to declare if they are members of organisations like Opus Dei if they are taking up teaching posts.

I love it when teachers describe themselves as "religion teachers" newsflash you don't teach religion you teach catholicism

endacl · 14-05-2015 06:58PM

Montgolfier wrote: »

I'm not interested in change of marriage I'm interested in keeping it as is for future generations to know what is natural for our species to procreate. I don't want to dilute the terms of marriage.
It's important to know that if you vote to allow gay marriage where do you stop.
The no campaign seem to have very little to say.

I'd say you'd stop right there.

What's tricky about that?

traprunner · 14-05-2015 07:04PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

Simple solution. Cancel all religion classes in school. If people want their kids thought it then they should do it themselves or send them to Sunday school.

aloyisious · 14-05-2015 07:10PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

Ditto the Iona legal adviser, Tom Finegan.

Publish (the material) or be damned, Mr Leavy......

Mr Leavy said: "We already have material being sent into primary schools with the approval of the INTO called ‘Different Families, Same Love’.
"Among other things this advises teachers on how to teach children in Junior Infants about transsexuality and the different varieties of adult sexual desire before they even know the basic facts of life.

ronivek · 14-05-2015 07:14PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

Vote no because we don't want to have to discuss homosexuality or homosexual relationships in our classes; or at least not without claiming/implying they're inferior to heterosexual relationships. Seems legit.

Or even worse they simply don't want to have to put effort into creating new teaching materials to cater for same sex marriage; and that's sufficient reason to vote no.

Since when is it up to individual teachers to decide what should and shouldn't be taught to our children? Isn't that the role of the Department of Education?

drunkmonkey · 14-05-2015 07:15PM

K4t wrote: »

Maybe not. But actively voting No in a referendum to allow marriage between same sex couples suggests homophobia.

Maybe you think marriage should be left as it is, nothing got to do with your views on LBGT or any other group that isn't a man and a woman. There's nothing homophobic about a no vote unless you use your vote to vote no just because your homophobic.

aloyisious · 14-05-2015 07:16PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Believing marriage is between a man and a woman is not homophobic.

There's a difference between belief and the use of belief and that is where homophobic persons hide and use their wares.

VinLieger · 14-05-2015 07:24PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Believing marriage is between a man and a woman is not homophobic.

Why are you forcing your beliefs onto those who don't share them?

KingBrian2 · 14-05-2015 07:47PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Maybe you think marriage should be left as it is, nothing got to do with your views on LBGT or any other group that isn't a man and a woman. There's nothing homophobic about a no vote unless you use your vote to vote no just because your homophobic.

Denying same sex couples the opportunity to be treated with respect and common decency is homophobic. Distorting the debate about which would be better for society is surely doing that.

Santa Cruz · 14-05-2015 07:52PM

Soon it will be time for the brown trout season

Shrap · 14-05-2015 07:54PM

Tenz wrote: »

Jesus. This entire thread is like a room full of elderly deaf people shouting at each other.

No one has a clue what anyone else has said, but we're all carrying on the conversation anyway.

Make that angry old deaf people.

I'm done.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Speak up there young 'un.

I'm old and deaf.

:pac:

Yes, I like this person's thinking. I think. What did he/she say? Hungry old chef people? Moar of this :pac: There may be sense brought to this thread yet.....

BlitzKrieg · 14-05-2015 07:56PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

That article made me more angry then all the no posters and campaign leaflets put together...I am genuinely infuriated with the entire tone and attitude of that group's statement the sheer gymnastics of the word 'preferential' just elevated to one of the words I despise in public statement.

I am livid

Foxtrol · 14-05-2015 07:57PM

floggg wrote: »

You see, for me, in personally can't respect any person who believes that allowing my relationship equal recognition to theirs is a bad thing. Why would I?

I don't see myself as lesser, and u honestly can't see how a reasonable person could see how the love and happiness I share with my fiance is in any way a threat to them, their family or to society.

I don't see that as me being unreasonable - I see it as me having self esteem, self respect and dignity.

And while you talk about snide comments and put downs, you never actually focus on the statement' made to trigger those responses and whether they are worthy of respect.

We have already had the referendum commission confirm that all of the "concerns" of the No side are unfounded and without merit. And yet they knowingly continue to repeat them.

They knowing repeat claims that have been proven to be false, as well as statements that are likely to cause hurt and insult to not only lgbt people and their families, but also to single parent families, adoptive families, the families or those born through assisted reproduction etc.

And so when people continue to read and hear these comments and claims they get hurt and they get angry. I know I do. I had myself a nice little cry at work the other day after realising the depth of opposition to something so simple as my equakity and how lies and mistruths were being used to deny it to me.

In those circumstances, yes people might respond snidely. Because sometimes we are angry. Sometimes we are frustrated. Sometimes we just put on a brave face and laugh in the face of all this crap just so we don't have to admit to ourselves how much the words hurt.

And then we hear people criticise us for how we respond to the lies, the mistruths, the hurtful words and the abuse, and we get hurt some more.

Because not only are we expected to listen to all that bile, we are also been told we have to respect words and statements which contain no respect whatsoever for us. Words and statements which seek to do us harm.

And not even that we must respect them - but that some people will punish us by voting no if we don't. People who see no issue with the effect those hurtful and untruthful words and statements have on us, but only who we respond to them.

And then you realise just how ****ed up a situation it is when you have to spend your evenings and weekends going door to door begging people to vote in favour of tour equality, people who for some reason have been given the right to determine your status, position and acceptance as a matter of law - and how fickle they can be when it comes to wielding that power.

I can fully see your point of view and the world isn’t fair for most people. Many laws could be changed to make the world/country fairer and fair play for doing your part to improve your situation.

You can feel/do whatever you want, my point is that the Yes side coming across as snide, angry, or self-righteous isn’t going to change any No or undecided’s minds. I’m expecting the election to be an easy win for the Yes side but what I’ve seen creeping the social media campaign over the last week isn’t helping the cause. Saying the No side made you angry isn’t an excuse that a lot of people who are in the category you want to vote the Yes way will accept.

endacl · 14-05-2015 08:03PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

That article made me more angry then all the no posters and campaign leaflets put together...I am genuinely infuriated with the entire tone and attitude of that group's statement the sheer gymnastics of the word 'preferential' just elevated to one of the words I despise in public statement.

I am livid

Comically enough, the first reason for a no vote was that the teachers involved fear they may have to 'change their education practise'.

Sound familiar at all? Jaysus. Anything to get out of doing those Croke Park hours!

:pac:

Foxtrol · 14-05-2015 08:13PM

marienbad wrote: »

I have no problem acknowledging issues with the Yes side and I have done so many times and unequivocally without any mitigating excuses,

I have highlighted the propensity of the yes side to use the homophobic label, I have criticised at length the tearing down of no posters and it goes without saying I abhor the egg throwing incident.

But I have yet to be ashamed of any incident by the official Yes campaign , to be witness to any calculated lies and deception by the yes campaign or watch or listen to deliberate vile acts of humiliating of cruelty by the yes campaign.

Can you say the same of the No campaign ?

I gave you an honest answer and I ask the same of you .

No I can’t and I actually think the official Yes campaign has been very good.

My issue is with the growing Yes campaign bandwagoners who are doing more harm than good on social media and message boards, who go after anyone who isn’t in ‘Yes is good and No is evil’ group.

Look at the sarcastic and over the top emotive reactions to me daring to question some the Yes supporters (while at the same time agreeing the No side is bad). I can only imagine what would happen if I tried to talk up a No vote.

Not a NSA agent · 14-05-2015 08:20PM

"As teachers, our fear is that for example, a teacher who gives preferential treatment to a view of marriage as between a man and woman over a same sex marriage, will be seen to be discriminating."

Well yes, that is the kind of thing that is used as an example under discrimination in the dictionary.

CiDeRmAn · 14-05-2015 08:27PM

Why must a teacher distinguish between different kinds of marriage couples?
Isn't it easier to simply talk of two people that love each other and leave it at that?
I don't imagine there are too many situations that will demand the hitherto traditional marriage needing to be described and promoted, when self respect, safe sex and how to recognise when you are being abused or exploited are far better skills to be instilling into our teenagers.

mrsoundie · 14-05-2015 08:28PM

According to reports the Yes campaign are rolling out Stephen Fry as one of their "Big Guns", the No campaign were unavailable for comment as they are watching Dave to see if he has any weaknesses.

KingBrian2 · 14-05-2015 08:29PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

No I can’t and I actually think the official Yes campaign has been very good.

My issue is with the growing Yes campaign bandwagoners who are doing more harm than good on social media and message boards, who go after anyone who isn’t in ‘Yes is good and No is evil’ group.

Look at the sarcastic and over the top emotive reactions to me daring to question some the Yes supporters (while at the same time agreeing the No side is bad). I can only imagine what would happen if I tried to talk up a No vote.

No voters can be just as obnoxious. The no side does not hold a monopoly on self righteousness. The yes side is driven by a desire to improve the right not just of gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgenders but for all citizens. I would have thought that was clear by now. The yes side is way more diverse with a lot of opinions on a wide variety of issues but one principal stands out above all else the right for any citizen to marry regardless of whether they are same sex or not.

marienbad · 14-05-2015 08:29PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

No I can’t and I actually think the official Yes campaign has been very good.

My issue is with the growing Yes campaign bandwagoners who are doing more harm than good on social media and message boards, who go after anyone who isn’t in ‘Yes is good and No is evil’ group.

Look at the sarcastic and over the top emotive reactions to me daring to question some the Yes supporters (while at the same time agreeing the No side is bad). I can only imagine what would happen if I tried to talk up a No vote.

I agree with you they are doing more harm than good but it really is just an internet bubble and has very little effect in the real world. Look at all the ssm related threads on here and I doubt if there are more than 100 posters across all of them .

The real media for the vast majority of the nation is not twitter or facebook but the old fashioned prime time tv and radio . Some one like Ronan Mullen in 5 minutes on RTE can spin a load of stuff he knows to be untrue . And that is before we even get to the truly appalling stuff we hear on local radio .

Roll on Friday week and lets get it over one way or the another , we have not been in our best light these past few weeks .

But for those of us who are straight we can just go back as if nothing happened .Think of all those LGBT people who have to absorb what the parts of nation really thinks of them.

seamus · 14-05-2015 08:59PM

efb wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teachers-call-for-no-vote-saying-yes-would-present-challenges-for-educators-677186.html

Another one of Ronan's former Parliamentary Assistants calls for a No

Shouldn't they have been in school today?

Foxtrol · 14-05-2015 09:02PM

marienbad wrote: »

I agree with you they are doing more harm than good but it really is just an internet bubble and has very little effect in the real world. Look at all the ssm related threads on here and I doubt if there are more than 100 posters across all of them .

The real media for the vast majority of the nation is not twitter or facebook but the old fashioned prime time tv and radio . Some one like Ronan Mullen in 5 minutes on RTE can spin a load of stuff he knows to be untrue . And that is before we even get to the truly appalling stuff we hear on local radio .

Roll on Friday week and lets get it over one way or the another , we have not been in our best light these past few weeks .

But for those of us who are straight we can just go back as if nothing happened .Think of all those LGBT people who have to absorb what the parts of nation really thinks of them.

I agree that message boards will have little to do with the media but I think social media will have a big play in a positive or negative way.

I posted here after a discussion I had with a group of friends (5 males in our late twenties) about the referendum. A number raised how people they knew who were aggressively advocating a Yes vote on social media were putting them off a yes vote or bothering to vote at all. People need to understand that anyone who isn’t a sheep needs to want to vote for something, not feel peer pressured into doing it.

I see the main risk for the Yes vote not winning is voters thinking it’s a done deal and not turning out or if the youth vote isn’t high. Youth vote is the area most exposed to social media so I think supporters have to rein themselves and their friends back from turning people off.

efb · 14-05-2015 09:26PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/confused-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-marriage-referendum-1.2212840?utm_content=sf-man

Here is the Referendum Commission clarification of the muddied waters

In relation to comments on Social media on marriage equality we can't control the human emotions being conveyed by those that are hurt by the announcements and spin from the No side-by-side they probably aren't used to as much hostility as us gays that grew up in a less tolerant age.

efb · 14-05-2015 09:29PM

Anyway positive canvass tonight.

We've officially tomorrow off but I might canvass in my home village

efb · 14-05-2015 09:38PM

So the teachers group are an Iona/Catholic Comment/Opus splinter group...

gandalf · 14-05-2015 09:46PM

efb wrote: »

So the teachers group are an Iona/Catholic Comment/Opus splinter group...

Yep all these groups do lead back to Opus Dei, an organisation that flourished under Franco's fascist regime in Spain.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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