Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

Foxtrol · 14-05-2015 04:05AM

Not a NSA agent wrote: »

Abuse like people claiming your relationships are inferior or being told that if you would damage any children you raised? Or when they go out of their way to ensure a person isnt treated equal to themselves?

But yeah, Ive seen all sorts of ****, like calling a person homophobic for saying gay people are dysfunctional. 100% abuse as you say.

As I've said I had an expectation of that kind of stuff from the No side but not the hatred and disrespect of other opinions that I've seen from the Yes side.

I think the Yes side would have been much better served with staying positive and tone down on the unnecessary aggression towards anyone who isn't 100% in their camp.

(I await another torrent of how bad the No side are as I'm presuming posters haven't gotten tired of throwing blame the other way yet)

Frank Bullitt · 14-05-2015 05:10AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Would you say the same if this happened at a Yes event?

This is how one should approach the situation.

Whether yes or no, the person had nothing to offer either side.

I wouldn't jump to a conclusion about it, like Mr Quinn did.

Ozymandius2011 · 14-05-2015 07:38AM

Kevin Cross, Chair of the Referendum Commission, on Newstalk yesterday debunked some of the no sides claims. He made clear again that the amendment does not confer a right to surrogacy. The No side including Patrick Treacey yesterday insisted that the Constitutions provision of a right for the married to procreate constituted a right for same sex married couples to surrogacy - but even Iona's legal advice disagreed. Another example of the no side being a web of contradictions. Also as Geoffrey Shannon said on Claire Byrne Live, just 0-2% of adoptees are placed with same sex couples. They already have a legal right to adopt as a couple under the Children and Family Relationships Act 2015 and have always had a right to adopt as singles anyway.

ixoy · 14-05-2015 09:30AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I think the Yes side would have been much better served with staying positive and tone down on the unnecessary aggression towards anyone who isn't 100% in their camp.

I genuinely haven't seen this. I've seen Yes voters get furious at the lies from the No side but never these verbal attacks in social media.

Personally, I loathe what the No side is doing but you're absolutely right in that screaming at turn will do no good. We need to convince people and you don't do that by shouting them down.

road_high · 14-05-2015 10:02AM

ixoy wrote: »

I genuinely haven't seen this. I've seen Yes voters get furious at the lies from the No side but never these verbal attacks in social media.

Personally, I loathe what the No side is doing but you're absolutely right in that screaming at turn will do no good. We need to convince people and you don't do that by shouting them down.

People see what they want to see to suit their own agenda and/or prejudices. It's suits the No Side to (try) portray the Yes side as somehow the aggressors as they run out of straws to argue against equality for all our citizens.

RobertKK · 14-05-2015 10:02AM

K4t wrote: »

Yes, you want a person to be allowed to hold and express whatever beliefs they like, but you don't want another person to be allowed to criticise and question those beliefs....because in your view this somehow shows a lack of respect to the person (who you believe is defined by their beliefs) and infringes on their freedom of thought, expression and religion. When in fact it's the opposite, and it shows a lack of respect to a person by not allowing their beliefs to be criticised, and also infringes on the critic's freedom of expression. You really have no clue what you're talking about in relation to free expression and freedom of religion tbh and refuse to address any of the points I've made so I'm finished. Good luck to you.

When you say people who don't hold your views and hold different views as in voting No, you said these people are 'dangerous and backward'.
How is one suppose to have a proper discussion with you, if that is the starting point?
You argue you can't define a person by their beliefs, but then you attack the person for their beliefs with how you brand them. That is not discussing their beliefs, you are branding people, not their beliefs with your arguments.
A person's beliefs/motivations is a part of who they are, it is a part of their make up, it is who they are. These reside inside a person's brain, voting no doesn't make a person dangerous or backward as you claimed.
Anyone can call someone names, you can call that criticism, it is not arguing a point, we can all say you are dangerous and backward, but that is not constructive, is anyone any wiser as to why you would be dangerous and backward?
It is a statement not backed up with anything, it is just name calling people not their beliefs, as you have added no explanation.

One can say extremists in Islam are dangerous as they kill people. That Kim Jong Un in North Korea is keeping the country in a backward mode by how he tries to close off society to the outside world.
Saying people who are voting no are dangerous and backward, was said by you with no substance.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 10:25AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Maybe I just had higher expectations for the Yes side, seeing how their campaign is supposed to be about love and understanding.

I note you haven't once acknowledged any issues with the Yes supporters, just how much worse you think the No side has been.

I have seen aggression from the Yes side - ironically, I have yet to see public aggression from Gay people on the Yes side. I have seen frustration, fear it won't pass, despair, shock and hurt.

I am not saying Gay people aren't angry - most of us are beyond furious. Furious at the vitriol being spewed, furious that we have to go cap in hand to ask to be treated the same, furious that we have to grind our teeth in the gale of hate, smile and play nice being compared to child abusers, furious that some who support us lose the plot on our behalf and that is turned into yet another stick to beat us, furious at ourselves that it grieves us reading/hearing how some of our fellow citizens perceive us in every newspaper, on TV, on the radio... We know we have to keep a lid on it - that has been made abundantly clear by those who hold their votes to ransom.

No Equality for YOU because some people who believe you should be equal vented their anger and said/did nasty things. That's the level we are at in Ireland - how f*cking pathetic does that make us as a nation?

It's a funny old world when it is the 'degenerate/abnormal' ones who are generally turning the other cheek while their very existence is being demonised by (usually) so-called Christians who are fecking verbal stones and judging like each one of them had a God given right.

I do know that on May 23rd there are quite a few people I thought were friends who I will cut out of my life forever - no-one who not only considers me as less deserving of the same legal rights as them but actually votes to keep me lesser is a friend of mine.

I know that a lot of Gay people will be devastated if the No wins because to us it means the People of Ireland just don't value us or see us as equals. They can say 'I've nothing against the Gays' all they want but that is a lie - they think we don't deserve what they have.

osarusan · 14-05-2015 10:26AM

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Penn · 14-05-2015 10:27AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

That's weird, because when I cup my hands that way, the lines in my hand make a W. So I have a ****.

MrWalsh · 14-05-2015 10:29AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Mine makes a tent shape so I will be voting for camp.

marienbad · 14-05-2015 10:33AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Maybe I just had higher expectations for the Yes side, seeing how their campaign is supposed to be about love and understanding.

I note you haven't once acknowledged any issues with the Yes supporters, just how much worse you think the No side has been.

I have no problem acknowledging issues with the Yes side and I have done so many times and unequivocally without any mitigating excuses,

I have highlighted the propensity of the yes side to use the homophobic label, I have criticised at length the tearing down of no posters and it goes without saying I abhor the egg throwing incident.

But I have yet to be ashamed of any incident by the official Yes campaign , to be witness to any calculated lies and deception by the yes campaign or watch or listen to deliberate vile acts of humiliating of cruelty by the yes campaign.

Can you say the same of the No campaign ?

I gave you an honest answer and I ask the same of you .

traprunner · 14-05-2015 10:34AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I know that a lot of Gay people will be devastated if the No wins because to us it means the People of Ireland just don't value us or see us as equals. They can say 'I've nothing against the Gays' all they want but that is a lie - they think we don't deserve what they have.

If No wins just remember that there is a lot more there for your plight than there once was.

Kiwi in IE · 14-05-2015 10:36AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Wow! Well that's certainly a new angle on the subject and had made me see things from a whole new perspective. Has given me a lot to think about to be honest.

sjb25 · 14-05-2015 10:38AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Jesus reaction to this

kylith · 14-05-2015 10:39AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Firstly: Aaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!

Secondly: mine makes kind of a tree shape. I don't know what to vote for now... arbourisexuals, maybe?

floggg · 14-05-2015 10:40AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Fair play to you and everyone else canvassing doing amazing work and this is great to hear, id love to as well but my blood is too high on this that i reckon id do more harm than good

It really wouldn't. All the support we can get would be great.

The No's don't really wish to engage on the doorsteps anyway so little to get annoyed out.

If you, or any of the rest of you are free, please do try an get out.

And whatever you do, talk to your family, friends and relatives and persuade them to get out and vote yes.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 10:43AM

traprunner wrote: »

If No wins just remember that there is a lot more there for your plight than there once was.

A slap in the face is still a slap in the face.

I don't know if anyone outside the Gay Community realises the effect the hate is having on us. It's relentless.
If I was younger with less family ties to Ireland a NO vote would see me pack up and get the hell out - better that then spend your life wondering if those you thought held you in regard actually voted to support the Hate Campaign.

Lines are being drawn in the sand and now, for us, increasingly anyone who votes No is voting for Iona. It's simplistic, it's arguable but how else do people expect us to feel when it has been demonstrated time and time again that Iona and it's offshoots are lying and if No wins they will claim the 'victory'.

Riverireland · 14-05-2015 10:47AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Hahaha 7 people are going to spoil their vote. I find that highly amusing. Better than voting no for sure, but why bother to make the effort to turn up at the polling booth just to spoil your vote?

Politicians can't tell how you vote but they can see how many people vote from a particular household. They are inclined to assist voters when the need arises rather than non voters. Have person experience of this and always vote for this reason even if I don't care about the outcome. Have never spoilt a vote to date but would if I was on the fence about an issue.

aloyisious · 14-05-2015 10:47AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

What paper was that in? If it was genuinely written, and not a spoof, it makes some of the things in the bible mentioned here sound sensible.

RobertKK · 14-05-2015 10:48AM

I wish the referendum was about the state exiting marriage, strengthening civil partnership for legal stuff and giving marriage back to the people.
Where individual people could decide what is marriage to them.
If it is about equality this would have allowed true equality.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 10:50AM

floggg wrote: »

It really wouldn't. All the support we can get would be great.

The No's don't really wish to engage on the doorsteps anyway so little to get annoyed out.

If you, or any of the rest of you are free, please do try an get out.

And whatever you do, talk to your family, friends and relatives and persuade them to get out and vote yes.

I can't canvass, I can't even properly campaign. I have had to keep myself to boards and it is driving me insane.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 10:52AM

RobertKK wrote: »

I wish the referendum was about the state exiting marriage, strengthening civil partnership for legal stuff and giving marriage back to the people.
Where individual people could decide what is marriage to them.
If it is about equality this would have allowed true equality.

That is hilarious. You are the one who wants to restrict its availability if you had even the remotest belief in what you just said you'd take this opportunity to further free up marriage and then continue campaigning for further reforms afterwards.

Mickeroo · 14-05-2015 10:55AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have seen aggression from the Yes side - ironically, I have yet to see public aggression from Gay people on the Yes side. I have seen frustration, fear it won't pass, despair, shock and hurt.

I am not saying Gay people aren't angry - most of us are beyond furious. Furious at the vitriol being spewed, furious that we have to go cap in hand to ask to be treated the same, furious that we have to grind our teeth in the gale of hate, smile and play nice being compared to child abusers, furious that some who support us lose the plot on our behalf and that is turned into yet another stick to beat us, furious at ourselves that it grieves us reading/hearing how some of our fellow citizens perceive us in every newspaper, on TV, on the radio... We know we have to keep a lid on it - that has been made abundantly clear by those who hold their votes to ransom.

No Equality for YOU because some people who believe you should be equal vented their anger and said/did nasty things. That's the level we are at in Ireland - how f*cking pathetic does that make us as a nation?

It's a funny old world when it is the 'degenerate/abnormal' ones who are generally turning the other cheek while their very existence is being demonised by (usually) so-called Christians who are fecking verbal stones and judging like each one of them had a God given right.

I do know that on May 23rd there are quite a few people I thought were friends who I will cut out of my life forever - no-one who not only considers me as less deserving of the same legal rights as them but actually votes to keep me lesser is a friend of mine.

I know that a lot of Gay people will be devastated if the No wins because to us it means the People of Ireland just don't value us or see us as equals. They can say 'I've nothing against the Gays' all they want but that is a lie - they think we don't deserve what they have.

That's heartbreaking.

RobertKK · 14-05-2015 10:56AM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That is hilarious. You are the one who wants to restrict its availability if you had even the remotest belief in what you just said you'd take this opportunity to further free up marriage and then continue campaigning for further reforms afterwards.

Apart from my beliefs as I posted earlier in the thread.
I am not a supporter of heterosexual civil marriage.
Do you vote for more of what you didn't support before any referendum?

traprunner · 14-05-2015 10:58AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

A slap in the face is still a slap in the face.

I don't know if anyone outside the Gay Community realises the effect the hate is having on us. It's relentless.
If I was younger with less family ties to Ireland a NO vote would see me pack up and get the hell out - better that then spend your life wondering if those you thought held you in regard actually voted to support the Hate Campaign.

Lines are being drawn in the sand and now, for us, increasingly anyone who votes No is voting for Iona. It's simplistic, it's arguable but how else do people expect us to feel when it has been demonstrated time and time again that Iona and it's offshoots are lying and if No wins they will claim the 'victory'.

I didn't mean it like a consolidation prize but I really think this referendum has changed many peoples opinions and outlook. I'd hope that reflects to everyday interactions between straight and LGBT people.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 11:01AM

RobertKK wrote: »

Apart from my beliefs as I posted earlier in the thread.
I am not a supporter of heterosexual civil marriage.
Do you vote for more of what you didn't support before any referendum?

I vote for something that brings me closer to my ideal. So if my desire was to 'give marriage back to the people' (for whatever that means) I would take the opportunity I have been presented to extend access to marriage to more people what after all are the LGBT community only people. I wouldn't be a hypocrite and profess to be in favour of something, vote against the only measure available to me to advance my cause and then cry utterly transparent crocodile tears because 'the government are still involved in marriage'.

galljga1 · 14-05-2015 11:01AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Can't get the M shape myself.
Just as well because it stands for either Mad or Moron or both if you use both hands.

osarusan · 14-05-2015 11:02AM

aloyisious wrote: »

What paper was that in? If it was genuinely written, and not a spoof, it makes some of the things in the bible mentioned here sound sensible.

Don't know, I just saw the photo.

I'd say it probably is a spoof anyway.

iDave · 14-05-2015 11:05AM

Had a friend whinging on WhatsApp saying hes being bullied by the Yes side and been hearing and reading it a lot in general.
How weak and sensitive do you have to be to feel 'bullied' by people you don't know or never speak to. Oh people on the internet disagree with me, oh people I've never met pulled down a poster. FFS grow up.
Try being in a vilified minority your whole life and then you will know what bullying really means.

floggg · 14-05-2015 11:06AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

So for the 3rd time in a page someone has given me a sarcastic/dismissive comment and I’m not even campaigning for a No vote.

My point is that people aren’t equal and it’s perfectly understandable that some people want to discuss/debate the implications of giving legal equality to people.

I’m sure there would be plenty of people who would want to discuss the societal effects of a referendum that would give equal treatment to men in the case of family breakup. Would these people be as bad to want the debate this issue about equality?

You see, for me, in personally can't respect any person who believes that allowing my relationship equal recognition to theirs is a bad thing. Why would I?

I don't see myself as lesser, and u honestly can't see how a reasonable person could see how the love and happiness I share with my fiance is in any way a threat to them, their family or to society.

I don't see that as me being unreasonable - I see it as me having self esteem, self respect and dignity.

And while you talk about snide comments and put downs, you never actually focus on the statement' made to trigger those responses and whether they are worthy of respect.

We have already had the referendum commission confirm that all of the "concerns" of the No side are unfounded and without merit. And yet they knowingly continue to repeat them.

They knowing repeat claims that have been proven to be false, as well as statements that are likely to cause hurt and insult to not only lgbt people and their families, but also to single parent families, adoptive families, the families or those born through assisted reproduction etc.

And so when people continue to read and hear these comments and claims they get hurt and they get angry. I know I do. I had myself a nice little cry at work the other day after realising the depth of opposition to something so simple as my equakity and how lies and mistruths were being used to deny it to me.

In those circumstances, yes people might respond snidely. Because sometimes we are angry. Sometimes we are frustrated. Sometimes we just put on a brave face and laugh in the face of all this crap just so we don't have to admit to ourselves how much the words hurt.

And then we hear people criticise us for how we respond to the lies, the mistruths, the hurtful words and the abuse, and we get hurt some more.

Because not only are we expected to listen to all that bile, we are also been told we have to respect words and statements which contain no respect whatsoever for us. Words and statements which seek to do us harm.

And not even that we must respect them - but that some people will punish us by voting no if we don't. People who see no issue with the effect those hurtful and untruthful words and statements have on us, but only who we respond to them.

And then you realise just how ****ed up a situation it is when you have to spend your evenings and weekends going door to door begging people to vote in favour of tour equality, people who for some reason have been given the right to determine your status, position and acceptance as a matter of law - and how fickle they can be when it comes to wielding that power.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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