Why has the West boycotted the parade by those who saved the world from Nazism.

robindch · 14-05-2015 01:51PM

Egginacup wrote: »

John Kerry [...] Washington [...] Kerry [...] Kerry [...] Americans [...] Kerry [...] US [...] Kerry

Ah, equivocation - the first resort of a pro-Putinist - "hey, Russia might do bad things, but so what, so does Америка. Down with Америка и НАТО!"

Egginacup wrote: »

The US know the mess they've made when they orchestrated a coup d'etat in Kiev in February of last year [...]

As I was in Kiev in February of last year and spoke with a range of people on Maidan before and during the massacre concerning why they were protesting - against government and oligarchical corruption, in case you were wondering - I hope you can understand that I regard your comments on "orchestration" as offensive as they are false.

Were you on Maidan in February last year and did you speak with the people who were there? Or are you just regurgitating contemptible Kremlin propaganda?

Ты хочешь продолжать наш разговор на русском? Может быть, для вас, это легче?

robindch · 14-05-2015 02:04PM

According to the Kremlin propaganda, here's some NATO and US "orchestrated" weaponry which I photographed on the hill at Institutska Ulitsa on the morning of Tuesday, February 18th, 2014.

Institutska Ulitsa is the street in central Kiev, leading off Maidan to the south towards the parliament and presidential offices, where many Maidan protesters were murdered by high-powered rifles.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/25807/348746.JPG

Egginacup · 14-05-2015 02:10PM

gandalf wrote: »

I bet the Ukrainians wish it was. But hey if their suffering because of Russian interference makes you happy then you have some serious issues to deal with.

You know, you accuse me of straying from the point yet you post lie after lie. You keep trying to tell people that Russia has invaded East Ukraine. On and on you go like a broken record about a non-existent invasion. This discussion has been done to death but you just can't bring yourself to admit that you're either wrong or you're a liar.

You've seen the military hardware on display in Red Square and that's only the tip of the military iceberg. Yet we are into the second year of your mythical Russian invasion and that war machine can't defeat a country that is bankrupt. Your invasion must be the most unsuccessful venture in history where a country is invaded by the biggest war machine on the continent yet just stops there. Either that or the Ukrainians are not only immortal superhumans but they also have the powers to destroy hundreds of Russian tanks, truck, aircraft, and kill hundreds of thousands of Russian troops and then make all that wreckage and all those corpses vanish into thin air.

Why aren't these guys ruling the universe?

gandalf · 14-05-2015 02:15PM

Careful robindch Eggy will hit you with the "Victoria Nuland phone call" gambit next

Back to topic. The Parade was boycotted because a celebration against Nazi's was hijacked by a regime that from outward appearances wants to emulate them.

robindch · 14-05-2015 02:51PM

gandalf wrote: »

Careful robindch Eggy will hit you with the "Victoria Nuland phone call" gambit next

Am well aware of it

Fun to note that any time it comes up, the Putinistas never quite manage to point out which exact bit is the bit where Nuland says that the US is "orchestrating" the "coup".

Maybe Nuland ran out of breakfast bowls that morning and couldn't build any more of those breakfast bowl catapults I saw on Institustka.

gandalf · 14-05-2015 03:27PM

robindch wrote: »

Am well aware of it

Fun to note that any time it comes up, the Putinistas never quite manage to point out which exact bit is the bit where Nuland says that the US is "orchestrating" the "coup".

Maybe Nuland ran out of breakfast bowls that morning and couldn't build any more of those breakfast bowl catapults I saw on Institustka.

Of course the US keeps the best breakfast bowls to themselves, how will Putin address this breakfast bowl gap!!! Just watch as he wastes billions of other peoples Rubles on breakfast bowls to catch up the with deficit

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 03:28PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Last time I heard, Ireland became independent in 1922, ie a long time ago.

Just like a lot of Russian atrocities were a long time ago. That isn't the issue here.

In 1994, Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons to Russia. In return, Russia, Britain and America signed the Budapest treaty which gave assurances that they would respect Ukrainian sovereignty.

Russia are in direct breach of that treaty.

You heard wrong!

Well the US and Britain should go attack Russia then, instead of picking on small places with little defences.

Eugene Norman · 14-05-2015 03:28PM

Egginacup wrote: »

You know, you accuse me of straying from the point yet you post lie after lie. You keep trying to tell people that Russia has invaded East Ukraine. On and on you go like a broken record about a non-existent invasion. This discussion has been done to death but you just can't bring yourself to admit that you're either wrong or you're a liar.

You've seen the military hardware on display in Red Square and that's only the tip of the military iceberg. Yet we are into the second year of your mythical Russian invasion and that war machine can't defeat a country that is bankrupt. Your invasion must be the most unsuccessful venture in history where a country is invaded by the biggest war machine on the continent yet just stops there. Either that or the Ukrainians are not only immortal superhumans but they also have the powers to destroy hundreds of Russian tanks, truck, aircraft, and kill hundreds of thousands of Russian troops and then make all that wreckage and all those corpses vanish into thin air.

Why aren't these guys ruling the universe?

Or. Russia invaded part of Ukraine and stopped.

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 03:31PM

robindch wrote: »

Ah, equivocation - the first resort of a pro-Putinist - "hey, Russia might do bad things, but so what, so does Америка. Down with Америка и НАТО!"As I was in Kiev in February of last year and spoke with a range of people on Maidan before and during the massacre concerning why they were protesting - against government and oligarchical corruption, in case you were wondering - I hope you can understand that I regard your comments on "orchestration" as offensive as they are false.

Were you on Maidan in February last year and did you speak with the people who were there? Or are you just regurgitating contemptible Kremlin propaganda?

Ты хочешь продолжать наш разговор на русском? Может быть, для вас, это легче?

You are the same as Egginacup, just on a different side. That you fail to see it is quite amusing.

WakeUp · 14-05-2015 03:59PM

circadian wrote: »

I honestly do not feel China is interested in any sort of conflict. It's all about cash and resources and they are continually spending more than most in renewable energy, electric powered high speed train networks etc. Essentially China requires large resources from elsewhere to support its growth, but eventually it will be largely self reliant for energy.

In the meantime it serves them well to cosy up to Russia and keep that relationship going. China does not need to be as friendly with the west as the west needs China as much as China needs the west.

Both of these relationships are convenience for China and I seriously doubt they'll aid anyone in times of need. Chinese investment does not denote a stronger friendship, it's just their means of increasing influence and control. Look at the African nations that gain massive Chinese investment. Plenty of resources and cheap labour there, this may well be a similar case in Russia if sanctions continue.

sure eventually China may become energy self reliant or at least in large but I dont think that will be anytime soon I dont know exactly when it might happen but it wont be anytime in the next 50 years at least probably longer. the world system we live in is anarchic rules and principals are supposed to exist and they do though in practice when it suits they dont. conflict is omni present countries have goals and interests and they compete with each other the world is in a constant state of turbulence which then a lot of the time manifests itself in military warfare war being a continuation of politics some would say break down I would say the latter myself. China might not actively seek confrontation ( military? ) but they dont and cant control the actions of an entity with their own ideas, interests and behavior patterns. and if they clash China will act in the interests of China as any other nation would. we live in a multipolar world with the US/EU/Nato, Russia and China pretty much calling the shots. and it would appear the Americans have decided to outright confront both of them. I believe if it continues on this course eventually a Russian/Chinese alliance will be declared and an open confrontation with the west will begin. you raise some interesting points in your post though Im not sure I agree with the jist of what you are saying.

Former U.S. Government Official: U.S. Is ALREADY at War with China and Russia

Top economic and political experts say we're drifting towards World War 3. And see this.

We noted in March that we're already at war with Russia. Many experts agree ...

Former White House official Dr. Philippa Malmgren - former presidential adviser and member of the U.S. President's Working Group on Financial Markets - said last December that the United States is already at war with China and Russia:

I was recently at a meeting with a lot of very senior people from the defense community, and their view is that we are already in a nose-to-nose confrontation (war) with China and Russia. But these (wars) are being conducted through cyberspace rather than through traditional conventional weapons.
An advisor to the US government - Scott Borg, CEO of US Cyber Consequences Unit - says that the United States has already started launching widespread hostile cyber warfare against Russia, China and Iran.

Indeed, the U.S. has admitted that it deployed cyber-warfare against Iran's nuclear power plant.

Paul Craig Roberts – former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan, former editor of the Wall Street Journal, listed by Who’s Who in America as one of the 1,000 most influential political thinkers in the world – says that U.S. war against Russia has already begun.

Mark Galeotti - a Full Professor of Global Affairs at the Center for Global Affairs at New York University, and a prominent expert on modern Russia - says "the West and Russia are already at war".

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-13/former-us-government-official-us-already-war-china-and-russia

robindch · 14-05-2015 04:27PM

noway12345 wrote: »

You are the same as Egginacup, just on a different side.

I think that's quite an offensive comparison and suggest that you understand nothing of my position - probably since you haven't asked and instead chosen to assume.

fiachr_a · 14-05-2015 05:09PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why would this happen?

Because the West doesn't want to admit it was Russia who defeated the Nazis not them.

Fratton Fred · 14-05-2015 05:21PM

noway12345 wrote: »

You heard wrong!

Well the US and Britain should go attack Russia then, instead of picking on small places with little defences.

Nope, pretty sure Ireland is no longer part of the UK.

You seriously want Britain and America, along with France and China (the other signatories) to go to war?

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 05:26PM

robindch wrote: »

I think that's quite an offensive comparison and suggest that you understand nothing of my position - probably since you haven't asked and instead chosen to assume.

Right back at ya!

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 05:28PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Nope, pretty sure Ireland is no longer part of the UK.

You seriously want Britain and America, along with France and China (the other signatories) to go to war?

Part of Ireland is still apart of the UK.

No, I'd prefer if nobody went to war but America and Britain like to pick on the small guys. They'd sh1t themselves if Russia and China came at them.

blatantrereg · 14-05-2015 05:29PM

robindch wrote: »

Am well aware of it

Fun to note that any time it comes up, the Putinistas never quite manage to point out which exact bit is the bit where Nuland says that the US is "orchestrating" the "coup".

Maybe Nuland ran out of breakfast bowls that morning and couldn't build any more of those breakfast bowl catapults I saw on Institustka.

The weapons of cereal killers

Fratton Fred · 14-05-2015 05:40PM

noway12345 wrote: »

Part of Ireland is still apart of the UK.

The part that wants to be.

blatantrereg · 14-05-2015 05:41PM

robindch wrote: »

According to the Kremlin propaganda, here's some NATO and US "orchestrated" weaponry which I photographed on the hill at Institutska Ulitsa on the morning of Tuesday, February 18th, 2014.

Institutska Ulitsa is the street in central Kiev, leading off Maidan to the south towards the parliament and presidential offices, where many Maidan protesters were murdered by high-powered rifles.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/25807/348746.JPG

Where did they claim the catapaults were orchestrated by NATO?
I found stuff where they said they were provided by opposition MPs but not by NATO. (Not that that is any less absurd really.)

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 05:42PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The part that wants to be.

So part of Ireland is still part of the UK.

BlaasForRafa · 14-05-2015 05:43PM

noway12345 wrote: »

You are the same as Egginacup, just on a different side. That you fail to see it is quite amusing.

Robindch isn't a delusional fantasist.

noway12345 wrote: »

No, I'd prefer if nobody went to war but America and Britain like to pick on the small guys. They'd sh1t themselves if Russia and China came at them.

So that would be the Russia that invaded and occupied parts of Georgia and Ukraine and the China that invaded and occupied Tibet and is trying to bully Japan off the Senkaku islands and the Philippines off the Spratly islands?

noway12345 · 14-05-2015 05:46PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Robindch isn't a delusional fantasist.

I'm not so sure.

blatantrereg · 14-05-2015 05:49PM

noway12345 wrote: »

You heard wrong!

Well the US and Britain should go attack Russia then, instead of picking on small places with little defences.

Ireland is quite well defended - primarily by the UK. For example RAF fighters have escorted a number of Russian aircraft out of our airspace recently.

Egginacup · 14-05-2015 07:59PM

robindch wrote: »

Ah, equivocation - the first resort of a pro-Putinist - "hey, Russia might do bad things, but so what, so does Америка. Down with Америка и НАТО!"

You might stretch your mind back as far as a month or two, when Putin announced that he was ready to threaten the use of nuclear weapons during his invasion of Crimea.

Not many votes for showing up for a photo-op with somebody threatening nukes either.

I am unaware of such an announcement. Could you provide two things please:

1. A source to this announcement
2. A simple but descriptive account of the invasion of Crimea.

Egginacup · 14-05-2015 08:11PM

gandalf wrote: »

Look up the Molotov/ von Ribbentrop pact of 1939. It's called History Eggy it's really interesting :rolleyes:

Sure all the Soviet troops that poured into Poland, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and parts of Romania after the Nazi's attacked Poland in 1939 were just on holiday like the lads from Russia are the Ukraine today eh

Continue the good work comrade LOL!

It was a non-aggression pact. That is NOT an alliance. Either admit that you made a mistake in calling it an alliance, admit that you are trying to spin it as an alliance or don't engage me with lies again.

Your move Mr. "LOL". Put this issue to rest so we can move on to your other falsifications and lies or else just don't pester me again.

BlaasForRafa · 14-05-2015 08:16PM

Egginacup wrote: »

It was a non-aggression pact. That is NOT an alliance. Either admit that you made a mistake in calling it an alliance, admit that you are trying to spin it as an alliance or don't engage me with lies again.

Perhaps you are unaware of the protocol between the two nations to divide up Poland? And to divide eastern europe into spheres of influence where Russia had a free hand to take the baltic states and bessarabia from Romania?

It may not have been called an alliance but that's just terminology and quibbling over semantics just makes you look a bit silly.

gandalf · 14-05-2015 08:29PM

Egginacup wrote: »

It was a non-aggression pact. That is NOT an alliance. Either admit that you made a mistake in calling it an alliance, admit that you are trying to spin it as an alliance or don't engage me with lies again.

Your move Mr. "LOL". Put this issue to rest so we can move on to your other falsifications and lies or else just don't pester me again.

So you agree with the carve up of Poland by Hitler and his new bosom buddy Stalin in 1939.

Here look here are the new buddys who created that Polish sandwich in 1939.

Soviet+and+German+soldiers+friendly+conversation+in+the+newly+captured+Polish+city+of+Brest.+The+Invasion+of+Poland,+September+1939.jpg

Soviet+and+German+soldiers+friendly+conversation+in+the+newly+captured+Polish+city+of+Brest.+The+Invasion+of+Poland,+September+1939.jpg

search?q=russian+and+german+troops+meeting+in+poland&biw=1366&bih=634&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XfVUVYOKG8Oy7QazloLIAQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#tbm=isch&q=russian+and+german+troops+meeting+in+poland+1939&imgrc=deSybmyGWlDwXM%253A%3ByDWuP96QZYDcGM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fconservativepapers.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F11%252Fsovnazipoland.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fconservativepapers.com%252Fnews%252F2012%252F11%252F28%252Findian-communist-academia-living-off-american-tax-payers%252F%3B407%3B300

The only person engaging in lies here is you Eggy repeatedly in multiple threads.

Dick phelan · 14-05-2015 08:32PM

The Soviets were as bad as the Nazi's, Also perhaps the fact that the Soviets were at first working with the Nazi's to carve up Poland.

Elmer Blooker · 14-05-2015 09:09PM

blatantrereg wrote: »

For example RAF fighters have escorted a number of Russian aircraft out of our airspace recently.

Serious question. Do some people actually believe this stuff?
When?

Fratton Fred · 14-05-2015 09:11PM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Serious question. Do some people actually believe this stuff?
When?

Do you not read, watch or listen to any news?

gandalf · 14-05-2015 09:17PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Do you not read, watch or listen to any news?

No these lads get their news from Pravda or Sputniknews.

You should actually read Pravda, it's good for a laugh until you realise that they are actually serious. Then it becomes scary on just how bat**** crazy they actually are over there.

Why has the West boycotted the parade by those who saved the world from Nazism.

Comments