Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

traprunner · 14-05-2015 11:39AM

RobertKK wrote: »

The state will be further ensconced in the business of marriage with a yes vote.
The chances of them ever exiting it further decreased.
We are only having this referendum due to marriage being taken control by the state that we were in, in the past.
If the state has never taken control in the past, there would have been same sex marriage years ago.

The business of marriage is great for the economy and would mean new jobs for civil registrars in the HSE.

As for the rest of your post....it makes no sense at all.

sjb25 · 14-05-2015 11:41AM

Akrasia wrote: »

How many 'thanks' did their post get?

"Likes" 8 at the min on 1 post and 6 the other in fairness they are getting about the same in backlash but still

road_high · 14-05-2015 11:42AM

Riverireland wrote: »

Some very sad posts in this thread. I really hope that in the event of a no vote gay people will be able in some way to accept it and not see it as a rejection of them as people. Some people are simply not as evolved as others and almost all people have a lot of fear of any kind of change.

Prejudice is rampant in all walks of life whether it's race, religion, age, travellers or sexual orientation, even marital status. We are all subject to discrimination in one way or another. Sometimes we all have to accept that not everyone likes or approves of us. If we were all to dwell on this we would be miserable all the time.

Unfortunately that's exactly what it would be to me. A huge, deeply personal slap in the face from my fellow country men. I'd find that very hard to move on from.

MrWalsh · 14-05-2015 11:45AM

road_high wrote: »

Unfortunately that's exactly what it would be to me. A huge, deeply personal slap in the face from my fellow country men. I'd find that very hard to move on from.

Im heterosexual and I would find it hard to accept.

iDave · 14-05-2015 11:48AM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im heterosexual and I would find it hard to accept.

Yeah in the same boat tbh.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 11:50AM

road_high wrote: »

Unfortunately that's exactly what it would be to me. A huge, deeply personal slap in the face from my fellow country men. I'd find that very hard to move on from.

This.

The damage that is been done is enormous.

It's like some bizarre Japanese game show where equality is being dangled inches from our faces but we have to be tortured and abused while trying to grasp it. One angry word - one thrown egg and back we go to the beginning of the 'game'.

I thought having been out for 100 years and generally not being the kind of person who gives a flying what others think (hence the being out for 100 years and gay procreating without a permission) and living through the horror that was the 83 abortion debate I was pretty immune.

Turns out I'm not. The sheer level of never ending vilification has genuinely shocked and upset me. I really did believe Ireland had become more tolerant but now I think the hate was just lurking underground and now it again has permission to poison society.

gandalf · 14-05-2015 11:52AM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im heterosexual and I would find it hard to accept.

Yep I'm a married man and I would be very disappointed with my fellow citizens if we kept this discrimination in place.

For me personally and all those like me a yes vote doesn't change anything. It doesn't change the marriage I have to my wife, it doesn't change my relationship with my son. It doesn't lessen the legal protection that I or my spouse have under the law.

What is does is extend these benefits to a minority in this country and allow them to truly call themselves legal families and not only gives them legal protection but more importantly constitutional protection.

TheChizler · 14-05-2015 11:53AM

osarusan wrote: »

Well, I think I'll have to change my vote to No. Can't argue with this!

Ironically when I cup my hands together I see a pink triangle.

kunst nugget · 14-05-2015 11:54AM

Riverireland wrote: »

Some very sad posts in this thread. I really hope that in the event of a no vote gay people will be able in some way to accept it and not see it as a rejection of them as people. Some people are simply not as evolved as others and almost all people have a lot of fear of any kind of change.

Prejudice is rampant in all walks of life whether it's race, religion, age, travellers or sexual orientation, even marital status. We are all subject to discrimination in one way or another. Sometimes we all have to accept that not everyone likes or approves of us. If we were all to dwell on this we would be miserable all the time.

Tbf, it's very easy for the likes of you or I, who as straight people aren't directly affected by the referendum, to come out with a statement like that. I'd imagine it would be devastating for gay people to basically be told by their peers and fellow countrymen that they don't believe that they are deserving of the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts.

I could only imagine if there was, for example, a referendum for parity of rights for fathers and it wasn't passed how horrible I would find it. As a father, I would find it quite difficult to swallow that people didn't rate fathers enough to want to give them equal footing with mothers. It would cast a very dark cloud over how I'd view this country.

iDave · 14-05-2015 11:55AM

gandalf wrote: »

Yep I'm a married man and I would be very disappointed with my fellow citizens if we kept this discrimination in place.

For me personally and all those like me a yes vote doesn't change anything. It doesn't change the marriage I have to my wife, it doesn't change my relationship with my son. It doesn't lessen the legal protection that I or my spouse have under the law.

What is does is extend these benefits to a minority in this country and allow them to truly call themselves legal families and not only gives them legal protection but more importantly constitutional protection.

Getting married myself next year. There will be gay people at the wedding. Don't like the idea of getting up to make my speech knowing they are there, happy for me but knowing they cant do the same.

drunkmonkey · 14-05-2015 11:55AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It is personal.

But thanks for telling me I am engaging in 'messing up thinking' because that's not a personal comment at all at all.

You are, if you think that a no vote = hate for you. There's a persecution complex going on with the yes side which I don't feel they should be doing to themselves, it's not healthy for the mind and it's not reality.
Even if the vote goes 60/40 in your favor that means on your thinking that every 4 out of 10 people you pass in the street hates you. Where's the victory in that?

gandalf · 14-05-2015 11:55AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Ironically when I cup my hands together I see a pink triangle.

You should probably go to the doctor to get that seen to

ixoy · 14-05-2015 11:55AM

It's why I get annoyed at the claims of bullying. How dare they claim bullying by Yes voters when it's compared to the crap so many LGBT people have suffered.

Hyzepher · 14-05-2015 11:57AM

RobertKK wrote: »

The state will be further ensconced in the business of marriage with a yes vote.
The chances of them ever exiting it further decreased.
We are only having this referendum due to marriage being taken control by the state that we were in, in the past.
If the state has never taken control in the past, there would have been same sex marriage years ago.

I have a hard time reconciling your strict Catholic upbringing with your opinion that marriage should be somehow lessened

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 11:58AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You are, if you think that a no vote = hate for you. There's a persecution complex going on with the yes side which I don't feel they should be doing to themselves, it's not healthy for the mind and it's not reality.
Even if the vote goes 60/40 in your favor that means on your thinking that every 4 out of 10 people you pass in the street hates you. Where's the victory in that?

Stop telling me how to feel. :mad:

galljga1 · 14-05-2015 11:59AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Ironically when I cup my hands together I see a pink triangle.

Stop making a cnut out of your hand.

RobertKK · 14-05-2015 12:02PM

ixoy wrote: »

It's why I get annoyed at the claims of bullying. How dare they claim bullying by Yes voters when it's compared to the crap so many LGBT people have suffered.

Bullying is bullying, it is not a competition for whose bullying is worst.

Ave Sodalis · 14-05-2015 12:07PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Bullying is bullying, it is not a competition for whose bullying is worst.

Then why is there only a focus on the Yes side?

Riverireland · 14-05-2015 12:10PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Tbf, it's very easy for the likes of you or I, who as straight people aren't directly affected by the referendum, to come out with a statement like that. I'd imagine it would be devastating for gay people to basically be told by their peers and fellow countrymen that they don't believe that they are deserving of the same rights as their heterosexual counterparts.

I could only imagine if there was, for example, a referendum for parity of rights for fathers and it wasn't passed how horrible I would find it. As a father, I would find it quite difficult to swallow that people didn't rate fathers enough to want to give them equal footing with mothers. It would cast a very dark cloud over how I'd view this country.

I hear you but predjuce is something we all experience all the time. I am regularly shocked at how racist people are towards immigrants in this country and probably lots of other countries. I am white an Irish myself so it's not something directed at me personally but I can see it. We all simply have to live our lives and be grateful that we have friends and family who accept us for what we are. It just seems to be part of human nature to be judgemental, in some more than others. I'm not saying it's right but in my experience it is a fact.

kunst nugget · 14-05-2015 12:11PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You are, if you think that a no vote = hate for you. There's a persecution complex going on with the yes side which I don't feel they should be doing to themselves, it's not healthy for the mind and it's not reality.
Even if the vote goes 60/40 in your favor that means on your thinking that every 4 out of 10 people you pass in the street hates you. Where's the victory in that?

Tbf, a persecution complex is a pretty heavy component of the No side as well. Given that the Referendum Commissioner Kevin Cross has said that adoption, surrogacy and children's rights will not be affected by this and that the referendum is about extending to gay people the same privilege of access to the Constitutionally and legally protected institution of marriage that heterosexual people enjoy - do you not think it would not feel like a kick in the teeth to gay people that the majority of their countrymen and women felt they weren't deserving of that privilege. I'd imagine you wouldn't be feeling the love from your fellow man in that instance.

Duggy747 · 14-05-2015 12:15PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Ironically when I cup my hands together I see a pink triangle.

Gay Illuminati confirmed!

Kiwi in IE · 14-05-2015 12:16PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have seen aggression from the Yes side - ironically, I have yet to see public aggression from Gay people on the Yes side. I have seen frustration, fear it won't pass, despair, shock and hurt.

I am not saying Gay people aren't angry - most of us are beyond furious. Furious at the vitriol being spewed, furious that we have to go cap in hand to ask to be treated the same, furious that we have to grind our teeth in the gale of hate, smile and play nice being compared to child abusers, furious that some who support us lose the plot on our behalf and that is turned into yet another stick to beat us, furious at ourselves that it grieves us reading/hearing how some of our fellow citizens perceive us in every newspaper, on TV, on the radio... We know we have to keep a lid on it - that has been made abundantly clear by those who hold their votes to ransom.

No Equality for YOU because some people who believe you should be equal vented their anger and said/did nasty things. That's the level we are at in Ireland - how f*cking pathetic does that make us as a nation?

It's a funny old world when it is the 'degenerate/abnormal' ones who are generally turning the other cheek while their very existence is being demonised by (usually) so-called Christians who are fecking verbal stones and judging like each one of them had a God given right.

I do know that on May 23rd there are quite a few people I thought were friends who I will cut out of my life forever - no-one who not only considers me as less deserving of the same legal rights as them but actually votes to keep me lesser is a friend of mine.

I know that a lot of Gay people will be devastated if the No wins because to us it means the People of Ireland just don't value us or see us as equals. They can say 'I've nothing against the Gays' all they want but that is a lie - they think we don't deserve what they have.

I was amazed when I moved here first to find out just how conservative this country is and how powerful that conservative element of society are. Throughout the past five years we have been here I have refused to believe that the majority of Irish society are actually like that, and instead told myself that it is just a small, poisonous minority with a disproportionate media presence. However the Iona institute would not survive in my home country, I am certain of that. They would be considered crazy religious extremists and the very, very vast majority of the public and politicians, and all of the mainstream media, would simply not entertain them. They would be viewed as extremist fringe lunatics. There are obviously people who are prejudice, homophobic and religious fundamentalists, but I really just don't remember hearing about them or from them at any stage. It amazes me how they manage to portray themselves and their poisonous, divisive opinions as 'normal' or mainstream, when they are just not. Their behaviour and tactics are a Hare's breath away from being overtly incitement of hatred.

I am really hoping that on the 22nd that Ireland will prove that these groups do not represent the thinking of the majority. This is massively petty compared to the impact a no vote will have on LGBT people, but I dread having to explain a no vote to family and friends back home, who will inevitably ask how I can tolerate living in a country that is so socially backward, like they did when they heard about Savita and other related cases that have gained international attention recently. This referendum is Ireland's chance to show that it is finally ready to join the first world on social issues.

If Equal Marriage is voted in now, it's still within a reasonable timeframe to enable the country to look even progressive on the issue. Unlike other social issues such as divorce, contraception etc where the history is simply embarrassing, and don't even start me on abortion.

Of course LGBT people should have equal rights, the fact that it is even considered a reasonable question to be asking of society is completely ridiculous in my opinion. This referendum and issue in general makes me furious and I'm straight, I can't begin to imagine how you guys most affected must feel. If the country votes no, I'm not saying that I will leave, because there are a lot of factors involved in that, but I really will be questioning, and OH and I will be discussing whether this is a culture we want our son to grow up in.

If there is a no vote, I will know with absolute certainty, that we made a terrible mistake moving here and having our son grow up in Ireland.

RobertKK · 14-05-2015 12:20PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Then why is there only a focus on the Yes side?

Each side are open to reporting it.

kunst nugget · 14-05-2015 12:23PM

Riverireland wrote: »

I hear you but predjuce is something we all experience all the time. I am regularly shocked at how racist people are towards immigrants in this country and probably lots of other countries. I am white an Irish myself so it's not something directed at me personally but I can see it. We all simply have to live our lives and be grateful that we have friends and family who accept us for what we are. It just seems to be part of human nature to be judgemental, in some more than others. I'm not saying it's right but in my experience it is a fact.

But why should people just accept it?

We can start to make a difference from right now.

This referendum is as much about showing how we want to treat people in our society at present and in the future. A vote for Yes, for me, would be an indication that we are concerned enough about others in our society to be able to empathise with them and help extend rights to them even though it has no bearing on our own lives. A vote for No would tell me that this country is resistant to change and really doesn't care about what goes on in this country beyond what affects them personally.

MrWalsh · 14-05-2015 12:23PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Of course LGBT people should have equal rights, the fact that it is even considered a reasonable question to be asking of society is completely ridiculous in my opinion.

Im a bit baffled by this. I understand that we cannot change the constitution without a referendum but surely in cases where the constitution has been found to be actively discriminatory it should just be fixed without having to ask for a vote?

I feel it is a deeply flawed process that the country could vote to KEEP discrimination in the constitution and that be an acceptable legal position.

traprunner · 14-05-2015 12:23PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I am really hoping that on the 22nd that Ireland will prove that these groups do not represent the thinking of the majority.

Sadly in Ireland so many people don't think. They hear something and instead of analysing they accept and then make it their belief. If the no campaign started telling people the sky was orange and black striped with the effort they have put into their lies in this campaign I fear a huge number of people would believe them and believe it as fact.

SireOfSeth · 14-05-2015 12:24PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Of course LGBT people should have equal rights, the fact that it is even considered a reasonable question to be asking of society is completely ridiculous in my opinion. This referendum and issue in general makes me furious and I'm straight, I can't begin to imagine how you guys most affected must feel. If the country votes no, I'm not saying that I will leave, because there are a lot of factors involved in that, but I really will be questioning, and OH and I will be discussing whether this is a culture we want our son to grow up in.

If there is a no vote, I will know with absolute certainty, that we made a terrible mistake moving here and having our son grow up in Ireland.

+1

traprunner · 14-05-2015 12:25PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Im a bit baffled by this. I understand that we cannot change the constitution without a referendum but surely in cases where the constitution has been found to be actively discriminatory it should just be fixed without having to ask for a vote?

I feel it is a deeply flawed process that the country could vote to KEEP discrimination in the constitution and that be an acceptable legal position.

That should probably be a referendum. Allow change when it discriminates.

Maximus Alexander · 14-05-2015 12:26PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

If there is a no vote, I will know with absolute certainty, that we made a terrible mistake moving here and having our son grow up in Ireland.

I'm Irish born and bred. I've lived here all my life, I like a lot of things about the place, I've a decent job, all my friends and family are here. I'm also a straight man.

I'm approaching the point in life where thoughts of having kids are on the horizon. Not now, not this year, but certainly in the next few. And I genuinely have to ask myself if it's the sort of place I want to raise children? A no vote here would give me a lot more to think about.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 12:28PM

It's bittersweet funny granted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1aEFi1RAO0

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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