Public sector pay increase

bjork · 13-05-2015 12:56PM

Celticfire wrote: »

So no definition of your cover all phrase " deserve it" then?

deserve
verb de·serve \di-ˈzərv\
de·servedde·serv·ing
Definition of DESERVE

transitive verb
: to be worthy of : merit <deserves another chance>
intransitive verb
: to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital <have become recognized as they deserve — T. S. Eliot>
— de·serv·er noun
See deserve defined for English-language learners
See deserve defined for kids
Examples of DESERVE

<the team really deserved that victory after the way they played>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deserve

Celticfire · 13-05-2015 01:03PM

bjork wrote: »

deserve
verb de·serve \di-ˈzərv\
de·servedde·serv·ing
Definition of DESERVE

transitive verb
: to be worthy of : merit <deserves another chance>
intransitive verb
: to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital <have become recognized as they deserve — T. S. Eliot>
— de·serv·er noun
See deserve defined for English-language learners
See deserve defined for kids
Examples of DESERVE

<the team really deserved that victory after the way they played>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deserve

Gotcha. I'll try to put it into a sentence.

The public Sector workers held up their side of the agreement and now deserve to have their pay restored in accordance with said agreement as was promised and written into legislation by the employer , The Government.

bjork · 13-05-2015 01:07PM

Celticfire wrote: »

Gotcha. I'll try to put it into a sentence.

The public Sector workers held up their side of the agreement and now deserve to have their pay restored in accordance with said agreement as was promised and written into legislation by the employer , The Government.

Oh, you got me :rolleyes:

Can you quote and link the legislation?

Public sector workers did not deserve the wages they were being paid as it was linked to an inflated economy. >>I prefer that sentence

Tiger Mcilroy · 13-05-2015 01:11PM

They deserve a portion of the money ireland has in surplus..

0% of 0,0000,00000

knock yourselves out lads.

Celticfire · 13-05-2015 01:26PM

bjork wrote: »

Oh, you got me :rolleyes:

Can you quote and link the legislation?

Public sector workers did not deserve the wages they were being paid as it was linked to an inflated economy. >>I prefer that sentence

Wasn't me making stupid catchphrases like " deserve it" and then couldn't answer a simple question without trying to be a smartass.

FEMPI, do your own research.

bjork · 13-05-2015 01:29PM

Celticfire wrote: »

Wasn't me making stupid catchphrases like " deserve it" and then couldn't answer a simple question without trying to be a smartass.

FEMPI, do your own research.

So you want me to provide you with a definition of what "deserve" means. But you can't link the legislation you're ranting on about.

Smacks of public sector laziness,I suppose you'd want a payrise for doing the research.

Can you not ask you union rep to email it to you?

I'll just believe it doesn't exist

Celticfire · 13-05-2015 01:37PM

bjork wrote: »

So you want me to provide you with a definition of what "deserve" means. But you can't link the legislation you're ranting on about.

Smacks of public sector laziness,I suppose you'd want a payrise for doing the research.

Can you not ask you union rep to email it to you?

I'll just believe it doesn't exist

Typical Private Sector.... Want me to provide a service (link to legislation) but don't actually want to pay the cost ( answer a simple question) first .

13-05-2015 01:43PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

It really is irrelevant who deserves it. We cant afford it.

Of course we can. Money is dirt cheap for governments now and on top of that the economy is improving fast.

Its grossly unfair for public servants not to start having their pay restored back in the direction of where it should be, that should include pay increases past where it was before the cuts as public servants have been treated terribly over the last few years having their salaries slashed for no reason (remember it wasnt the fault of public servants that there was a recession) and having crazy additional taxes like the pension levy added to the deductions from their salary.

omega man · 13-05-2015 01:48PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

Of course we can. Money is dirt cheap for governments now and on top of that the economy is improving fast.

Its grossly unfair for public servants not to start having their pay restored back in the direction of where it should be, that should include pay increases past where it was before the cuts as public servants have been treated terribly over the last few years having their salaries slashed for no reason (remember it wasnt the fault of public servants that there was a recession) and having crazy additional taxes like the pension levy added to the deductions from their salary.

Surely the economic upturn is being driven by the private sector? Profitable companies in that sector can afford to start considering restoration of pay or pay increases. The rest, including the public sector, will need to sit it out for the time being.

To Elland Back · 13-05-2015 01:54PM

Sense of entitlement here is disgusting. Why do public servants (or anybody) feel that they have the right to enjoy a standing of living of their own choosing. A function has a defined rate of pay and it is not society's problem if the incumbent cannot afford the things they want for the money they get. Public Servants are employed by the Government, the Government has no money and if it had, what gives them first dibs on it???

Reduce the USC, that gives a boost to every worker who suffered in the recession and who continue to suffer today

13-05-2015 01:54PM

omega man wrote: »

Surely the economic upturn is being driven by the private sector? Profitable companies in that sector can afford to start considering restoration of pay or pay increases. The rest, including the public sector, will need to sit it out for the time being.

The public sector should never have had their salaries cut in the first place so no way should they be waiting for anything now.

bjork · 13-05-2015 02:51PM

Celticfire wrote: »

Typical Private Sector.... Want me to provide a service (link to legislation) but don't actually want to pay the cost ( answer a simple question) first .

answer a simple question Like what is the definition of "deserve it" as if we're in high infants :rolleyes:

Which you were answered but you don't even believe enough in your own stance to be able to present it

I agree with you. There is no argument to increase pay across the board.

Celticfire · 13-05-2015 03:08PM

bjork wrote: »

They could also take this opportunity to just give it to those that deserve it. It was cut for a reason.

bjork wrote: »

answer a simple question Like what is the definition of "deserve it" as if we're in high infants :rolleyes:

Which you were answered but you don't even believe enough in your own stance to be able to present it

The childish answer?

You know full well in what context you were asked to define "deserve it". Which you haven't done . I still haven't seen your all encompassing definition of how someone is going to deserve their pay restored. If anyone is playing like they are in high infants its you.

bjork · 13-05-2015 03:11PM

Celticfire wrote: »

The childish answer?

You know full well in what context you were asked to define "deserve it". Which you haven't done . I still haven't see your all encompassin definition of how someone is going to deserve their pay restored. If anyone is playing like they are in high infants its you.

Don't worry if you can't defend the payrise, lucky you have unions to do that, because your right, most public sector workers wouldn't would be able to defend the payrise for the work they do.

Some would, but they have to carry the useless ones aswell, unfortunately

Sleepy · 13-05-2015 03:15PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

The public sector should never have had their salaries cut in the first place so no way should they be waiting for anything now.

But they weren't cut. They were restored to pre-bench-marking levels!

13-05-2015 03:16PM

bjork wrote: »

Don't worry if you can't defend the payrise,

Nobody is getting a pay rise and every public sector worker deserves to have their pay restored without question.

Scrapping the pension levy would be first on my list of ways to increase take home pay as its an abomination.

evolving_doors · 13-05-2015 03:24PM

bjork wrote: »

Don't worry if you can't defend the payrise, lucky you have unions to do that, because your right, most public sector workers wouldn't would be able to defend the payrise for the work they do.

Some would, but they have to carry the useless ones aswell, unfortunately

I thought this was about pay restoration after cutbacks!! Not a pay rise.

In any event, why should public sector have to justify everything single thing they do? Is it in order to justify a pay rise.

As i said earlier, this pay related performance system was introduced into Irish Water employees contracts (their 'pay rise' had to be justified).

So.... look what happened next

Controversial-irish-water-bonus-scheme-to-be-scrapped

Suddenly 'Pay related Performance' got replaced with the word 'Bonuses'...

Does that sit well with private sector folk on here.. to be paying people in the public sector bonuses?

Jawgap · 13-05-2015 03:39PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I thought this was about pay restoration after cutbacks!! Not a pay rise.

In any event, why should public sector have to justify everything single thing they do? Is it in order to justify a pay rise.

......

I would support pay restoration but I also think the PS must justify it's actions because it's the public's money. Also the fact it's the public's money means that public servants will only ever qualify for salaries as part of their reward and remuneration packages, because the PS will never be able to offer benefits comparable to the private sector (nor should they) - people often forget that unlike the private sector the 'perquisites' in the public sector are quite limited.

Sleepy · 13-05-2015 04:12PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

Nobody is getting a pay rise and every public sector worker deserves to have their pay restored without question.

That type of rhetoric doesn't help. I'm sure you can think of PS workers you know who don't deserve half their current salary, never mind more than that.

I know people worth twice what they're being paid in the PS but the reality is, they'll never be able to paid that level while enjoying the job security and lack of accountability that the PS unions insist "every public sector worker deserves" regardless of work ethic, performance or other behaviour.

Tiger Mcilroy · 13-05-2015 04:21PM

Sleepy wrote: »

That type of rhetoric doesn't help. I'm sure you can think of PS workers you know who don't deserve half their current salary, never mind more than that.

I know people worth twice what they're being paid in the PS but the reality is, they'll never be able to paid that level while enjoying the job security and lack of accountability that the PS unions insist "every public sector worker deserves" regardless of work ethic, performance or other behaviour.

Nail on the head.

To Elland Back · 13-05-2015 04:56PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

The public sector should never have had their salaries cut in the first place so no way should they be waiting for anything now.

Why not? There is no money to pay the current wage bill, let alone the previous one and nobody could be let go? Do you think it would be fair to keep public servants in their ivory tower and have the private sector taxed even further to pay for it

I blame Brendan Howlin for all of this. As Minister for Public Service Reform he should have given the journeymen wasters in the PS a swift kick up the hole and shown them the door. Then, I might have been agreeable to the remaining hard workers being given a break

blackcard · 13-05-2015 06:22PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

I thought this was about pay restoration after cutbacks!! Not a pay rise.

In any event, why should public sector have to justify everything single thing they do? Is it in order to justify a pay rise.

As i said earlier, this pay related performance system was introduced into Irish Water employees contracts (their 'pay rise' had to be justified).

So.... look what happened next

Controversial-irish-water-bonus-scheme-to-be-scrapped

Suddenly 'Pay related Performance' got replaced with the word 'Bonuses'...

Does that sit well with private sector folk on here.. to be paying people in the public sector bonuses?

I got paid a bonus every year I worked in the Private Sector but have never been eligible for one in the Public Sector. There are useless employees in both sectors

luckyboy · 13-05-2015 06:52PM

The FE in FEMPI stands for "Financial Emergency". The pay cuts imposed on the PS were the MPI ("measures imposed in the public interest"). The legislation basically justified the cuts as being emergency measures, not permanent measures.

If I recall correctly, the Minister must certify every June 30th that there is a continuing financial emergency. If he can, the reduced pay scales for PS remain in force and lawful. This coming June 30th, he won't be able to do that (in my opinion) and hence needs to start discussions on an orderly unwinding of the FEMPI cuts.

If people feel the cuts should not be restored, blame the legislators who framed the cuts as emergency measures in the first place for an easier life. Industrial unrest would have been far greater in 08/09 if the cuts had been portrayed as permanent. You reap what you sow and the PS is entitled to look for restoration when the emergency - as defined - is over.

Just my two cents ...

evolving_doors · 13-05-2015 07:26PM

To Elland Back wrote: »

Why not? There is no money to pay the current wage bill, let alone the previous one and nobody could be let go? Do you think it would be fair to keep public servants in their ivory tower and have the private sector taxed even further to pay for it

If the Private sector are so concerned about the state of the finances and there being 'no money there' maybe those working in the Private SEctor should pony up a bit more! All I'm hearing is that the public sector need to give more when in fact they've taken a cut and agreed to increased 'productivity' but still it doesn't satiate the appetite.

To Elland Back wrote: »

I blame Brendan Howlin for all of this. As Minister for Public Service Reform he should have given the journeymen wasters in the PS a swift kick up the hole and shown them the door. Then, I might have been agreeable to the remaining hard workers being given a break

What about the Private Sector wasters who caused all this then!!!!

There's a bit of history re-writing going on here... a few days ago I heard Lucinda Creighton espousing the fact that the reason we're in this mess is because of public sector mismanagement!!! Ah hello ... bank debt!! Proberty bubble...

As far as I'm concerned it was paddy the plasterer who couldn't budget for the tough times and took out massive mortgages. If anything most public sector workers I know were prudent enough with their spending whereas my friends in the private sector wanted to go large.

We're privatising the profit making arm of the public sector (why the rush to privatise dublin bus... because it's making money!!! WTF!!)

And we've nationalised private sector debt...

Ya thanks a bunch free market economics.

jank · 14-05-2015 02:28AM

Why not take Public Sector pay rates out of the hands of the politicians and give it over to an independant body that will look at pay rates across the OECD and offer pay comparable to other countries. Pay rises should be index linked to inflation, like its done here in Australia. The again, here they can actually fire permanent PS here as well so we have a way to go on this.

SHOVELLER · 14-05-2015 02:45AM

I would wholeheartedly agree with this wage increase/restoration on the strict proviso that the whole "job for life contract" be scrapped.

Dont know about anyone else in the service but I am sick to **** of working with and for absolute wasters, the mentally ill, the stupidest humans ever and the plain incompetent.

Year after year, decade after decade this is tolerated by the cowards running departments: Human Remains.

Jawgap · 14-05-2015 05:57AM

jank wrote: »

Why not take Public Sector pay rates out of the hands of the politicians and give it over to an independant body that will look at pay rates across the OECD and offer pay comparable to other countries. Pay rises should be index linked to inflation, like its done here in Australia. The again, here they can actually fire permanent PS here as well so we have a way to go on this.

Excellent, as long as other OECD indices are also taken into account. Maybe public servants should be paid a wage that gives them a household disposable income at the OECD median?

Grayson · 14-05-2015 06:46AM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

In any event, why should public sector have to justify everything single thing they do? Is it in order to justify a pay rise.

Because we're paying for it?

I have no problem with public sector bonuses. Bring in a project under time and under cost? Sure, give that man a bonus.

I think a big problem with civil servants is that we have no idea what they do. Besides doctors, teachers etc... of course.

But your average civil servant on Grade Y, earning XX,000 per year, we really have no idea about. There's huge parts of departments that we don't even know exist.They might be doing vital work but we don't know that. All we know is that there are people in jobs for life who are on great money and that's pretty hard to accept by itself.

I'm a private sector employee and I've been made redundant three times (nearly 4 times if you include the time my contract wasn't made permanent and the company went belly up 4 months later). I've had loads of jobs.

So yeah, when I see someone with job security like a civil servant an I hear them bitching I do think it's a bit much. However if I knew what it was and why it was worth that much I might change my mind.

jank · 14-05-2015 07:48AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Excellent, as long as other OECD indices are also taken into account. Maybe public servants should be paid a wage that gives them a household disposable income at the OECD median?

Other OECD countries does not calcuate it thus. so sorry to burst your bubble. It is well known that Irish PS workers are some of the highest in the world. If anything doing it this way will mean a downward trend, or at least stagnation for some years until pay realigns.

Although, when reading this your point it moot, as Ireland ranks 18th out of 36, smack bang in the middle of disposable income.
http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/income/
So given your terms, we should not increase PS wages, at least not yet.

Roger Hassenforder · 14-05-2015 07:59AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Excellent, as long as other OECD indices are also taken into account. Maybe public servants should be paid a wage that gives them a household disposable income at the OECD median?

they are.

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/truth-about-public-sector-pay-fails-to-stack-up-1.615081

http://www.impact.ie/irish-public-service-pay-is-in-line-with-similar-eu-countries-says-impact/

Public sector pay increase

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