Why has the West boycotted the parade by those who saved the world from Nazism.

Egginacup · 13-05-2015 02:22AM

Sand wrote: »

Why were they begging for help if they won the war singlehandly? The truth is the Allies landed in June 1944 and drove east into Germany to win the war in 11 months, which really showed up what a saga the Soviets made out of fighting the Wehrmacht for 4 years.

Are you trying to say that Russia suffered 25 million dead because they couldn't fight? Is that what you are trying to say?

Reiver · 13-05-2015 02:24AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Are you trying to say that Russia suffered 25 million dead because they couldn't fight? Is that what you are trying to say?

USSR. Not Russia.

Ukrainians, Belarussians, Mongolians, Kazakhs, Georgians and dozens of other nationalities all fought in the Red Army.

obplayer · 13-05-2015 02:37AM

Cats fur sale wrote: »

As time goes by and with the aid of the internet people in the so called western world are waking up to the fact that Hitler and his National Socialism was in fact a good guy who had a clear vision. It is a pity the allies won WW2.

Um....
Are you really sure about that?

dubscottie · 13-05-2015 02:42AM

Egginacup wrote: »

The 70 anniversary of the destruction of the Third Reich was celebrated by the people who lost 25 million souls in bringing about such an eventuality this week. The Wehrmacht invaded the USSR in 1941 with 3 million crack troops and laid waste to millions of square miles and lives.
The celebrations in Moscow of the people who bore the brunt of the death and destruction of the most massive military invasion in history, and ultimately defeated it in four appalling years, was boycotted by the leaders of the countries whose freedom was assured by the defeat of the Third Reich.

Why would this happen?

Not another pro russia post..

Feck off there if you think it is so great..

Junkyard Tom · 13-05-2015 02:46AM

obplayer wrote: »

Um....
Are you really sure about that?

Its a strawman dressed up as sarcasm.

obplayer · 13-05-2015 02:53AM

Junkyard Cat wrote: »

Its a strawman dressed up as sarcasm.

Apologies.

Paramite Pie · 13-05-2015 03:54AM

gandalf wrote: »

Because those forces who fought Nazism back then are acting like them today.

Those forces are now old men, veterans. They're not responsible for the direction their country took afterwards.

silverfeather · 13-05-2015 03:58AM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Those forces are now old men, veterans. They're not responsible for the direction their country took afterwards.

Putin would use it. The consequences would outweigh the benefits. Besides Russian rape camps of men women and children were prolific post ww2.The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million.

According to historian William Hitchcock, in many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times.

2 million.

Some were children.

dubscottie · 13-05-2015 04:21AM

silverfeather wrote: »

Putin would use it. The consequences would outweigh the benefits. Besides Russian rape camps of men women and children were prolific post ww2.The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million.

According to historian William Hitchcock, in many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times.

2 million.

Some were children.

I worked with a gent whose grandfather was a "unknown Russian soldier" ..

As he said.. If the East (or DDR) was so great, why did everyone try to leave??

dubscottie · 13-05-2015 04:27AM

The other reason why the west may have boycotted the gig in Mosscow..

Of the 200,000+ Germans taking as POW's in Stalingrad.

How many came home?? 10,000? No..

less.. In the thousands, Murdered by mother Russia..

circadian · 13-05-2015 08:15AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why would this happen?

I'd say most people on here know why.

Do you?

Egginacup · 13-05-2015 12:24PM

circadian wrote: »

I'd say most people on here know why.

Do you?

I do indeed know. It's juvenile US pettiness and it's European leaders' cowardice in the face of American intimidation once again. Whatever about using sporting events like the Olympics to make adolescent political gestures, something like the 70th anniversary of the defeat of Nazism and the staggering price paid by the people hosting this ceremony should transcend the infantile schoolyard snubbery displayed by the so-called western "leaders" most of whom were not even born when the Red Army finally drove the Wehrmacht back to Berlin.

This is the kind of immaturity that passes as statesmanship nowadays in the West. Grownups indeed.

There are those on here who parrot slogans about democracy or some other feeble soundbites yet can't explain why the world's largest democracy, India, respectfully attended.

Obama and his coterie of sycophants snubbing the occasion is akin to the cool kid or prom-queen of the classroom along with his/her ass-kissing strap-hangers boycotting someone else's special occasion out of pure childish facetiousness. Well in doing so Obama and his underlings have made themselves look even more puerile and irrelevant.

Fratton Fred · 13-05-2015 12:32PM

Egginacup wrote: »

I do indeed know. It's juvenile US pettiness and it's European leaders' cowardice in the face of American intimidation once again. Whatever about using sporting events like the Olympics to make adolescent political gestures, something like the 70th anniversary of the defeat of Nazism and the staggering price paid by the people hosting this ceremony should transcend the infantile schoolyard snubbery displayed by the so-called western "leaders" most of whom were not even born when the Red Army finally drove the Wehrmacht back to Berlin.

This is the kind of immaturity that passes as statesmanship nowadays in the West. Grownups indeed.

There are those on here who parrot slogans about democracy or some other feeble soundbites yet can't explain why the world's largest democracy, India, respectfully attended.

Obama and his coterie of sycophants snubbing the occasion is akin to the cool kid or prom-queen of the classroom along with his/her ass-kissing strap-hangers boycotting someone else's special occasion out of pure childish facetiousness. Well in doing so Obama and his underlings have made themselves look even more puerile and irrelevant.

Is that why Obama keeps flying nuclear bombers around Europe, to intimidate European leaders and show them who's boss?

Oh no, that's Putin isn't it.

gandalf · 13-05-2015 01:33PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Those forces are now old men, veterans. They're not responsible for the direction their country took afterwards.

I was talking about the country and its current forces obviously.

I believe that any country that attended the parade legitimised the current illegal actions of the current Russian regime.

The ordinary Russians and those from the ex-Soviet states who fought in WW2 against Nazism are heroes. Putin and his current regimes actions are dishonouring them far more than any boycott of the parade did.

WakeUp · 13-05-2015 01:51PM

for me it wasnt relevant who didnt show up but who did. A new alliance is taking shape right before our eyes.

BEIJING — When a Chinese honor guard joins a military parade in Russia’s capital this weekend, watched by China’s President Xi Jinping, it will mark more than just a symbolic recognition of the two countries’ contributions to the Allied victory in 1945.

China’s participation also reflects an upgrade of its military ties with Russia, including joint naval exercises and a revival of arms purchases, that could complicate U.S.-led efforts to counter both nations’ expanding military activities, analysts and diplomats say.

They’ve basically come to a consensus that despite their differences over some national interests, they really face the same common enemy,” said Gilbert Rozman, an expert on China-Russia relations at Princeton University.

– From the Wall Street Journal article: China Parades Closer Ties in Moscow

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-09/isolated-china-and-russia-demonstrate-closer-relationship-joint-military-exercises?page=1

blatantrereg · 13-05-2015 02:11PM

Maybe China would be a moderating influence.

Fratton Fred · 13-05-2015 02:28PM

blatantrereg wrote: »

Maybe China would be a moderating influence.

I'm not so sure.

Two of my colleagues in China were purring about Putin last time I met them. They think he is "Hot" and his wife is a fashion icon.

gandalf · 13-05-2015 02:31PM

WakeUp wrote: »

for me it wasnt relevant who didnt show up but who did. A new alliance is taking shape right before our eyes.

Nope China is seeing a desperate economically fragile resource rich country and by being "friendly" it can get access to those resources at bargain basement prices.

In the long term I would classify China as a far bigger danger to Russia that the EU or Nato. Russias so called leaders either don't see this or are so desperate that they are ignoring it.

noway12345 · 13-05-2015 02:31PM

Chine and Russia > America and Britain

Fratton Fred · 13-05-2015 02:34PM

noway12345 wrote: »

Chine and Russia > America and Britain

Out of curiosity, have you ever posted on Boards without using the word "British" at all?

You're posts seem to be an ever increasing desperate attempt to drag Britain in to everything.

Fratton Fred · 13-05-2015 02:37PM

gandalf wrote: »

Nope China is seeing a desperate economically fragile resource rich country and by being "friendly" it can get access to those resources at bargain basement prices.

In the long term I would classify China as a far bigger danger to Russia that the EU or Nato. Russias so called leaders either don't see this or are so desperate that they are ignoring it.

You mean Putin is more interested in who he can sell his oil to than building actual diplomatic relations?

that's like saying he is running the country as his own personal business empire.

noway12345 · 13-05-2015 02:43PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Out of curiosity, have you ever posted on Boards without using the word "British" at all?

You're posts seem to be an ever increasing desperate attempt to drag Britain in to everything.

When people are talking about invading countries and so forth, it's only natural that Britain will be discussed.

gandalf · 13-05-2015 03:08PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You mean Putin is more interested in who he can sell his oil to than building actual diplomatic relations?

that's like saying he is running the country as his own personal business empire.

Well one has to wonder how a self admitted bureaucrat has amassed billions of roubles/dollars/euros etc on the basic state salary

http://uk.businessinsider.com/russias-former-largest-foreign-investor-putin-is-worth-200-billion-2015-2?r=US

Like the filthy rich I doubt very much his first priority is for the poor citizens in Russian society.

Egginacup · 13-05-2015 03:18PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Is that why Obama keeps flying nuclear bombers around Europe, to intimidate European leaders and show them who's boss?

Oh no, that's Putin isn't it.

Whatever present day disagreements or problems exist between the Obama administration/NATO and Moscow are irrelevant to a ceremony marking an occasion 70 years ago. Snubbing it is a craven slap in the face of hundreds of millions of people, the majority of whom lost a relative to the Nazi war machine.

Go ahead and dredge up any vacuous reason to stick with Obama and his crew in their bitchy little game if it makes you happy but it just highlights a galactic lack of moral fibre.

Politicians in Northern Ireland, a place where political hatred has known no bounds, have ultimately shown respect for their adversaries when professionalism and decency has been called for. When Ian Paisley's arch-nemesis, Bernadette Devlin fell pregnant out of wedlock he was quizzed on his opinion of this. He had the good grace to leave these personal issues off limits and replied "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Likewise when Peter Robinson was publicly humiliated over his wife's infidelities this too was never used as some kind of low-rent cheap dig to kick the man when he was down. Likewise again, the whole imbroglio of Gerry Adams' brother's abuse was not used by enemies who had long wanted him dead.

These are situations where strength of character shines through over cheap shots and pettiness and Obama has been found sorely wanting.

WakeUp · 13-05-2015 03:43PM

gandalf wrote: »

Nope China is seeing a desperate economically fragile resource rich country and by being "friendly" it can get access to those resources at bargain basement prices.

In the long term I would classify China as a far bigger danger to Russia that the EU or Nato. Russias so called leaders either don't see this or are so desperate that they are ignoring it.

Nato and the EU ( as things stand could change come July) are but vassals of Washington. Nato is a tool of US foreign policy in Europe and beyond when it suits . an independent EU is no threat nor danger to Russia and vice versa. to classify China as the biggest threat to Russia long term is incorrect when taking into account unfolding events and what has happened and the initiation of closer ties in all sorts of ways and fields. and to believe that the relationship is or would be completely dominated by one side ( China ) that ignores political facts and realities on the ground. they are putting past differences to one side a rapprochement is and has been taking place. though for those who refuse to either acknowledge this or see it not much can be done about that. the disaster that is US foreign policy and its affect of pushing these two countries closer together thats what is being ignored. the world order is/has changed the west is of course still relevant but no longer dominant. for years Russia and China have "allied" on numerous issues. if you believe the Russian/Chinese relationship is just about Chinese desires to pounce and obtain resources as "bargain basement prices" I cant help you there thats up to you. but it isnt.

In June, I participated in a seminar called “The Dynamic of Trilateral Relations among Russia, China, and the United States in the Context of the Ukrainian Crisis and Western Sanctions against Russia” in China itself. The participants supported the assertion—frequently repeated by Russian and Chinese leaders—that relations between Russia and China have never been friendlier. Indeed, despite the fact that U.S. imposed sanctions on Russia do not directly affect China, Beijing is keenly aware of U.S. policies directed at containing it. The United States has unequivocally stated its support for China’s opponents in a series of conflicts concerning Chinese-Japanese, Chinese-Filipino, and Chinese-Korean squabbles. In addition, the American pivot to Asia has as its primary objective to preserve the status quo in Asia and contain a rising China.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/washingtons-creation-russia-china-alliance-10843

Egginacup · 13-05-2015 04:12PM

Reiver wrote: »

I feel worse for the Poles to be honest. Caught between a rock and a hard place. And then betrayed by the Allies at the end of the war.

And plenty of Russians fought for the Axis as well. Practically a second civil war.

Are you ware that Stalin offered to place 1 million troops on the border with Germany in the Summer of 1939 to contain Hitler? The British of course refused to accept the offer (or pretended that they needed more time..either way Hitler could have been stopped before he got going). The Poles were betrayed by the West before the war.

And now you have clueless individuals on here spouting utter gibberish that Russia allied with the Nazis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html

blatantrereg · 13-05-2015 04:37PM

The USSR offered to deploy a huge military force in Poland two weeks before they invaded Poland? That was nice of them. Do you think there might have been a communist revolution in Poland just after that happened?

Elmer Blooker · 13-05-2015 05:19PM

Egginacup wrote: »

And now you have clueless individuals on here spouting utter gibberish that Russia allied with the Nazis.

No, the Soviets and the Nazis were never allies. The Molotov-Rippentrop pact was nothing more than an opportunity for the Soviets to take back territory ceded to Poland after the Polish-Soviet war in 1920.
The "west" allowed Hitler to intervene in the Spanish Civil War as it was in their interests to see the "Red" Spanish Republic crushed so basically Hitler was an ally of the west.

DarkyHughes · 13-05-2015 05:24PM

Just a little Samba wrote: »

A non-aggression pact is not an alliance. Not even close, it's a "you leave me alone, I leave you alone".

And they were forced into signing that non-aggression pact with Germany because Britain & France refused to sign a anti-fascist pact with the USSR in the first place.

gandalf · 13-05-2015 05:32PM

LOL I knew this place was rife with Putinbots but it appears they are also Stalins Cheerleaders as well

Whatever you want to call the Molotov-Rippentrop agreement it doesn't take away from the Russians actions. Stabbing a neighbouring country in the back in their hour of need. It does sound familiar doesn't it.

Back to the topic in hand. Eggy if you cannot understand why people stayed away from Vlad's Moscow Military love in last week then you really have issues

Why has the West boycotted the parade by those who saved the world from Nazism.

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