Student being questioned without the parents consent or knowledge.

the_real_gerry · 10-05-2015 01:59PM #1

Hi guys I'm here looking for information/advice about the following

Does a deputy principle have the right to question a minor for 40+minutes without the parents consent. He also questioned two other students about this and had called their parents to tell them about it before hand. Another thing was he questioned him alone away from classrooms in a room without any one else to witness it except him and my son.

He would tell my son things like "Board of education will be involved", "Do you believe you should be sanctioned and why?", asked my son if he thought of himself as witty? and when my son said yes and he then remarked with "you must be to get yourself into this situation".

Another thing is my son was doing an ICT/ECDL class which he is paying to do so can he recieve compensation for the class he missed? and he had 3 free classes that day which he could have been questioned for instead.

He didn't ask my son or me about taking him out of his class he only asked the teacher if it would be alright.
If anybody had any information or advice about this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advanced

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-05-2015 02:02PM

Maybe if your son behaved himself there would be no need for him to be removed from class and be questioned.
It's a sad state of affairs if the principal of a school needs parents consent to talk to or reprimand a student who's causing trouble

endacl · 10-05-2015 02:02PM

Your post is kinda loaded...

How old is your son? Questioned about what?

My instinct is to answer yes, but I'm guessing that's not the answer you're looking for.

Afroshack · 10-05-2015 02:04PM

the_real_gerry wrote: »

Hi guys I'm here looking for information/advice about the following

Does a deputy principle have the right to question a minor for 40+minutes without the parents consent. He also questioned two other students about this and had called their parents to tell them about it before hand. Another thing was he questioned him alone away from classrooms in a room without any one else to witness it except him and my son.

He would tell my son things like "Board of education will be involved", "Do you believe you should be sanctioned and why?", asked my son if he thought of himself as witty? and when my son said yes and he then remarked with "you must be to get yourself into this situation".

Another thing is my son was doing an ICT/ECDL class which he is paying to do so can he recieve compensation for the class he missed? and he had 3 free classes that day which he could have been questioned for instead.

He didn't ask my son or me about taking him out of his class he only asked the teacher if it would be alright.
If anybody had any information or advice about this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advanced

No he doesn't need your consent. If you son did something that warranted being asked questions then he can ask questions. Perhaps have a chat with your son about what he did rather than looking to deflect blame towards the deputy.

fieldsmedal23 · 10-05-2015 02:10PM

the_real_gerry wrote: »

Hi guys I'm here looking for information/advice about the following

Does a deputy principle have the right to question a minor for 40+minutes without the parents consent. He also questioned two other students about this and had called their parents to tell them about it before hand. Another thing was he questioned him alone away from classrooms in a room without any one else to witness it except him and my son.

Absolutely

the_real_gerry wrote: »

He would tell my son things like "Board of education will be involved", "Do you believe you should be sanctioned and why?", asked my son if he thought of himself as witty? and when my son said yes and he then remarked with "you must be to get yourself into this situation".

You have no proof of this incident. The information above is hearsay, and would not form the basis for a decision either in a court of law or a tribunal. You have no proof.

the_real_gerry wrote: »

Another thing is my son was doing an ICT/ECDL class which he is paying to do so can he recieve compensation for the class he missed? and he had 3 free classes that day which he could have been questioned for instead.

He didn't ask my son or me about taking him out of his class he only asked the teacher if it would be alright.
If anybody had any information or advice about this topic it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advanced

Without a contract stating your terms above, you have no real recourse here. Not a hope in hell you would be entitled to compensation, especially considering the fact the body you are seeking to claim from is a public body and not a private limited company, I presume?

bjork · 10-05-2015 02:21PM

Do you believe you should be sanctioned and why?",

^^Seems like a reasonable question>>What's your issue with this

asked my son if he thought of himself as witty?

and when my son said yes and he then remarked with "you must be to get yourself into this situation".

^^Or this

fieldsmedal23 · 10-05-2015 02:23PM

They can do what they like, as long as any decisions respect natural justice in line with constitutional requirements. If no sanction was imposed, and you have no proof of the incident, you haven't a leg to stand on OP.

evolving_doors · 10-05-2015 02:28PM

I spse the devil's in the detail, but id go along with the spirit of loco parentis. Would it be reasonable for a parent to question their child in such a way. Yes its true that any teacher would be treading a precarious line by being in a closed environment with a pupil. As it transpired now nothing untoward happened except for 'strong words' in trying to establish what happened in some incident (the seriousness we dont know (maybe its best not to give the details either OP)).

I appreciate that you didn't like the way your son was spoken too, but unfortunately there are incidents which need resolving asap and a worse case scenario is given. Consider a scenario where a principal let things run on for hours before acting, by that stage a lot could have happened and people could be hurt or threatened or evidence destroyed.

At the moment it would appear that you are getting all this from your son's side ( would that be correct?). I presume then that a meeting with principal/teacher involved is the next step. If thats the case then before the meeting:
1. find out the order of events from the principal's side. Don't do a to and fro with your son, just tell him that thats what the principal said and would he like to write a response.
2. Inform the principal what you would like to get out of the meeting (agree an agenda).
3. Maybe ask for someone else to chair/minute the meeting.

Thats just my view though someone else might just say to 'get over it' which I dont think would satisfy your concerns.

Tl;dr get the other side of the story.

katydid · 10-05-2015 07:55PM

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

They can do what they like, as long as any decisions respect natural justice in line with constitutional requirements. If no sanction was imposed, and you have no proof of the incident, you haven't a leg to stand on OP.

I would be concerned because of child protection issues, both from the point of view of the student and the teacher. A teacher should never be alone with a student in a closed room, in case of accusations of any kind. The teacher was acting in loco parentis, so I wouldn't have an issue with his questioning of the student, but I think it was very foolish to do it in the way he did.

seavill · 10-05-2015 08:07PM

How many times a day do we talk to a student on their own? A little chat after class, a word outside the room, what about 1 on 1 resource, what about someone doing 1 on 1 grinds, guidance counselors etc. etc. etc.

Any school I have ever been in, all offices have glass in the door for that reason, as do most classrooms. In cases like that a DP/P needs to talk to a student on their own in some instances. It is ridiculous to think that a parent would have to be phoned before someone could be spoken to, you would spend more time ringing than actually dealing with things.

From the DP point of view, to prevent a student claiming that the teacher said X,Y or Z it would be better to have someone else present, year head etc. but in reality thats not always possible.
In terms of taking him out during specific times, the DP/P has other things to do. If you don't want him taken out of class, maybe look at his behavior first (if he did something wrong that is). If he had free classes first three then the incident happened fourth class, what is the DP to do then.

Schools would not fucntion if a teacher can't be left alone with a student in reality, yes we always do our best to try to reduce any potential problems like leaving doors open etc. etc. but I can guarantee I would have anoother parent giving out if I spoke to their child about a personal matter/discipline matter with the door wide open where anyone in the corridor could hear. Its a no win really.

katydid · 10-05-2015 08:12PM

seavill wrote: »

How many times a day do we talk to a student on their own? A little chat after class, a word outside the room, what about 1 on 1 resource, what about someone doing 1 on 1 grinds, guidance counselors etc. etc. etc.

Any school I have ever been in, all offices have glass in the door for that reason, as do most classrooms. In cases like that a DP/P needs to talk to a student on their own in some instances. It is ridiculous to think that a parent would have to be phoned before someone could be spoken to, you would spend more time ringing than actually dealing with things.

From the DP point of view, to prevent a student claiming that the teacher said X,Y or Z it would be better to have someone else present, year head etc. but in reality thats not always possible.
In terms of taking him out during specific times, the DP/P has other things to do. If you don't want him taken out of class, maybe look at his behavior first (if he did something wrong that is). If he had free classes first three then the incident happened fourth class, what is the DP to do then.

Schools would not fucntion if a teacher can't be left alone with a student in reality, yes we always do our best to try to reduce any potential problems like leaving doors open etc. etc. but I can guarantee I would have anoother parent giving out if I spoke to their child about a personal matter/discipline matter with the door wide open where anyone in the corridor could hear. Its a no win really.

I agree. I just think it's something all teachers should be very aware of.

seavill · 10-05-2015 08:14PM

katydid wrote: »

I agree. I just think it's something all teachers should be very aware of.

Oh yea absolutely, like I said I have resource with 2 students, if one is out I ensure the classroom door is left open but in reality even take someone who needs to see the counselor about something personal, that is 100% of the time going to be 1 on 1 behind a closed door (but with glass)

RainyDay · 10-05-2015 08:32PM

fieldsmedal23 wrote: »

You have no proof of this incident. The information above is hearsay, and would not form the basis for a decision either in a court of law or a tribunal. You have no proof.

I presume you'd take the same harsh view of any reports that the teacher brought out the incident? 'No proof. ... hearsay....not the basis for a decision'

evolving_doors · 10-05-2015 09:13PM

Invariably the way these threads pan out is the need for more detail & surmising what really happened till the cows come home.

Suffice to say the OP has closed account so I hope they've got some perspective on the issue and can get a resolution of some sort.

Thread closed

gaiscioch · 10-05-2015 09:25PM

I'd be inclined to agree that the principal should not be in the room alone with the student, if only because they tend to have an inferior understanding of what a little rip mo dhuine is in the actual class; there should always be a teacher present who actually teaches the student in a classroom setting to prevent the principal getting won over by the frequently plámásing little rogue/frequently sympathy-seeking system-playing student. (at least in our school, it's only the misbehaving kids who are sent directly to the principal - and then only for serious misbehaving.)

Aside from that, 1) if the principal and another member of staff interviewed the one student, it could be argued that this balance of forces was unfair to the student, 2) the first one-to-one with the principal is often a genuine attempt by the most senior person in the school to understand what is going on, and see how the school's resources could be used to improve the student's behaviour (e.g. extra help in difficult subjects, a subject exemption, etc), and 3) it's wrongheaded to expect that the principal should ring every parent before they discuss a student's behaviour directly with them.

katydid · 10-05-2015 09:26PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Invariably the way these threads pan out is the need for more detail & surmising what really happened till the cows come home.

Suffice to say the OP has closed account so I hope they've got some perspective on the issue and can get a resolution of some sort.

Thread closed

It has raised some interesting issues. Why such a hurry to close it?

evolving_doors · 10-05-2015 11:34PM

Advice sought (based on hearsay/one side)
Same advice given numerous times.
Member left.
Case closed.
But feel free to start a discussion thread if there are issues that need resolving . Bare in mind the OP can no longer reply to questions.

Student being questioned without the parents consent or knowledge.

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