Public sector pay increase

Arsemageddon · 07-05-2015 02:08AM

silverfeather wrote: »

There would be more striking I would bet if they had not restored pay.

There's been feck all strikes by the public/civil service so far. This just about trying to buy votes, Bertie style.

jank · 07-05-2015 02:20AM

So that is a few hundred more million, per year every year of the budget wasted for no improvement on actual services, productivity or badly needed reforms for a more cost effective and efficient PS. Make no mistake about it, this is Labour's doing. The tax payer as per usual gets shafted.

joe swanson · 07-05-2015 04:57AM

Proper order. But its not enough. Only a full restoration of pay should be accepted.

doulikeit · 07-05-2015 05:10AM

Restoring pay is a "windfall"

ardmacha · 07-05-2015 05:30AM

Irish GDP is going to reach peak levels later this year. This being the case what is the justification for continuing emergency legislation for paycuts when there is no emergency. If debt is high or services need to be improved that is a matter for all citizens, not just those who work in the PS.

iba · 07-05-2015 06:44AM

jank wrote: »

So that is a few hundred more million, per year every year of the budget wasted for no improvement on actual services, productivity or badly needed reforms for a more cost effective and efficient PS. Make no mistake about it, this is Labour's doing. The tax payer as per usual gets shafted.

I hope that weather is nice in Australia this time of year

Do Public Servants not pay tax?

Can you substantiate your statement with facts that the PS has not improved in recent years, that productivity has not increased and is not not more cost effective and efficient?

In recent years PS have taken huge pay cuts. Have had the workforce reduced by tens of thousands. Had there work load increased immensely. And had their work week increased by two and a half hours.

tails_naf · 07-05-2015 06:53AM

iba wrote: »

I hope that weather is nice in Australia this time of year

Do Public Servants not pay tax?

Can you substantiate your statement with facts that the PS has not improved in recent years, that productivity has not increased and is not not more cost effective and efficient?

In recent years PS have taken huge pay cuts. Have had the workforce reduced by tens of thousands. Had there work load increased immensely. And had their work week increased by two and a half hours.

Can you substantiate your statement that productivity has improved?

Hospital waiting lists and people on trollies are way worse as a % than cuts to medical spending.

iba · 07-05-2015 06:58AM

tails_naf wrote: »

Can you substantiate your statement that productivity has improved?

Hospital waiting lists and people on trollies are way worse as a % than cuts to medical spending.

I did not state that 'productivity has improved?'

tails_naf · 07-05-2015 07:05AM

iba wrote: »

I did not state that 'productivity has improved?'

Well if not productivity, then what were you referring to when you said the PS has improved ?

ezra_pound · 07-05-2015 07:05AM

As has been discussed as nauseum already, the fempi PS cuts no longer stand up in law and have to be unwound. The government have two choices:
1 do nothing and wait for unions to get them all immediately reversed in one move

Or
2 cooperate with unions and slowly reverse the cuts.

Luckily they're opting for option 2.

iba · 07-05-2015 07:09AM

tails_naf wrote: »

Well if not productivity, then what were you referring to when you said the PS has improved ?

I did not say '.....PS has improved'

Cee-Jay-Cee · 07-05-2015 09:01AM

STFU!! €800 is not a feckin windfall when you factor in 52% tax/PRSI/USC, it's €8 a week, woopdee****ingdoo! My health insurance is set to rise by the same amount so I'm no better off.

SEPT 23 1989 · 07-05-2015 09:07AM

Nothing learned

seamus · 07-05-2015 09:18AM

Their pay is not being "restored" it is being "increased".

Boom_Bap · 07-05-2015 09:21AM

Public Sector pay threads merged

iba · 07-05-2015 09:29AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

STFU!! €800 is not a feckin windfall when you factor in 52% tax/PRSI/USC, it's €8 a week, woopdee****ingdoo! My health insurance is set to rise by the same amount so I'm no better off.

And I believe it is the first increase that they have had in 7 or 8 years. And is still way below what salary they were getting before all the pay cuts they took.

Larbre34 · 07-05-2015 10:19AM

ezra_pound wrote: »

As has been discussed as nauseum already, the fempi PS cuts no longer stand up in law and have to be unwound. The government have two choices:
1 do nothing and wait for unions to get them all immediately reversed in one move

Or
2 cooperate with unions and slowly reverse the cuts.

Luckily they're opting for option 2.

You assume there'll be agreement. Major scent of blood in the water now from a wounded Government, the Unions just have to remain aloof.

kippy · 07-05-2015 10:35AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

You assume there'll be agreement. Major scent of blood in the water now from a wounded Government, the Unions just have to remain aloof.

It's not in the unions interests to destabilise further this current government or indeed push for too much too soon.

Tiger Mcilroy · 07-05-2015 10:45AM

iba wrote: »

And I believe it is the first increase that they have had in 7 or 8 years. And is still way below what salary they were getting before all the pay cuts they took.

Are you including the increments that are still being paid based on an inherently flawed performance management system?

Its been admitted that there is no desire to correct this particularly sneaky practice of awarding the increments when no real improvement or KPI has been hit.

ezra_pound · 07-05-2015 10:45AM

Larbre34 wrote: »

You assume there'll be agreement. Major scent of blood in the water now from a wounded Government, the Unions just have to remain aloof.

A full reversal would cost about e2 billion. The unions know that this would be rash and could jeopardise the rare of current recovery. It's in everyone's interest that a slow reversal is agreed if at all possible.

relax carry on · 07-05-2015 11:26AM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

STFU!! €800 is not a feckin windfall when you factor in 52% tax/PRSI/USC, it's €8 a week, woopdee****ingdoo! My health insurance is set to rise by the same amount so I'm no better off.

You forgot the mandatory pension contributions.

07-05-2015 11:31AM

seamus wrote: »

Their pay is not being "restored" it is being "increased".

It's being restored, why are a few beating this silly drum of it being increased when it's only moving back in the direction of where it should be (and not being restored by anywhere near enough either). Even the government themselves signed up to a pay restoration in future when the cuts were being made so calling it a rise is just looking to stir the s*it.

not yet · 07-05-2015 11:36AM

tails_naf wrote: »

Can you substantiate your statement that productivity has improved?

Hospital waiting lists and people on trollies are way worse as a % than cuts to medical spending.

By virtue of the fact that 50,000 people have left the PS in 8 years without being replace has to lead to increased productivity...

By default alone.

not yet · 07-05-2015 11:37AM

seamus wrote: »

Their pay is not being "restored" it is being "increased".

Tripe..

bjork · 07-05-2015 11:41AM

Great, will they be more productive now?

or just same old, same old, whinge about no resources and staff shortages, whinge,

kippy · 07-05-2015 11:45AM

bjork wrote: »

Great, will they be more productive now?

or just same old, same old, whinge about no resources and staff shortages, whinge,

Lets get this straight, and I do agree with actual performance based pay reviews and raises however this argument about people having to be "more productive" to justify a pay increase is complete and utter nonsense in a lot of cases.

Salaries across the board/world have risen substantially over the years - are people more productive to justify these raises? And this is an overall question.

And again, I don't disagree portions of pay increases need to be linked to some level of performance indicator if possible but pay is not always linked to productiveness.

I'd suggest nurses in the public sector are "more productive" and indeed "Gardai" as well, possible teachers as well, if you are to measure productivity in terms of "people seen". Indeed if you are to measure productivity on the really basic scale of staff numbers to population levels ratio, I'd hazard a guess that overall productivity has improved as there are less staff doing the same or more work than there were in 2008.

bjork · 07-05-2015 11:52AM

kippy wrote: »

Lets get this straight, and I do agree with actual performance based pay reviews and raises however this argument about people having to be "more productive" to justify a pay increase is complete and utter nonsense in a lot of cases.

Salaries across the board/world have risen substantially over the years - are people more productive to justify these raises? And this is an overall question.

And again, I don't disagree portions of pay increases need to be linked to some level of performance indicator if possible but pay is not always linked to productiveness.

I'd suggest nurses in the public sector are "more productive" and indeed "Gardai" as well, possible teachers as well, if you are to measure productivity in terms of "people seen". Indeed if you are to measure productivity on the really basic scale of staff numbers to population levels ratio, I'd hazard a guess that overall productivity has improved as there are less staff doing the same or more work than there were in 2008.

So it's just the same ould whinge then, carry on

seamus · 07-05-2015 11:58AM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

It's being restored, why are a few beating this silly drum of it being increased when it's only moving back in the direction of where it should be (and not being restored by anywhere near enough either).

"Where it should be".

This is exactly the reason why "restoration" is the wrong word. It implies an entitlement to the higher pay and that the public sector were somehow wronged by the decrease.

They weren't. Public sector wages reasonably decreased in line with a recession and deflation in the economy. And now they're increasing again in line with a prospering economy and improved public finances.

A "restoration" would imply that the public sector had their wages garnished while the rest of the economy continued off on the same path.

This is a pay increase for the public sector. Be happy about it rather than thinking about it as "restoration". You haven't been wronged.

bjork · 07-05-2015 12:01PM

What is the definition of a payrise?

An increment is not a payrise
"restoring" pay is not a payrise

What is a payrise?

kippy · 07-05-2015 12:02PM

bjork wrote: »

So it's just the same ould whinge then, carry on

Avoid the points made.

Not going to engage with you again.

Public sector pay increase

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