The power of empathy

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 08:32AM #1

Been thinking a bit about empathy this morning.

It's something I think usually comes very natural to me, so I probably haven't ever thought about it all that much.

But I see some people who seem to connect really easily and really well with others, and be able to empathise with them, and some people who seem completely unable / unwilling to do so.

Years ago I used to think that I had to experience what a person had experienced in order to empathise with them, and then over the years I realised how wrong I was .

It can obviously be hard to empathise, as it can involve connecting with someone else's pain but I find it interesting that some people empathise naturally with others, yet some are very different and they don't seem to empathise with others at all. While it may be more likely that if you've experienced a lot of 'stuff' in your own life, you may be more likely able to connect with and empathise with others, it's not even necessarily completely driven by this.

The complexities behind most situations are potentially massive, yet so many go straight into seeing it black and white like, and judging the situation in some way, rather than focusing on the person, and seeing it from their perspective and empathising with them.

I think a lot of people think you need to agree with a person / their viewpoints to empathise with them, but I don't think it's the case at all.

So, what about you? Do you empathise naturally with others? Does it take an effort? Is it something you ever really think about?
Do you maybe find it easier to empathise in some situations? Does offline vs online make a difference for you, or perhaps do you even find it more difficult to empathise with strangers?

Excuse my monday morning rambles if nonsense-like, and yeah I know I'll probably get plenty of silliness back in response

By the way, there's a fab little video I love on the subject, and I love the reminder that it's not even about what you say, and that sometimes it's even better to say you don't know what to say to the person, but that you're there for them, you care, etc...

Cee-Jay-Cee · 04-05-2015 08:44AM

Ok.

Saralee4 · 04-05-2015 08:49AM

i think i do empathise with people, sometimes too much. Sometimes i would find it hard to be mad at someone who was not very nice to me. Sometimes i worry when i hear something bad happened to someone even when they are guilty of something. Online im not sure i am the same.

I think it is partly due to the empathy we are shown as children. I can see my toddler daughter learning to empathise with people. Shes always very concerned if someone hurts themselves partially i think because we comfort her when she is falls or hurts herself. She gets upset if dora gets lost or if peppa pig is sick and needs the doctor. I think it is something that if you are not given it from a young age enough or properly that you might not be able to understand or have difficulty with as you get older.

Ive heard alot said about boys when they are younger and the effect of being told not to cry can have on them. I suppose if they are upset and someone is saying 'you should not be upset because you are a boy' really you are showing them that you are not relating to them when they cry because 'thats not what boys do'. I suppose you are telling them that you do not understand them when they express emotions that way. That would have a big impact on how they relate to others later in life i would imagine.

JRant · 04-05-2015 08:55AM

I feel your pain OP

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 08:55AM

Saralee4 wrote: »

I think it is partly due to the empathy we are shown as children. I can see my toddler daughter learning to empathise with people. Shes always very concerned if someone hurts themselves partially i think because we comfort her when she is falls or hurts herself. She gets upset if dora gets lost or if peppa pig is sick and needs the doctor.

Might sound silly, but that really warmed my heart hearing that

I think it is something that if you are not given it from a young age enough or properly that you might not be able to understand or have difficulty with as you get older.

I'm glad you say that 'might not' be able to understand / have difficulty with it when older, rather than 'won't. For me, I'm not sure I was taught it very much, as I came from an extremely neglected background, and everything was shoved under the carpet also, so there was a strong sense of invalidation of feelings, and that we weren't supposed to talk about stuff...

yet now I'm the opposite in that I think it's important for people's feelings to be recognised and validated for what they are, and that people are able to talk about their feelings where needed, and I think I have always been able to empathise with others on some level, but your comment gives me some food for thought, and I'm sure that it took me years to get to whatever point I am at right now.

Ive heard alot said about boys when they are younger and the effect of being told not to cry can have on them. I suppose if they are upset and someone is saying 'you should not be upset because you are a boy' really you are showing them that you are not relating to them when they cry because 'thats not what boys do'. I suppose you are telling them that you do not understand them when they express emotions that way. That would have a big impact on how they relate to others later in life i would imagine.

This is a really good point. I work in suicide prevention and it's well recognised that this attitude in childhood towards boys plays some part in the much higher rate of suicide in men, and men themselves generally say they are much less likely to talk about their feelings / reach out for emotional help when needed... but I hope that this is changing little by little, although it's no doubt a slow and very long-term process.

SEPT 23 1989 · 04-05-2015 09:07AM

Too hungover to be readin' all that

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 09:18AM

Saralee4 wrote: »

i think i do empathise with people, sometimes too much. Sometimes i would find it hard to be mad at someone who was not very nice to me. Sometimes i worry when i hear something bad happened to someone even when they are guilty of something. Online im not sure i am the same.

I think it is partly due to the empathy we are shown as children. I can see my toddler daughter learning to empathise with people. Shes always very concerned if someone hurts themselves partially i think because we comfort her when she is falls or hurts herself. She gets upset if dora gets lost or if peppa pig is sick and needs the doctor. I think it is something that if you are not given it from a young age enough or properly that you might not be able to understand or have difficulty with as you get older.

Ive heard alot said about boys when they are younger and the effect of being told not to cry can have on them. I suppose if they are upset and someone is saying 'you should not be upset because you are a boy' really you are showing them that you are not relating to them when they cry because 'thats not what boys do'. I suppose you are telling them that you do not understand them when they express emotions that way. That would have a big impact on how they relate to others later in life i would imagine.

A lot of studies [see William Pollack of Harvard] have been done on boys and even in early infancy mothers ignore negative feelings expressed, it's so socially unconcious to soothe the girl and leave to boy to regulate on his own.

There is a double bind because the world is not very kind to emotive whingy men and they spend most of their lives proving they are not women by "sucking it up."

You know those energia ads that are supposed to be funny? Where they outsource dad and in another one they send one of the twins out? My boy cries when he sees that ad and wants me to write a letter in to complain about how mean it is. He also hates those home videos and says it's not nice to laugh at other people getting hurt. I have a long list of letters to write on behalf of my 7 year old.

04-05-2015 09:22AM

If I was to pick my best trait, it would probably be empathy. Over the course of my life I've experienced so much sadness and upset. I came from a very poor family. People my age who lived near me are dead, in prison, or destroyed by drugs. I know what it's like to lose everything.

Long before that though, my parents had it tough, they went through really horrible times, as children, and as adults. So they brought me up to respect others and to treat everyone with decency.

I think empathy can be taught. I think you can sit your kids down and ask them to think about how something would make them feel, and I think it's a parent's duty to do so.

My view on it is that if I can make someone's day a little better then I should do that, and I should avoid wherever possible, making someone's day worse. There are of course some people who are just absolutely horrible bastards, and they've had an affect of my life too, but I find they're few and far between, and if you really take the time to look at someone closely, most people aren't bad deep down, they just may not deal with their hardships as well as others can.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

My view on it is that if I can make someone's day a little better then I should do that, and I should avoid wherever possible, making someone's day worse. .

I love this, and wish more people could be a little like that.

I think that we forget quite what a difference we can make in people's lives with even the tiniest things and particularly by just showing some humanity and compassion towards others, but equally we can probably very easily forget what harm we can do with dismissive, uncaring responses also....

But it's the words 'a little' better, that really work for me. We don't have to do spectacular amazing wonderful things in people's lives to make a difference, but if more people generally did even focused on making others day even 'a little' better, than that becomes something much bigger.

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 09:27AM

whatismyname wrote: »

I love this, and wish more people could be a little like that.

I think that we forget quite what a difference we can make in people's lives with even the tiniest things and particularly by just showing some humanity and compassion towards others, but equally we can probably very easily forget what harm we can do with dismissive, uncaring responses also....

But it's the words 'a little' better, that really work for me. We don't have to do spectacular amazing wonderful things in people's lives to make a difference, but if more people generally did even focused on making others day even 'a little' better, than that becomes something much bigger.

THing is a lot of people dont have compassion for themselves so they are hardened and the glass wall then exists between them and others.

Menas · 04-05-2015 09:29AM

A friend of mine would be the kindest soul you could meet. He could read you from a mile off and go out of his way to make your feel better. He is an old hippy who cares about nothing more than others, and the earth we live on.

But his son has a strange condition where his son has very little empathy. He son just cannot relate to other peoples feelings. He has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). So his son has trouble forming any relationships and is miserable as a result. He just comes across as odd to people. He desperately wants to be normal and is trying hard to 'learn' empathy...

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:29AM

Also, I love the comments about teaching your children empathy.

Because of having been given a really horrific, traumatic childhood, I have this belief that, for me, I shouldn't become a mother until I'm in the best place emotionally to be the best mother I can to my child.

What I love though is that several friends have commented that they think I'd make a great mother - some having seen my interactions with children, and a couple having just said it from what they know of me as a person. But I think because of my own background it means so much to me when people say this, and fills me with a lot of hope of breaking that cycle, and that I can be not just a mum, but a really good one.

I love hearing parents talking about consciously teaching their children things like empathy, and am really hopeful that I can do the same if / when the time comes.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:31AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

THing is a lot of people dont have compassion for themselves so they are hardened and the glass wall then exists between them and others.

Yep, that's a good point.

I know for me I think I have a lot of compassion for others, but self-compassion is something I'm actively working on.

I don't think in my case it has affected how I relate to others, but could definitely benefit from being a bit more compassionate towards self, as I suspect many could.

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 09:37AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Yep, that's a good point.

I know for me I think I have a lot of compassion for others, but self-compassion is something I'm actively working on.

I don't think in my case it has affected how I relate to others, but could definitely benefit from being a bit more compassionate towards self, as I suspect many could.

It's like when you meet someone who has been through hardship and they tell others 'sure didn't we all go through that."

Well, making it common place doesn't make it feel any better.

04-05-2015 09:38AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

THing is a lot of people dont have compassion for themselves so they are hardened and the glass wall then exists between them and others.

Which is exactly why we need empathy! To realise that if someone is cold and seemingly unfriendly; there's a good chance that there are reasons for that. So if the people who have it in them to smile or say good morning to those who may be feeling like that, it might actually make them - even momentarily - feel good about themselves.

And I'm not a smushy slushy love is all around us type. I'm well bloody able to stand up for myself and I won't ever be used as a doormat, but I'll give people the benefit of doubt where others mightn't.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:38AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's like when you meet someone who has been through hardship and they tell others 'sure didn't we all go through that."

Well, making it common place doesn't make it feel any better.

Yep, and we probably didn't all go through that, and certainly not in the exact same way... and it's not even about specifically what they went through or whether other people also did, but about how it feels for the person...

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Which is exactly why we need empathy! To realise that if someone is cold and seemingly unfriendly; there's a good chance that there are reasons for that. So if the people who have it in them to smile or say good morning to those who may be feeling like that, it might actually make them - even momentarily - feel good about themselves.

And I'm not a smushy slushy love is all around us type. I'm well bloody able to stand up for myself and I won't ever be used as a doormat, but I'll give people the benefit of doubt where others mightn't.

Yep, think that's part of what I mean about people quick to make assumptions / judge etc...

we never know what it feels like inside a person's head, or what their potentially complex reasons behind things are, so probably best to remain as open-minded as possible... for every one of us, our past experiences will have hugely shaped who we are...

some for the better, some for the worse... but we really don't know what lies behind things for people...

and that little smile or good morning could make an actual difference in their day... the humanity behind it and that someone cares enough to do so..

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 09:50AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Yep, think that's part of what I mean about people quick to make assumptions / judge etc...

we never know what it feels like inside a person's head, or what their potentially complex reasons behind things are, so probably best to remain as open-minded as possible... for every one of us, our past experiences will have hugely shaped who we are...

some for the better, some for the worse... but we really don't know what lies behind things for people...

and that little smile or good morning could make an actual difference in their day... the humanity behind it and that someone cares enough to do so..

This is very easy to do, at least for me, with people I don't have to deal with long term. I can very easily drop all the assumptions with strangers, because we honestly never know what is going on with someone in their lives.

But the challenge is for me, to have empathy for those who have treated me badly as a result of their lack of empathy for me, Im talking family, in laws, etc here...where you can't always just brush it off and its tied in knots with history and possibility. Then it becomes far more complicated.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:53AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

It's like when you meet someone who has been through hardship and they tell others 'sure didn't we all go through that."

Well, making it common place doesn't make it feel any better.

Just thinking, on the subject of making it common place... couple of months back, I had a new-ish friend who I was in the pub with. Few drinks had been had and my judgement maybe wasn't what it usually is.

Something came up about childhoods and pasts or something, and I said that I'd had quite a tough time of it when younger.

I definitely made an error of judgement when even saying that much, as their immediate response was 'we've all had tough times'.

I do believe and agree with this, or at least most of us have... but when someone shares something without asking some open questions and giving them the space to share, you don't actually really know what it is they're referring to / how bad it was, and was it something that is just 'yeah, we've all experienced some tough stuff', or maybe it could actually be much worse.

But even with either scenario, by giving a response like 'we've all had tough times', I think people mean well, and maybe even sometimes mean it in a 'you're not alone' sense, but they're much more likely to be just dismissing them and shutting them down to saying anything more.

I asked him what he was saying by we've all had tough times, and he said 'I'm just trying to find some common ground', but for me, I didn't understand how you could be trying to find some common ground when you didn't know what you're trying to find common ground with.

A part of me wanted to say 'Really, you're trying to find some common ground with xxx?' just to give him some food for thought. But thankfully despite a few drinks in me, I knew that was an unsafe thing to do.

But the thing was, I had no way of knowing what he had experienced. I go about and smile and try hard at life, and am outgoing and bubbly and most people would have no idea of the things I've experienced. So who's to say that that's not the case with him, and he hasn't also experienced it just as bad? So maybe there was some common ground between me and him. But for most people, in my case, based on the reactions I've had when I've properly shared with people, it's seemed that a lot of my experiences go beyond 'we've all experienced painful stuff', but we can't ever know what a person's experienced, so how can we just find 'common ground' when we've no idea what is even being spoken of.

But it's not a competition, it's not even all that relevant necessarily about whether other people have experienced similar, but about someone sharing something difficult with you, and your response not being something that is essentially dismissing what they are sharing...

I think that most people do mean well, though, no matter what their responses are, and are often also sometimes quite naive in some ways.

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 09:55AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Just thinking, on the subject of making it common place... couple of months back, I had a new-ish friend who I was in the pub with. Few drinks had been had and my judgement maybe wasn't what it usually is.

Something came up about childhoods and pasts or something, and I said that I'd had quite a tough time of it when younger.

I definitely made an error of judgement when even saying that much, as their immediate response was 'we've all had tough times'.

I do believe and agree with this, or at least most of us have... but when someone shares something without asking some open questions and giving them the space to share, you don't actually really know what it is they're referring to / how bad it was, and was it something that is just 'yeah, we've all experienced some tough stuff', or maybe it could actually be much worse.

But even with either scenario, by giving a response like 'we've all had tough times', I think people mean well, and maybe even sometimes mean it in a 'you're not alone' sense, but they're much more likely to be just dismissing them and shutting them down to saying anything more.

I asked him what he was saying by we've all had tough times, and he said 'I'm just trying to find some common ground', but for me, I didn't understand how you could be trying to find some common ground when you didn't know what you're trying to find common ground with.

A part of me wanted to say 'Really, you're trying to find some common ground with child neglect, abuse, child pornography, alcoholism, bullying, bereavement, family breakdown, mental illness, self-harm, suicide attempts etc etc...?' just to give him some food for thought. But thankfully despite a few drinks in me, I knew that was an unsafe thing to do.

But the thing was, I had no way of knowing what he had experienced. I go about and smile and try hard at life, and am outgoing and bubbly and most people would have no idea of the things I've experienced. So who's to say that that's not the case with him, and he hasn't also experienced it just as bad? So maybe there was some common ground between me and him. But for most people, in my case, based on the reactions I've had when I've properly shared with people, it's seemed that a lot of my experiences go beyond 'we've all experienced painful stuff', but we can't ever know what a person's experienced, so how can we just find 'common ground' when we've no idea what is even being spoken of.

But it's not a competition, it's not even all that relevant necessarily about whether other people have experienced similar, but about someone sharing something difficult with you, and your response not being something that is essentially dismissing what they are sharing...

I think that most people do mean well, though, no matter what their responses are, and are often also sometimes quite naive in some ways.

Ive learned the hard way, you need to be careful whom you choose to share things with. Some people really don't give a bollox. Some people can't face their own hurt, and for some people it suits them not to feel for you.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:56AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

But the challenge is for me, to have empathy for those who have treated me badly as a result of their lack of empathy for me, Im talking family, in laws, etc here...where you can't always just brush it off and its tied in knots with history and possibility. Then it becomes far more complicated.

Yep, very, very much so.

Especially as you say when it's tied in knots with history etc... I try to see their perspective with other family members in particular, and see what may be lying behind it, but when my own pain, particularly that which thy have caused me, is tied up in it, it's next to impossible at times.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 09:57AM

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ive learned the hard way, you need to be careful whom you choose to share things with. Some people really don't give a bollox. Some people can't face their own hurt, and for some people it suits them not to feel for you.

Yep, I think in that case it was almost like a temporary lapse of judgement, probably cos of drink and banter and feeling comfortable with the people I was with.

But on the whole I think I'm very careful who I share things with. I am relatively open about stuff, where it's relevant at least, but have found that on the whole I've seem to become quite good at judging who it is ok to share with.

I'm not sure that was always the case, and I try to only share if there is a purpose to be doing so, rather than just sharing for the sake of it.

zeffabelli · 04-05-2015 10:01AM

whatismyname wrote: »

Yep, I think in that case it was almost like a temporary lapse of judgement, probably cos of drink and banter and feeling comfortable with the people I was with.

But on the whole I think I'm very careful who I share things with. I am relatively open about stuff, where it's relevant at least, but have found that on the whole I've seem to become quite good at judging who it is ok to share with.

I'm not sure that was always the case, and I try to only share if there is a purpose to be doing so, rather than just sharing for the sake of it.

There are different levels of empathy also, cognitive, emotional, and compassionate.

I know people who can have cognitive empathy, think con man or womaniser, but no compassion, so they can understand where you are coming from but also exploit it.

Cold War Kid · 04-05-2015 03:14PM

On the internet it seems fashionable to lack empathy - "man up" etc. That's pretty discouraging, seeing as the internet is such a large part of life now. The internet IS real life. It's no longer "the other". People who say the likes of "It's only the internet" are being very dishonest.
People born in the 90s don't know anything but the internet - I do wonder how the "Man up" aspect of the internet will shape them.

whatismyname · 04-05-2015 03:16PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

The internet IS real life. It's no longer "the other".

Yep. And this is a seperate point really, but I deliberately say 'online vs offline' as opposed to 'online vs real life', as online is pretty real IMHO.

eviltwin · 04-05-2015 03:20PM

A little empathy goes a long way but it's hard to come by at times
I find people are more judgemental these days. Maybe its an age thing. With my own struggles in life having someone who emphasised really helped so I've always tried to be the same but I think it's a quality you either have or you don't.

AlmightyCushion · 04-05-2015 03:28PM

I'm not great with empathising with others. It's especially annoying when you consider that at the end of terminator 2, Arnie is able to empathise with John Connor about Arnie having to self terminate. How the hell is an emotionless, killer robot from the future more human than I am???

ScumLord · 04-05-2015 03:29PM

Empathy is one of the most important adaptations/tools of the human brain. It allows us to build a virtual map of other creatures mind, it's helped us get on as social creatures but I'd say it plays a part in making us so good at hunting. We can literally think like our prey.

The vast majority of humans are highly empathetic (bar psychopaths and so on) but we're creatures that can manipulate the mental maps our empathy tool helps us generate. So just because you can empathise with someone doesn't mean you'll make the logical decision to take away whatever is making them feel bad. Sometimes we can empathise with someone suffering, but if we hate the person enough that piece of information our empathetic brain gives will give us satisfaction because we know they're suffering at a level we think appropriate.

Empathy is just another tool that the human brain uses, you can't depend on it entirely, you have to combine it with logic and your brains predictions to come up with a rational response. Sometimes people deserve whatever is coming to them, and as much as a part of your brain knows what they're going through must be horrible, another part of the brain will tell you it's what they deserve and log how horrible the punishment was warning you not to do whatever it was that got that other person in that position.

take everything · 04-05-2015 03:54PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

THing is a lot of people dont have compassion for themselves so they are hardened and the glass wall then exists between them and others.

I think this important. And a lot of people are cut off from their own true feelings and this sets up difficulty in dealings with others feelings.

Saralee4 · 04-05-2015 06:24PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Empathy is just another tool that the human brain uses, you can't depend on it entirely, you have to combine it with logic and your brains predictions to come up with a rational response. Sometimes people deserve whatever is coming to them, and as much as a part of your brain knows what they're going through must be horrible, another part of the brain will tell you it's what they deserve and log how horrible the punishment was warning you not to do whatever it was that got that other person in that position.

Yea that's a good point I think. It is great to have empathy for people but you need to know how to use it properly.

For example, you might be too empathetic and not push your child or loved one to do something that would be good for them because you can sense their fear and you want to help take that fear away or you could have a relationship with someone who lacks empathy and someone with too much. The person with too much will probably end up sacrificing a lot for someone who is never going to be able to show them the same back and may be capable of hurting them.

ToddyDoody · 04-05-2015 06:33PM

whatismyname wrote: »

So, what about you? Do you empathise naturally with others? Does it take an effort? Is it something you ever really think about?
Do you maybe find it easier to empathise in some situations? Does offline vs online make a difference for you, or perhaps do you even find it more difficult to empathise with strangers?

The nature vs. nurture debate comes in here a bit I think.

The personality trait of agreeableness would incorporate someone's general level of empathy, with high scorers finding it easier to empathize and low scorers to be able to do so less easily.

Another trait, openness, impacts it a little too, with high scorers better able to see things from another perspective than low scorers.

I score fairly lowly on agreeableness but fairly highly on openness. I wouldn't be much much of a heart person (more of a head person)

Though I am actually quite sensitive thanks to the high level of openness?

The power of empathy

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