Cork Airport - Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 01:49PM #1

Keeping the thread title general so that the topic is broad. I questioned the closing of the last thread and didn't get a satisfactory answer so I've decided to open a new one.

It is no secret that the airport is withering because of huge unnecessary debt that was supposed to have been forgiven and rerouting of important flights to seemingly business oriented destinations. It's my suspicion that the DAA and the government are in cahoots about this, trying to deter any new business in Cork to retain business in Dublin and encourage more business to the West. This may serve to improve the West which I don't begrudge, however, it should not and cannot be done to the detriment of another region.

In the same vein as the Save Cork Airport Facebook page (which I am not affiliated with), what can be done about this? As a Cork person living in another European city which is roughly the same population wise, but with a functioning airport I can't understand what the reasoning is. There is enough business for the whole bl**dy country, major hubs need to work together and not against eachother. Dublin is basically at capacity and the rest of the country is empty. Hospitals, schools etc etc are being shut down everywhere and centralised because there are simply not enough people.

I firmly believe that the situation with the airport is nothing but a symptom of a much larger problem. What can be done in order to connect Cork with Europe and furthermore, the rest of the world? Many multinational companies deem Cork a fit place to do business, why are the Government allowing the DAA to block further development? There is a petition here for months now, why is it not even at 3000 signatures when the Facebook page has almost 25,000 likes?

Mod Note: I have been asked to reopen this thread as a result of the recent news about Aer Lingus. I reopen it reluctantly, as I expect to have to deal with spats again and people with their own agendas pushing other airports etc. Let's be clear, this thread is about CORK AIRPORT and the future of CORK AIRPORT and nothing else so, please, if you want to discuss other airports then go somewhere else. I'll be watching this thread closely. Bans which were given out originally to some posters still apply so please do not post here again unless you want a complete forum ban (you know who you are). Now, let's play nice everybody.

two wheels good · 27-04-2015 05:34PM

I went to read the petition and found a pretty photo of wild garlic and a caption saying "Save Cork Airport".

I share your concern but frankly, an online petition or facebook likes will do little to prod the politicians into action.

Instead why not email your TDs or councillors and demand some action.
I wish I could think some specific action to demand. Maybe other posters could suggest actions - that are permitted under EU competition law.

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 05:48PM

two wheels good wrote: »

I went to read the petition and found a pretty photo of wild garlic and a caption saying "Save Cork Airport".

I share your concern but frankly, an online petition or facebook likes will do little to prod the politicians into action.

Instead why not email your TDs or councillors and demand some action.
I wish I could think some specific action to demand. Maybe other posters could suggest actions - that are permitted under EU competition law.

Au contraire, there has been a lot more movement in terms of meetings and plans that correlate with the growth of the Facebook page. This momentum has to continue. Never underestimate the power of viral media. I have blitzed the Oireachtas Directory but since I'm no longer resident in Ireland I don't have any local TDs. Good idea though, keep them coming.

Gamb!t · 27-04-2015 06:03PM

I remember the Opera house was struggling ages back and the TD's were doing their best to keep it going.I dont see why they cant do the same for the airport.

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 06:09PM

My best guess is that they really don't want it to succeed. Not go to the wall exactly, but not generate as much traffic as Dublin. It's politics, basically.

Dannyboy83 · 27-04-2015 07:20PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Au contraire, there has been a lot more movement in terms of meetings and plans that correlate with the growth of the Facebook page. This momentum has to continue. Never underestimate the power of viral media. I have blitzed the Oireachtas Directory but since I'm no longer resident in Ireland I don't have any local TDs. Good idea though, keep them coming.

Fully Agree.
Part of the reason why writing to public officials has failed for so long, is because there is little public pressure, they reply privately and individually.
It's the behaviour which TDs crave, as they are fully in control and can 'handle' the situation and even spin it.
(If those water protesters had merely written to their TDs, it's unlikely we would have even heard about it!)

Social Media, when it reaches critical mass, can cause an unbearable situation for public officials, as it hold them publicly accountable, but particularly when it highlights 'inaction' by individual TDs.

Having said that, I agree with twowheelsgood in that an obscure petition which only has 3000 likes is evidently having little impact.
Better to keep it concentrated on Facebook

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 07:25PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Having said that, I agree with twowheelsgood in that an obscure petition which only has 3000 likes is evidently having little impact.
Better to keep it concentrated on Facebook

Can't there be both?

Dannyboy83 · 27-04-2015 07:57PM

denhaagenite wrote: »

Can't there be both?

If both could reach critical mass, certainly, but given the petition has failed to reach 3k, while FB is at 25k+, it appears to me that is not happening.

The biggest problem though is the disconnect.
That is, the fact that this situation arose out of the past government.
So ministers shrug their shoulders and say - 'don't look at us, that was them'.

The issue has to move on now, from 'who did it?', to 'who is prolonging it?'.
This is the government of 'reform', after all.

'Save Cork Airport' makes Cork Airport seem like it's failing due it's own inadequacies.
'Unshackle Cork Airport' or 'Equality for Cork Airport' is more aggressive and points the finger of blame where it belongs imo.

Journalists should also be tackling TDs about their 'inaction', putting them on the spot, holding them publicly accountable, 'giving them something to lose'.

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 08:02PM

It's posts like the above that make it so irritating that the first thread was closed. There is a need for ideas and action. The government are just ignoring it in the hope that people will forget about it and the Cork representatives seem to be pandering to the Dáil and DAA. It's a pure cover up and nothing else!!

There needs to be real answers as to why debt forgiveness has been reneged upon for Cork when it's clearly working in Shannon. None of this "oh shur that's got nothing to do with it, it's marketing that's at fault, have some stickers"

Rhys Essien · 27-04-2015 10:20PM

There is something red rotten going on behind the scenes.Cork has 1/3 the population of Dublin yet it has less than 10% passenger numbers.Stevie Wonder could see that thats not right.I have said it in the old thread that Dublins passenger numbers should be around 18m and not 21m.Corks figures should be around 6m.

We are losing passengers to Dublin,Shannon and now even Kerry on European routes.This should not be the case.

Whats drives me spare is the way some individuals like to think Cork should be on a par with Kerry,Shannon and Knock when we should be clearly second.

At this stage Im tempted to start a Conspiracies thread on the whole thing.

denhaagenite · 27-04-2015 10:50PM

Agreed. Just some interesting figures from the website:

Direct flights to 12 countries
36 destinations
Only 15 of these could be described as "business" type destinations
No less than 9 Spanish routes, a quarter of all destinations.
22 Aer Lingus
19 Ryanair
2 Czech Airlines
1 Fly Be

And these flights aren't even running year round, it's just ridiculous. I even think the numbers are probably flawed as they still have Brussels up there. There needs to be flights to Berlin, Frankfurt/ Cologne/ Dusseldorf, Antwerp/ Brussels, Helsinki, Copenhagen, Bern, even Belfast!

I think the best thing for Cork Airport to do is run targeted surveys to see what routes are economically viable. Ones which would be used. Canvas the multinationals for info, try and get some new airlines on board. It's easy to make a start on that but until control, both managerial and financial, is wrestled back from the DAA then it can't happen. You can

Cork Airport all you like but if they don't fly anywhere you need to go then you can't give them your custom over another airport.

A political entity in Cork that made the airport their priority could do very well for themselves.

lisasimpson · 28-04-2015 06:30AM

Ive said it before the whole cork airport situation needs to be highlighted on a national scale. Shannon on the past were v good at this. Maybe try to get support of those from the minster region working in the national media to feature it

On another note, there was an article on the sunday independent last weekend about the increase in the number of irish people taking holidays aboard this year.in it it said the pressure in dublin airport with increasing numbers that holiday operators would like to see more charter flights from cork and shannon to help with the pressure at peak times

Cosmo Kramer · 28-04-2015 06:43AM

People looking to "save Cork Airport" need to forget any comparisons to Dublin which, unlike every other Irish airport, serves the entire island of six million people and is the main incoming gateway to the country rather than just the region in which it is situated.

The main issue for Cork is the continued existence of the heavily state subsidised aviation relic 75 miles to the north at Shannon which serves much of the same regional catchment area. Highlighting the bias shown to that airport over the other Irish regionals should be your first step in terms of engaging with politicians on this issue.

denhaagenite · 28-04-2015 06:49AM

lisasimpson wrote: »

On another note, there was an article on the sunday independent last weekend about the increase in the number of irish people taking holidays aboard this year.in it it said the pressure in dublin airport with increasing numbers that holiday operators would like to see more charter flights from cork and shannon to help with the pressure at peak times

I think this is a sticking plaster on a broken leg and should be totally ignored. For one thing, it's temporary, using Cork/ Shannon airports as overflow carparks for Dublin- f*ck off. For another, we should be trying to get people into the country not out of it.

denhaagenite · 28-04-2015 06:52AM

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

People looking to "save Cork Airport" need to forget any comparisons to Dublin which, unlike every other Irish airport, serves the entire island of six million people and is the main incoming gateway to the country rather than just the region in which it is situated.

The main issue for Cork is the continued existence of the heavily state subsidised aviation relic 75 miles to the north at Shannon which serves much of the same regional catchment area. Highlighting the bias shown to that airport over the other Irish regionals should be your first step in terms of engaging with politicians on this issue.

There needs to be an airport for the West too, just a far smaller one. It's a bit much to suggest that Clare/ Galway are in Cork's catchment area and Waterford in Shannon's.

AugustusMinimus · 28-04-2015 07:20AM

The evidence of what happening points to me of an active campaign by the government and DAA to wreck this airport.

It's worse than that though. Corks public funding for infrastructural projects is woeful and way below what the likes of Limerick and Galway have got in recent years.

Just remember what this government has done for Cork when you next go to the polls.

kub · 28-04-2015 05:01PM

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The evidence of what happening points to me of an active campaign by the government and DAA to wreck this airport.

It's worse than that though. Corks public funding for infrastructural projects is woeful and way below what the likes of Limerick and Galway have got in recent years.

Just remember what this government has done for Cork when you next go to the polls.

The polls is where the problem will be, who will we vote for?

two wheels good · 28-04-2015 05:48PM

Some comments prompt me to look up this recent article in the Irish Times which points out the gradual decline in population

[ Having twice the population it now has so that it could compete with Dublin for inward investment was] .." what was envisaged by the Buchanan report on regional development way back in 1968. Commissioned by the government, it proposed designating both Cork and Limerick/Shannon as “national growth centres”, to counterbalance the development of Dublin.

But although Athlone, Drogheda, Dundalk, Sligo and Waterford would have formed a “second tier” of growth centres – to spread the benefits more widely – there was such a fierce backlash from rural Ireland that politicians in power gave up and opted for dispersal.

Thus, nearly every town ended up with an IDA “advance factory” while a laissez faire approach was adopted to the development of Dublin; in its gutless decision on Buchanan, made in 1972, the government allowed that the capital would continue on growing with no limits"

pwurple · 29-04-2015 08:42AM

denhaagenite wrote: »

I even think the numbers are probably flawed as they still have Brussels up there.

I agree, the numbers make it look like a service exists, where effectively none does.

Brussels is twice a week, middle of the day. That is not a functioning business service. I flew with colleagues from a Cork-based company to and from Brussels in the last month. We all went through Dublin. Flight times/days were not suitable.

JCX BXC · 01-05-2015 01:12PM

It is my opinion that Cork will never succeed under the strangling hold of the DAA. The DAA will just play Cork off Shannon and will end in both airports being completely broke and Dublin getting all the passengers from the services that no longer exist.

If Cork is separated from the DAA, then Shannon and Cork can work together to try and get a few passengers back from Dublin. Dublin has a far larger passenger count then it should have proportionate to its population.

CINCLANTFLT · 01-05-2015 03:12PM

I unfollowed the negative and odd Facebook page this week.... They linked to an old article about a guy going on a rampage a few years ago... They had been complaining earlier in the week that some people thought the tone of the page was negative... They pooh pooh this and then put up... And delete.... A negative story anyway...

JCX BXC · 01-05-2015 03:30PM

I agree, the page is very negative! Cork Is still a great airport, you'd sware it's just holding onto its last route!

01-05-2015 08:36PM

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The evidence of what happening points to me of an active campaign by the government and DAA to wreck this airport.

It's worse than that though. Corks public funding for infrastructural projects is woeful and way below what the likes of Limerick and Galway have got in recent years.

Just remember what this government has done for Cork when you next go to the polls.

Annual €38 million of taxpayers money been used to support Shannon airport ... i can think of better uses.
When Shannon Airport gained independence from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA), it secured an estimated €38m annual rent income from nearby industrial land.
http://www.independent.ie/business/wing-and-a-prayer-can-airports-rise-above-storm-31165712.html

It should of been clear to Michael Martin two years ago that that money would of been used by Shannon to entice Ryanair to switch routes from Cork to Shannon. Money that should of been given to the taxpayers assets is instead been used to undermine Cork airport.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/shannon-airport-business-model-a-race-to-the-bottom-ff-leader-claims-31182686.html

I'd suggest Martin looks for a similar yearly slush fund for Cork airport. Like Shannon, Maybe get the government to hand over several hundred buildings that have rent going to the state and transfer it to support the airport and its passengers. Then add in a few thousand acres of state land for good measure. I say that half in jest, but it is effectively what has happened with Shannon.

Shannon will do what it can to continue to undermine Cork airport while it is given money to do so as its in its commercial interest to take passengers from Cork, that is a failure by Cork Politicians. Noonan and co pulled a masterstroke for shannon while Martin and Mcgrath slept. Jeopardising Corks biggest asset should cost them their jobs as the local politicians.

leahyl · 01-05-2015 09:15PM

Carnacalla and Mayomaffia, don't post in this thread again. Carnacalla, mods have had it up to here with you reporting every post that you don't agree with. Just don't post anymore, it's that simple. Barking orders to the mods like the report you just sent won't be tolerated either.

If this continues, i'm closing the thread and handing out bans. Sick of it now.

Figerty · 02-05-2015 09:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Annual €38 million of taxpayers money been used to support Shannon airport ... i can think of better uses.
When Shannon Airport gained independence from the Dublin Airport Authority (DAA), it secured an estimated €38m annual rent income from nearby industrial land.
http://www.independent.ie/business/wing-and-a-prayer-can-airports-rise-above-storm-31165712.html

It should of been clear to Michael Martin two years ago that that money would of been used by Shannon to entice Ryanair to switch routes from Cork to Shannon. Money that should of been given to the taxpayers assets is instead been used to undermine Cork airport.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/shannon-airport-business-model-a-race-to-the-bottom-ff-leader-claims-31182686.html

I'd suggest Martin looks for a similar yearly slush fund for Cork airport. Like Shannon, Maybe get the government to hand over several hundred buildings that have rent going to the state and transfer it to support the airport and its passengers. Then add in a few thousand acres of state land for good measure. I say that half in jest, but it is effectively what has happened with Shannon.

Shannon will do what it can to continue to undermine Cork airport while it is given money to do so as its in its commercial interest to take passengers from Cork, that is a failure by Cork Politicians. Noonan and co pulled a masterstroke for shannon while Martin and Mcgrath slept. Jeopardising Corks biggest asset should cost them their jobs as the local politicians.

I'm from the mid west region so people will know where I am coming from. I chatted about this with my Cork buddies over the years.
I'm told that Cork Airport is built on a hill, prone to fog and can't be extended.

Those alone enough limitations to put Cork at a natural disadvantage at this stage any any business model will struggle to cope with those.
Shannon is getting rent money from the old Shannon Development land bank. That isn't free money, there is a responsibility for that work for the airport in terms of development and progress.

From a mid-west perspective Cork has another problem. With the opening of the Shannon Tunnel anywhere north of Mallow is now easily in the Shannon Catchment. In fact the Catchment area of Shannon is now North Cork to Galway and into Tipperary.That gives Shannon a population base as large as Cork.

It takes 3 tolls to get to Dublin Airport by road from Galway and the new Gort-Tuam bypass is going to make it easier to get to Shannon. The road to Cork from Limerick is one of the worst National roads in the country.

As one poster said earlier, it's not Cork vs Shannon,, it Dublin vs balanced regional development.

roundymac · 02-05-2015 05:52PM

Saw on todays Irish Examiner that there is to be a review of charges at Cork Airport. Looks like someone is finally wakeing up. Can't find the link, you'll have to go routing yourselves.

kub · 02-05-2015 07:10PM

I would not at all be surprised if they raise them.

JCX BXC · 02-05-2015 07:14PM

What if the DAA were convinced to raise them and scare Ryanair off completely? Then, it may trigger an actual government response.

kub · 02-05-2015 08:11PM

I thought that a decision on charges was up to the aviation commissioner's office.

keithclancy · 02-05-2015 08:40PM

In other news:

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/04/21/large-investment-planned-for-eindhoven-airport-region/

The government is investing a total of 40 million euros to improve Eindhoven Airport’s accessibility. Last year nearly 4 million people flew through the airport.

Eindhoven Airport is a similar size to Cork Airport and it's thriving.

JCX BXC · 02-05-2015 11:38PM

keithclancy wrote: »

In other news:

http://www.nltimes.nl/2015/04/21/large-investment-planned-for-eindhoven-airport-region/

Eindhoven Airport is a similar size to Cork Airport and it's thriving.

One thing I will say, wait for Ryanair to switch to Amsterdam and see how it is then

Cork Airport - *Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting*

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Cork Airport - Read Mod Note in First Post Before Posting