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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13 RambuzzH


    The marriage system is fine. Gays shouldn't be taken seriously at all. You gotta think of it, Gays have that really sick urge in their head to ride another man, people get that same disgusting urge to ride an animal. So what's next, people can marry their pet cats after sticking it up them? Sounds absolutely disgusting doesn't it? There's no purpose in banging an animal because it wont produce, same for gays. Banging another man wont have him produce any kids so why do it? I'll tell you why he does it. Its because uncle jimmy in his little tight rainbow pyjamas has a mental illness that people try to accept as being ''normal'' in this sad society. Sorry but there's nothing normal about doing sexual acts with another man. Its a sick feeling more than anything. And if you ever have that sick little feeling in your head to touch another man in a sexual way. You definitely need help. Now sure you can say everybody should be allowed to love eachother, but to an extent. I love all my mates, I'm sure we all love our male mates. But not in a romantic way where id want to perform sex with them. It goes against nature. Sex is for male and female. Its how society works and how the world we live in today was made. So why change it?

    Another thing that makes me sick is the fact that people would think its ok for a gay couple to adopt a child. Why ruin that childs life and not give him the normal experience of having a male and female couple? Again screwing up other peoples lives and not giving the poor kid a choice in the matter, hes forced to grow up with two dads. God knows most of their adopted kids could turn out gay because of the influence of their parents. I don't like to hate on other minorities or anything but when you start impacting the lives of normal human beings. That's when its time to take a stand. Again if you are gay good on ya, go have fun with it. But don't expect to change how marriage works and to start adopting children. Leave that to normal people. Thanks and don't take this post down. Everybody should have freedom of speech. I strongly believe that being gay is more of a mental illness than anything else. Having people with such a mental mindstate shouldn't be allowed to make changes to our society. Thanks

    Mod: User Banned


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Male and females influence does not mean it has to be mammy and daddy.
    Are you equally concerned about single parents? Where will their children get male and female influence from?
    Why only concern for the children raised by same sex parents???



    Will every father be there every night and every morning?
    What about the fathers who work long hours?
    Or have a long commute?
    Or work abroad?
    Or play GAA - those lads train a lot and work too- ?
    Or in the Army - no 6 months peacekeeping abroad if you are a daddy?
    Or Navy - can't go to sea when you are a daddy?
    Pilots?
    Firefighters?


    No - in the main it wasn't. In the main men used to go to work while women took care of the children. All the men in my father's family were bakers. They all started work at 4 am. Never there in the mornings. Ever. My brother worked in Italy but his family lived in Switzerland - they saw him on weekends.

    Then women went to work too (when they weren't barred from doing so) so people had to make child care arrangements - grand parents, child minders, creche etc until the children went to school aged 5 when they were to come under the influence of many many different influences and so on and so forth.

    I really don't know what fantasy world you think was/is out there but the reality is that for most married couples with children they are working their arses off the pay for childcare so they can work and childcare is where children spend most of their day. Not at home with a Stepford wife baking apple pie.

    Yes I am as equally concerned about single parents because I have seen the negative effects. I work with children and those with single parents show worse behaviour and academic ability than those with both parents. This is not to say that the single parents aren't good parents and aren't trying their best. It's just that it's not an optimal situation.

    The fathers you list there will be around more regularly than the other people mentioned by the other poster.

    The biggest influence is the mum and dad in the majority of cases.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    What do you think homosexuals will do that makes it undesirable for them to be allowed to raise children?

    I don't think they'll do anything but it's not the optimal situation, that's what I'm saying.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Like Jim Sheehan for example?
    Nope. He agrees with me.

    Did you miss the bit where anti SSM campaigners in Utah removed all mention of your 'proof' because it was so flawed it was harming their case?

    Or even follow the link sonics supplied?

    I used your Jim Sheehan quote for my response. I don't know why they removed the study, I think there was valid reasons given for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Am yeah, I think the people who did the study with their years of experience working with children and families and degrees and PhDs and actually doing researc might disagree with you.

    It was supposed to be "studies" according to your original post. Where, might I ask, are the others?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,711 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Just so we're absolutely clear here and I'm not quoting you out of context -

    noway12345 wrote: »
    The biggest influence on a child comes from their parents. This is an undeniable fact.

    noway12345 wrote: »
    Parents are the number 1 influence.

    noway12345 wrote: »
    Of course there are exceptions.

    noway12345 wrote: »
    It is a fact.


    So it's gone from being an undeniable fact, to not being a fact, and back to being a fact?

    Could you help me out with that one, because I'm not sure what you actually mean when you say something is an undeniable fact, then acknowledge that it's not a fact, then put forward again that it is a fact?

    Not trying to be smart here, I just don't understand what you're at really.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Nodin wrote: »
    It was supposed to be "studies" according to your original post. Where, might I ask, are the others?

    1 not enough for ya? I'll send ya some more tomorrow.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Just so we're absolutely clear here and I'm not quoting you out of context -














    So it's gone from being an undeniable fact, to not being a fact, and back to being a fact?

    Could you help me out with that one, because I'm not sure what you actually mean when you say something is an undeniable fact, then acknowledge that it's not a fact, then put forward again that it is a fact?

    Not trying to be smart here, I just don't understand what you're at really.

    I explained I left out a bit of the sentence I meant and thought I had made.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    I have to go to bed, I'll leave you with another child of same sex parents: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/not-all-children-raised-by-gay-parents-support-gay-marriage-i-should-know-i


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    This is what the Dept of Sociology at the University of Texas at Austin has to say about Regerus
    Statement from the Chair Regarding Professor Regnerus

    Posted: April 12, 2014

    Like all faculty, Dr. Regnerus has the right to pursue his areas of research and express his point of view. However, Dr. Regnerus’ opinions are his own. They do not reflect the views of the Sociology Department of The University of Texas at Austin. Nor do they reflect the views of the American Sociological Association, which takes the position that the conclusions he draws from his study of gay parenting are fundamentally flawed on conceptual and methodological grounds and that findings from Dr. Regnerus’ work have been cited inappropriately in efforts to diminish the civil rights and legitimacy of LBGTQ partners and their families. We encourage society as a whole to evaluate his claims.
    https://www.utexas.edu/cola/depts/sociology/news/7572

    That's university speak for he has tenure so we can't fire his ass but boy oh boy are we going to distance ourselves from him as much as possible.

    Jayzuz... he even trying to distance himself from himself...that's baaad..
    The author of a controversial study of adult children often cited by opponents of gay marriage defended his work in court on Monday but also said it was too early for social scientists to make far-reaching conclusions about families headed by same-sex couples...
    ... he later acknowledged that his study didn't include children raised by same-sex couples in a stable relationship.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/04/mark-regnerus-gay-marriage_n_4896142.html

    There's more if you want... or do you want to continue to claim everyone is out to get him.. even himself apparently...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    noway12345 wrote: »
    1 not enough for ya? I'll send ya some more tomorrow.


    One is never enough. I'm not even kidding, you can get one study that "proves" just about everything. No study is even the same, no scientist is the same, no journal is the same. Therefore, you need multiple studies from credible journals. Or a meta-analysis.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,711 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    noway12345 wrote: »
    I explained I left out a bit of the sentence I meant and thought I had made.


    Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?










    No? I can't make any sense of what you just wrote either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    noway12345 wrote:
    Here's another interesting thing that happened in America. People may try to discredit these people aswell but they testified to this in court.


    Many people will testify to a **** upbringing by heterosexuals. What is your point?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Sonics2k wrote: »

    Ok, out of all the posts on this thread to rub me the wrong way, this is by far the worst, the most infuriating. :mad:

    It goes, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

    God damn Princess Bride misquoter, you!

    ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    noway12345 wrote: »
    Yes I am as equally concerned about single parents because I have seen the negative effects. I work with children and those with single parents show worse behaviour and academic ability than those with both parents. This is not to say that the single parents aren't good parents and aren't trying their best. It's just that it's not an optimal situation.

    The fathers you list there will be around more regularly than the other people mentioned by the other poster.

    The biggest influence is the mum and dad in the majority of cases.

    And I have worked with kids being raised by married couples who were robbing, thieving toe rags but strangely I don't think that was because they were raised by a married couple.

    You seriously cannot take your personal experiences and then decide that describes everyone and act like if these kids just had a heterosexual married couple as mammy and daddy everything in their lives would be perfect because there is no such thing as a married couple who are also crap parents.

    Optimal is when a child is loved, supported, encouraged, taught right from wrong, nurtured, disciplined when required, clean, warm, fed, played with, listened to... parented. Ability to reproduced is not the same as ability to parent but that is what you have reduced it to and that is scary tbh.

    Scary that you think the criteria for optimal care of a child is fertility. :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Links234 wrote: »
    Ok, out of all the posts on this thread to rub me the wrong way, this is by far the worst, the most infuriating. :mad:

    It goes, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

    God damn Princess Bride misquoter, you!

    ;)

    His lesbian mothers will beat him.


    :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,013 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Mark Regenerus's study resurrected.......... one need say no more!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 793 ✭✭✭LadyAthame


    Links234 wrote: »
    Ok, out of all the posts on this thread to rub me the wrong way, this is by far the worst, the most infuriating. :mad:

    It goes, "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means"

    God damn Princess Bride misquoter, you!


    ;)
    I love you for this post.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    As you wish ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,453 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    I've been steering clear of the thread for a while. Any news? Any coherent, logical, rational reason to vote 'no' yet? I tried reading back, but it appears somebody dribbled on the Internet.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭GCU Flexible Demeanour


    If the referendum on marriage equality is passed, it will simply be 'marriage' with no distinction as to the sex of the parties involved, so how that couple chooses to conceive a child within their marriage, both heterosexual and homosexual couples will have the same access to AHR services as each other.
    Yes, up to a point. But none of that changes a single word that I said.
    And AHR HAS been substantially legislated for in the Children and Family Relationship Act, which is why I suggested you look at it (your link is out of date already).

    Your efforts to poison the well with your linguistic gymnastics are nothing short of pathetic tbh. You haven't a leg to stand on here and you're doing your best to confuse and frustrate people.

    If your point is neither a reason to pass nor reject the referendum, then why bother trying to draw it out at all?
    Ah, yeah, there''s more in the Act than I thought there would be. But the rest of your post is hard to make sense of. I'm stating a plain, banal fact. And it seems to have exactly the effect on some that I thought it would. I doubt you could coherently expand on how I haven't a leg to stand on.

    I'm drawing it out for exactly the reason stated. There''s a block of law that''s essential for straight marriage, and irrelevant to SSM.

    And as your post shows, some people have great problems hearing that banal fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    noway12345 wrote: »
    1 not enough for ya? I'll send ya some more tomorrow.

    Ty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,711 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Yes, up to a point. But none of that changes a single word that I said. Ah, yeah, there''s more in the Act than I thought there would be. But the rest of your post is hard to make sense of. I'm stating a plain, banal fact. And it seems to have exactly the effect on some that I thought it would. I doubt you could coherently expand on how I haven't a leg to stand on.

    I'm drawing it out for exactly the reason stated. There''s a block of law that''s essential for straight marriage, and irrelevant to SSM.

    And as your post shows, some people have great problems hearing that banal fact.


    I've demonstrated how that block of legislation is relevant to marriage. If the referendum is passed, there won't be any such new institution as "same-sex marriage", it will still simply be "the institution of civil marriage". How a couple chooses to conceive within their marriage is now legislated for, and that legislation applies to all married couples.

    No doubt you'll find another way to twist that moot point, but what you're getting at is lost on most people. You'll have to do a better job explaining exactly what you're getting at or why, because so far you appear to be misinformed and in denial, trying to make the same point again and again when you've been shown to be demonstrably ill informed already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Latest one now from the anti water crowd is to push a no vote as the referendum failing would bring down the government.

    idiots.

    Not true.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    noway12345 wrote: »
    I work with children.......

    Jesus. Don't they have vetting procedures anymore for people who work with children?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,106 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    I was chatting to a friend about this the other day and he asked if I had ever heard a good argument against gay marriage. In fairness I hadn't really looked for any so I set about looking for arguments against gay marriage and against the referendum.

    So far I have come up with arguments which are consistent if you agree with certain premises.

    If you believe in a god who opposes gays you could follow that line of logic and end up opposing gay marriage.

    If you oppose changing the meaning of words you might be uncomfortable with changing what 'marriage' means to you, then you might oppose gay marriage.

    If you think gays are icky you might oppose the gays in general and oppose gay marriage.

    I watched a David Quinn video and he harks back to a time when men were men and went out to work, women raised babies and stayed at home, and voting Yes to gay marriage will lead to more problems in society. I could follow the story but I couldn't understand how one point led to the next. If you can follow his logic, you might oppose gay marriage.

    So I did find arguments which oppose gay marriage but none of them were particularly convincing.

    Has anyone else found any good reasons to oppose gay marriage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    noway12345 wrote: »

    OK, not only have you completely misrepresented the consensus position on the academic research in this area but now to support your spurious argument you have presented a study which is about as bad an example of bad science and borderline fraudulent as it is possible to get.

    The actual research which you are attempting to misrepresent says that THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between children raised by same-sex parents and opposite sex parents. Rather than posting a summary link, I think that the full weight of the research that is stacked against you might help here:


    Key papers:



    Books, Reviews, Meta-Analyses

    The Role of the Father in Child Development, Michael E. Lamb

    Tasker, F. (2005). Lesbian mothers, gay fathers and their children: A
    review.
    Journal of Developmental and Behavioral Pediatrics, 26,
    224–240.

    Tasker, F. (2010) Same-sex parenting and child development: Reviewing the contribution of parental gender, Journal of Marriage and Family

    Crowl et al. (2008) A Meta-Analysis of Developmental Outcomes for Children of Same-sex and Heterosexual Parents


    Consensus Positions


    American Psychological AssocationSexual Orientation, Parents, & Children

    Amicus brief submitted in support of 9th Circuit Court of Appeals challenge to California Prop 8

    Lesbian and Gay Parenting Resource Publication


    Canadian Psychological Association

    Brief presented to the Legislative House of Commons Committee on Bill
    C38



    American Academy of Pediatrics

    Policy statement - Coparent or second-parent adoption by same-sex parents

    American Academy of Pediatrics Supports Same Gender Civil Marriage

    Australian Psychological Society

    Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) parented families - A literature review


    American Psychoanalytic Association

    Position statement on Gay and Lesbian Parenting


    American Psychiatric Association

    Position Statement in Support of Legal Recognition of Same-Sex Civil Marriage


    North American Council on Adoptable Children

    Gay and Lesbian Adoptions and Foster Care


    Royal College of Psychiatrists

    Submission to the Church of England's Listening Exercise on Human Sexuality


    American Academy of Child & Adolescent Pscyhiatry

    Children with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender parents


    American National Association of Social Workers

    Amicus brief - California Supreme Court - Case No. S147999


    Legal Decisions

    Third District Court of Appeal, State of Florida, Docket No. 3D08-3044
    "As a result, based on the robust nature of the evidence available in the field, this Court is satisfied that the issue is so far beyond dispute that it would be irrational to hold otherwise; the best interests of children are not preserved by prohibiting homosexual adoption."


    Now, getting back to Mark Regnerus, his study is as badly flawed as its possible to get. Its a wonder it got past peer review at all. Here's a small snapshot of the reasons why Regnerus' study is flawed:

    1.1. Methodological Problems

    The first problem is that the Regnerus study contains several serious flaws in its experiment design.
    1.1.1. Population sample

    The first problem is the sample of individuals chosen to undertake the questionnaire. The study interviewed individuals only between the ages of 18-39 and questions them on their childhood. This means that the author is only looking at a snapshot of time between 1972 and 2011. There are two problems with this. Firstly, it means that the study has no depth. There is no longitudinality which is something that usually makes for the most robust conclusions. The author even makes an acknowledgement of this fact:

    "There are several things the NFSS is not. The NFSS is not a longitudinal study, and therefore cannot attempt to broach questions of causation."
    Secondly, this snapshot covers an area of massive flux with regard to same-sex parenting. It moves from a time when homosexual parenting was entirely unusual and mostly prohibited to a time when it is becoming an accepted family form and yet seeks to make broad conclusions about the snapshot as a whole.

    Also with regard to sample selection, Regnerus opens his study with an attack on previous studies such as the NLLFS (National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study) for their poor sample selection. However, Regnerus used Knowledge Networks to gather his sample data despite having prior knowledge that a) KN had a limited ability to connect him with people who fell under the criteria of the study and b) there were other companies available who could have supplied more rigorous data.


    1.1.2. Classification problems

    There are several problems in this section in the design of the experiment.

    The first problem is the classification of family form. The survey uses the following categories for analysis:

    1.IBF: Lived in intact biological family (with mother and father) from 0 to 18, and parents are still married at present (N = 919).
    2.LM: R reported R’s mother had a same-sex romantic (lesbian) relationship with a woman, regardless of any other household transitions (N = 163).
    3.GF: R reported R’s father had a same-sex romantic (gay) relationship with a man, regardless of any other household transitions (N= 73).
    4.Adopted: R was adopted by one or two strangers at birth or before age 2 (N = 101).
    5.Divorced later or had joint custody: R reported living with biological mother and father from birth to age 18, but parents are not married at present (N = 116).
    6.Stepfamily: Biological parents were either never married or else divorced, and R’s primary custodial parent was married to someone else before R turned 18 (N = 394).
    7.Single parent: Biological parents were either never married or else divorced, and R’s primary custodial parent did not marry (or remarry) before R turned 18 (N = 816).
    8.All others: Includes all other family structure/event combinations, such as respondents with a deceased parent (N = 406).

    The problem here is that while broken homes are included in both types of same-sex families, they are definitionally excluded from heterosexual couples so that the comparisons made later on are fundamentally flawed.

    The second problem with the classification above is that any instance of infidelity with a same-sex partner moves the respondent into either LM or GF regardless of the nature of the infidelity (i.e. one night stand vs. long term relationship).

    The final problem with the classification above is that a number of respondents were found to fit into more than one category. To resolve this overlap Regnerus makes arbitrary decisions in order to achieve the results he wants:

    "That is, a small minority of respondents might fit more than one group. I have, however, forced their mutual exclusivity here for analytic purposes. For example, a respondent whose mother had a same-sex relationship might also qualify in Group 5 or Group 7, but in this case my analytical interest is in maximizing the sample size of Groups 2 and 3 so the respondent would be placed in Group 2 (LMs). Since Group 3 (GFs) is the smallest and most difficult to locate randomly in the population, its composition trumped that of others, even LMs. (There were 12 cases of respondents who reported both a mother and a father having a same-sex relationship; all are analyzed here as GFs, after ancillary analyses revealed comparable exposure to both their mother and father)."That, btw, is as good an example of bad science as you're ever likely to see.

    In classifying the data this way, Regnerus creates a homogeneous IBF category and compares it against LM and GF categories which are made up of a number of different relationship types both stable and unstable. That dog won't hunt Monsignor.


    1.1.3. Analytical problems

    The first problem in this category is Regnerus' idea of what constitutes a bad outcome for children. In particular Regnerus classifies the "current" receipt of public assistance (i.e. social welfare) as a bad outcome.
    The problem with this analysis is that America is currently in the depths of one of the deepest economic crises it has faced, yet Regnerus makes no attempt to analyses the other socio-economic factors that play into this in analysing the data.

    The second and bigger problem is that the classification errors made by Regnerus in his experiment design leads him to making the wrong comparison. Children in a family where one or both parents were in a same-sex relationship were found to have similar outcomes to those in divorced, cohabiting and step families and markedly different from intact heterosexual families. This is because he designed the study this way. What he actually ended up doing was comparing stable families against non-stable ones and the conclusions don't offer any new insight into the field which is what research is supposed to do.
    To put it simply he analysed bad data with a badly designed experiment to get bad results and ended up with bad conclusions.
    1.2. Ethical problems

    Herein lies the truly repugnant aspect of this study. Regnerus made some bad choices in even opting to start this study which not only impacts on his conclusions but on science as a whole. Bad science is in and of itself unethical but Regnerus' actions were even more so.

    Firstly, Regnerus in a video interview admitted that his study does not work "to the long-term benefit of science". If ever there was a reason for not doing a study, that is it.

    Secondly, Regnerus accepted a grant of $35000 from the Witherspoon Instiute to produce this study, hoping that Regnerus' reputation as a social scientist (which isn't looking great now) would give it an air of authority. Regnerus admitted that because of the grant he rushed it into publication for use in their 2012 election material.

    Finally, Regnerus didn't approach the NIH for funding because in his words:

    "I had a feeling when we started this project that it would not survive the politics of, in my opinion, the peer review system at the National Institute of Health"I think that sentence speaks for itself.


    It cannot be said enough times on this thread, the topic of LGBT parenting has nothing to do with this referendum. Gay couples can already adopt by means of the Children and Family Relationships Bill 2015 and access AHR. Surrogacy meanwhile will be dealt with by separate legislation.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    sup_dude wrote: »
    One is never enough. I'm not even kidding, you can get one study that "proves" just about everything. No study is even the same, no scientist is the same, no journal is the same. Therefore, you need multiple studies from credible journals. Or a meta-analysis.

    So really no study can prove anything?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?










    No? I can't make any sense of what you just wrote either.

    I explained that I..........


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Many people will testify to a **** upbringing by heterosexuals. What is your point?

    People like this aren't testifying to a **** upbringing, they're saying it would have been more benificial to have a mother and a father.


This discussion has been closed.
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