Public sector pay increase

Mr. teddywinkles · 29-04-2015 10:18PM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Learn basic economics/accounting rather than reaching for bollocks retorts and hyperbole: Debt sustainability is determined by the interest rate on the debt, which is at its lowest level for over 30 years now with Ireland (and the highest level in years for Greece).

And this interest rate is fixed yea?

KomradeBishop · 29-04-2015 10:36PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

And this interest rate is fixed yea?

For the term of the debt issued, ya - I think that many people, are under the misapprehension that interest rates on government bonds, affect all of the debt, but it only affects newly issued debt - and that interest rate tends to be locked in for 10 years (in some cases lately, for 30 years).

So, there is huge room for increased government spending right now, based on public debt issued at perfectly sustainable interest rates.

Mr. teddywinkles · 29-04-2015 10:41PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Some crew of cribbing whiners on here! Why anyone gives a damn what the other person gets in salary and what for is beyond me. Let alone post 30 odd pages of shìte about them.

Just mind your own house and stop cribbing about next door.

Most of the argument is if the economy is stable enough for this. Why not use this money to better ends. More beds in hospitals. More staff etc. To my mind more logical

MonkeyTennis · 29-04-2015 10:58PM

If you gave it to PS workers it would go directly on

Decking
Tinted Windows
New Identities
Electric Double Basses

Justventing · 29-04-2015 11:05PM

What?! only the PS pays pension levy, PS kept services running despite unilaterally enforced pay cuts, increased working hours and as the PS is the last to get the trickle down from any economic improvement, we have to put up with public dissection of any changes long before any actual change will arise.

Kermit.de.frog · 29-04-2015 11:06PM

When public sector wages were going up in the last decade virtually no jobs were being created outside of construction. Wages were too high and the country too expensive. There was a huge plunge in the rate of FDI in Ireland from 2002.

Without the construction froth Ireland would have entered a big recession years before 2008. That is what happens when you price yourself out of the market.

Irish workers are not worth the highest wages in Europe especially the public sector.

29-04-2015 11:24PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Irish workers are not worth the highest wages in Europe especially the public sector.

Why not? We are well regarded as one of the best places in the world to do business and our highly skilled work force and excellent education system is one of the main reasons.

Some people really need to get over there blinding begrudgery of anyone making a cent more than them. Making up totally fictional stories about the public sector being the cause of the crash is a new low and particularly idiotic too.

Iwasfrozen · 29-04-2015 11:37PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

Why not? We are well regarded as one of the best places in the world to do business and our highly skilled work force and excellent education system is one of the main reasons.

Some people really need to get over there blinding begrudgery of anyone making a cent more than them. Making up totally fiction stories about the public sector being the cause of the crash is a new low and particularly idiotic too.

Excellent education system? Have you seen the university rankings? A lack of funding is being blamed.

jank · 30-04-2015 02:03AM

Has anyone even mentioned the elephant in the room, that is the pension timebomb? Again, heads in sand seems to be de-jour. Do we really need to make the same mistakes again?

Also people advocating borrowing more? I would accept the point if it were only for one off infrastructure investments as once the road, metro, class room is built or when the Garda car is bought then there is no real recurring costs apart from maintenance. Borrowing money to fund pay rises without any reform or productivity requirements is a stupid stupid course of action when that pay rise has to be then given indefinitely and of course is linked to the pension at the end of the day.

So, borrowing to fund capital projects and infrastructure, yes. Borrowing to find PS pay rises? Stupid.

Tiger Mcilroy · 30-04-2015 09:13AM

jank wrote: »

Has anyone even mentioned the elephant in the room, that is the pension timebomb? Again, heads in sand seems to be de-jour. Do we really need to make the same mistakes again?

Also people advocating borrowing more? I would accept the point if it were only for one off infrastructure investments as once the road, metro, class room is built or when the Garda car is bought then there is no real recurring costs apart from maintenance. Borrowing money to fund pay rises without any reform or productivity requirements is a stupid stupid course of action when that pay rise has to be then given indefinitely and of course is linked to the pension at the end of the day.

So, borrowing to fund capital projects and infrastructure, yes. Borrowing to find PS pay rises? Stupid.

Its this simple really, we all know that the irish government cannot do maths.

jcon1913 · 30-04-2015 09:26AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Excellent education system? Have you seen the university rankings? A lack of funding is being blamed.

When Intel compared Ireland to Scotland, they looked at education levels amongst 8 years olds, Ireland came out tops. Not sure if it has changed ( waits for rush of teachers at the keyboards ) but we have a good education system here as far as I can see.

jcon1913 · 30-04-2015 09:27AM

jank wrote: »

Has anyone even mentioned the elephant in the room, that is the pension timebomb? Again, heads in sand seems to be de-jour. Do we really need to make the same mistakes again?

Also people advocating borrowing more? I would accept the point if it were only for one off infrastructure investments as once the road, metro, class room is built or when the Garda car is bought then there is no real recurring costs apart from maintenance. Borrowing money to fund pay rises without any reform or productivity requirements is a stupid stupid course of action when that pay rise has to be then given indefinitely and of course is linked to the pension at the end of the day.

So, borrowing to fund capital projects and infrastructure, yes. Borrowing to find PS pay rises? Stupid.

Got it in one my friend.

stefanovich · 30-04-2015 09:29AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Excellent education system? Have you seen the university rankings? A lack of funding is being blamed.

Ireland ranks extremely high for secondary education though. I think 7th or 9th in the world?

ardmacha · 30-04-2015 09:37AM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Excellent education system? Have you seen the university rankings? A lack of funding is being blamed.

Which countries (as distinct from individual institutions) have higher rankings? And there is a lack of funding, fees are one quarter of those in England.

swimming in a sea · 30-04-2015 11:35AM

kippy wrote: »

What figure is a good figure to pay them?

I'd say about 22.5k, that is for 10 months at about 6.5 hours a day(being tight with the holidays)

that is based on twice the minimum wage, if they signed up to having normal working hours like everyone else then all for change.

30-04-2015 11:42AM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I'd say about 22.5k, that is for 10 months at about 6.5 hours a day(being tight with the holidays)

that is based on twice the minimum wage, if they signed up to having normal working hours like everyone else then all for change.

Ha ha 22.5k a year, you wouldn't get a dog to do the job for that.

Also forget about your 6.5 hours nonsense, teacher work far far more than that and during the holidays with all the preparation and correction etc they have to do.

How badly did you fail at your attempt to become a teacher?

kippy · 30-04-2015 12:36PM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I'd say about 22.5k, that is for 10 months at about 6.5 hours a day(being tight with the holidays)

that is based on twice the minimum wage, if they signed up to having normal working hours like everyone else then all for change.

And what kind of a scale would you think that should rise to?

(I'd add pretty much ALL teachers work for at least 6/5 hours per day at this stage and many more at certain times of the year.)

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:49PM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Teachers are paid way above what they should be, 45K is a ridiculously high salary for basically a part time job. A job which you can't be sacked from no matter how obvious it is that you're incompetent.

A friend was just offered 43k stg in the UK as a teacher. He has maybe 5-8 years experience. It seems to be a private school.

That's 60k euro.

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:52PM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

Teachers are paid way above what they should be, 45K is a ridiculously high salary for basically a part time job. A job which you can't be sacked from no matter how obvious it is that you're incompetent.

Young teachers have taken 3-4 paycuts.

They do an important job.

I'm sure we'd want the educators of our children to be high quality, wouldn't we?

A society should be proud to pay high wages to teachers, sure you'd want to be doing that.

Now, they should be productive and accountable, yes.

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:53PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Most of the argument is if the economy is stable enough for this. Why not use this money to better ends. More beds in hospitals. More staff etc. To my mind more logical

The HR function in the HSE has 2,000 staff and needs 800.

I don't think we need more staff there.

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:55PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Irish workers are not worth the highest wages in Europe especially the public sector.

Labour costs here are not the highest.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6761066/3-30032015-AP-EN.pdf/7462a05e-7118-480e-a3f5-34e690c11545

We are tenth from the top.

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:56PM

jank wrote: »

So, borrowing to fund capital projects and infrastructure, yes. Borrowing to find PS pay rises? Stupid.

Note that borrowing is due to fall, towards 0.5% of GDP.

This is due to the Fiscal Compact treaty.

So borrowing to fund anything won't be happened.

swimming in a sea · 30-04-2015 02:14PM

Geuze wrote: »

A friend was just offered 43k stg in the UK as a teacher. He has maybe 5-8 years experience. It seems to be a private school.

That's 60k euro.

I think you're backing me up. In a private school earning 43K you can be sure they won't be coasting or if they do they'll be a one year wonder heading off back to state education.

darkpagandeath · 30-04-2015 02:30PM

Geuze wrote: »

Labour costs here are not the highest.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6761066/3-30032015-AP-EN.pdf/7462a05e-7118-480e-a3f5-34e690c11545

We are tenth from the top.

Public service workers...

BoatMad · 30-04-2015 02:31PM

Geuze wrote: »

Note that borrowing is due to fall, towards 0.5% of GDP.

This is due to the Fiscal Compact treaty.

So borrowing to fund anything won't be happened.

several countries like france have already punched a few holes in that

30-04-2015 02:32PM

swimming in a sea wrote: »

I think you're backing me up. In a private school earning 43K you can be sure they won't be coasting or if they do they'll be a one year wonder heading off back to state education.

I would imagine there will be no difference at all between working in the private school and working in the state school. Of course this won't suit your ridiculous argument.

jcon1913 · 30-04-2015 02:38PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

I would imagine there will be no difference at all between working in the private school and working in the state school. Of course this won't suit your ridiculous argument.

Would you imagine that? Based on experience? Teachers in private education work longer hours than their public sectors colleagues as they are paid more.

So for example they are expected to give extra grinds, e.g. in private schools it would not be unusual for teachers to give extra classes in the run-up to Irish / French / Spanish orals.

They would be expected to put in extra hours by training a sports team, etc.

Simples

BoatMad · 30-04-2015 02:44PM

jcon1913 wrote: »

Would you imagine that? Based on experience? Teachers in private education work longer hours than their public sectors colleagues as they are paid more.

So for example they are expected to give extra grinds, e.g. in private schools it would not be unusual for teachers to give extra classes in the run-up to Irish / French / Spanish orals.

They would be expected to put in extra hours by training a sports team, etc.

Simples

very few actual private teachers in Ireland, private schools in fact have a lot of state paid teachers, that work similar hours to VEC schools

30-04-2015 03:25PM

BoatMad wrote: »

very few actual private teachers in Ireland, private schools in fact have a lot of state paid teachers, that work similar hours to VEC schools

And the ones that are actually private (like Yeats in Galway) are on very very good money and in reality their hours are similar enough to teachers in normal school.

uch · 30-04-2015 03:34PM

BoatMad wrote: »

very few actual private teachers in Ireland, private schools in fact have a lot of state paid teachers, that work similar hours to VEC schools

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

And the ones that are actually private (like yates in Galway) are on very very good money and in reality there hours are similar enough to teachers in normal school.

Don't be letting Facts get in the way of a Good Public service bashing will you !!!

Public sector pay increase

Comments