Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

galljga1 · 30-04-2015 11:12AM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

She knows what I think and respects my views as I do hers.

As for a yes vote not effecting my life.

It will mean a homosexual couple will have a right to be married by a registered person. If they say no, they are breaking the law. There is no allowance for conscience.
My kids will also be thought it in school. I don't want that to happen but will have no choice if I keep them in a public school.

Would that not be called discrimination in a civil matter?
I believe the various churches are allowed discriminate on religious grounds.

Ash.J.Williams · 30-04-2015 11:18AM

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Be taught what?

that' homosexuality exists

Greyian · 30-04-2015 11:20AM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

that' homosexuality exists

The horror!

Ash.J.Williams · 30-04-2015 11:22AM

Greyian wrote: »

The horror!

and taught that support is available if needed!

30-04-2015 11:23AM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

She knows what I think and respects my views as I do hers.

As for a yes vote not effecting my life.

It will mean a homosexual couple will have a right to be married by a registered person. If they say no, they are breaking the law. There is no allowance for conscience.

1 - Does this example actually affect your life?
2 - Is this true? Consider divorcees asking priests to marry them...

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

My kids will also be thought it in school. I don't want that to happen but will have no choice if I keep them in a public school.

3 - What would your kids be taught? That homosexuality is a 'real thing' and that they are real people and so deserve to be treated as such?

traprunner · 30-04-2015 11:32AM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

She knows what I think and respects my views as I do hers.

As for a yes vote not effecting my life.

It will mean a homosexual couple will have a right to be married by a registered person. If they say no, they are breaking the law. There is no allowance for conscience.
My kids will also be thought it in school. I don't want that to happen but will have no choice if I keep them in a public school.

So at the moment they get thought "when a man loves a woman....".
This will change to "when one person loves another....".

I don't see any problem with this. It's a part of life. It's natural and truthful. It could be worse. They could be thought lies like creationism.

30-04-2015 11:34AM

Taught it in school? I have to admit ignorance on this one. Can someone - tatranska I guess if possible but likely not considering he dodged and ignored the entirety of my last post - jog my memory and remind me where "marriage" currently figures in the public school curriculum? Under what module? And what exactly is taught there? And what proposals are current as to how those lines in the curriculum are likely to change if a "yes" vote were to come to pass?

I know my memories of school are sketchy - but I have no recollection at all of the topic of marriage coming up at any point in any subject.

SireOfSeth · 30-04-2015 12:10PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

For to consider homosexuals as not being treated as equal under current legislation one needs to believe that people are born homosexual.
I don't believe this.
As a practicing christia I beleive God is tge ultimate authority on the mater. I believe Gods view of homosexuality that it is sin and not the way God intended.
I also believe its a lie which people believe and then give themselves over to.

Just to clarify, are you saying that you decided to become heterosexual?

SireOfSeth · 30-04-2015 12:15PM

gk5000 wrote: »

No, the proposed ammendment would cause a conflict within this framework.
It's crazy to create unneeded problems.

The drafters and legislators should get this right before sending it to the people, and it should be sent back with a NO vote until its right.

I am not a bad person to want this fully clarified before the ammendment.

Are you saying that if the drafters/legislators sort it out first, you'd then be happy to vote YES?

Alf Veedersane · 30-04-2015 12:17PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

For to consider homosexuals as not being treated as equal under current legislation one needs to believe that people are born homosexual.
I don't believe this.
As a practicing christia I beleive God is tge ultimate authority on the mater. I believe Gods view of homosexuality that it is sin and not the way God intended.

I'm not going to criticise your views, per se. Their yours and you're obviously entitled to them.

But I just want to question something. If people can't be born homosexual because God didn't intend them to, then where does that leave God's role in children being born with severe handicaps, or similar?

Gneuinely just curious on what the take on that is - if one can suggest people cannot be born a certain way because it wasn't as God intended?

Or is it just filed under 'God moves in mysterious ways'?

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 12:24PM

SireOfSeth wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you saying that you decided to become heterosexual?

It actually makes me sad that there would be people in a modern society with such an ignorant view of the world.

Alf Veedersane · 30-04-2015 12:29PM

SireOfSeth wrote: »

Just to clarify, are you saying that you decided to become heterosexual?

As I read it, tatranska is saying that they were born as God intended and did not choose to amend that.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 12:34PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

As I read it, tatranska is saying that they were born as God intended and did not choose to amend that.

Surely it means:
born as God intended and chose to amend that - ie, they became homosexual through choice?

He/she says that no one is born homosexual.

SireOfSeth · 30-04-2015 12:34PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

As I read it, tatranska is saying that they were born as God intended and did not choose to amend that.

I believe that is tatranska's point too. However, I was wondering if tatranska chose to be heterosexual. Surely not? I know I didn't, and I don't know of anyone who did, tatranska would be the first that I know of. And how did tatranska evaluate the decision not to be homosexual?

sydthebeat · 30-04-2015 12:36PM

why is 'god' even coming into this debate on civil marriage?

sad really that people think the can force their religious views onto others

Alf Veedersane · 30-04-2015 12:38PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Surely it means:
born as God intended and chose to amend that - ie, they became homosexual through choice?

He/she says that no one is born homosexual.

I meant in tatranska's case.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 12:42PM

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I meant in tatranska's case.

Oh I get you now.

henryporter · 30-04-2015 12:51PM

I think tatranska's arguments on this thread thus far are typical of the backward and repressive views that the likes of Iona and Mothers and Fathers Matter are peddling - I'm a straight man and I'm offended by these attitudes, that homosexuality is perverse and unnatural, that it is almost picked up like a disease (therefore any gay people rearing children, or any child being educated about such matters will suddenly turn gay), that a child needs a mother and a father (again obviously to stop them becoming gay), and so on - all ignorant, unsubstantiated ravings of a group of people who believe in supernatural creators, angels, hell fire and other crazy stuff.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 12:52PM

henryporter wrote: »

I think tatranska's arguments on this thread thus far are typical of the backward and repressive views that the likes of Iona and Mothers and Fathers Matter are peddling - I'm a straight man and I'm offended by these attitudes, that homosexuality is perverse and unnatural, that it is almost picked up like a disease (therefore any gay people rearing children, or any child being educated about such matters will suddenly turn gay), that a child needs a mother and a father (again obviously to stop them becoming gay), and so on - all ignorant, unsubstantiated ravings of a group of people who believe in supernatural creators, angels, hell fire and other crazy stuff.

Well I am happy for people to hold such views. Im just not happy to have them imposed on me.

uck51js9zml2yt · 30-04-2015 01:01PM

henryporter wrote: »

I think tatranska's arguments on this thread thus far are typical of the backward and repressive views that the likes of Iona and Mothers and Fathers Matter are peddling - I'm a straight man and I'm offended by these attitudes, that homosexuality is perverse and unnatural, that it is almost picked up like a disease (therefore any gay people rearing children, or any child being educated about such matters will suddenly turn gay), that a child needs a mother and a father (again obviously to stop them becoming gay), and so on - all ignorant, unsubstantiated ravings of a group of people who believe in supernatural creators, angels, hell fire and other crazy stuff.

I also believe the earth is flat. The sun revolves around the earth and there are sea monsters beyond the horizon.
That there is a difference between men and women and their is a distinction.

Never said it was a disease... You did and I never once mentioned gay parents or catching it.

A lot of you seem to be concerned with my lack of response... Some of us have jobs to attend to.

Since we live in a democracy I'm still allowed believe what I want and vote in accordance with that belief.
The yes campaign seem to have a problem with that concept.
You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

sydthebeat · 30-04-2015 01:07PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

The yes campaign seem to have a problem with that concept.
You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

but do you not accept that a yes vote will affect you IN NO WAY POSSIBLE whatsoever

and that by voting no you are foisting you own religious beliefs onto others in a CIVIL matter?

Maximus Alexander · 30-04-2015 01:07PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

Yes. Can you do that please?

SireOfSeth · 30-04-2015 01:09PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

I also believe the earth is flat. The sun revolves around the earth and there are sea monsters beyond the horizon.
That there is a difference between men and women and their is a distinction.

Never said it was a disease... You did and I never once mentioned gay parents or catching it.

A lot of you seem to be concerned with my lack of response... Some of us have jobs to attend to.

Since we live in a democracy I'm still allowed believe what I want and vote in accordance with that belief.
The yes campaign seem to have a problem with that concept.
You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

I believe that the point henryporter was making, was that you seem to be making your decisions based on an ancient book. Fair enough, if those beliefs only impact yourself, however, you are forcing your beliefs on others.

bopper · 30-04-2015 01:15PM

I think this thread is going off the rails a bit. If someone is basing their vote in this referendum on the Bible, then arguing with them is as useful as banging your head against a brick wall. There is no point reasoning with crazy.

The thread should be kept as a place to voice logical concerns and reasons for voting either way. A debate on the Bible will just go around in circles and never lead anywhere.

MrWalsh · 30-04-2015 01:17PM

SireOfSeth wrote: »

Fair enough, if those beliefs only impact yourself, however, you are forcing your beliefs on others.

Can you answer this please tatranska?

How is it ok to force others to live according to your beliefs?

galljga1 · 30-04-2015 02:04PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

I also believe the earth is flat. The sun revolves around the earth and there are sea monsters beyond the horizon.
That there is a difference between men and women and their is a distinction.

Never said it was a disease... You did and I never once mentioned gay parents or catching it.

A lot of you seem to be concerned with my lack of response... Some of us have jobs to attend to.

Since we live in a democracy I'm still allowed believe what I want and vote in accordance with that belief.
The yes campaign seem to have a problem with that concept.
You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

That would be fine, thanks but I do hope we get good weather, kids off and all that.

BoatMad · 30-04-2015 02:42PM

Winston Tart Rain wrote: »

I also believe the earth is flat. The sun revolves around the earth and there are sea monsters beyond the horizon.
That there is a difference between men and women and their is a distinction.

Never said it was a disease... You did and I never once mentioned gay parents or catching it.

A lot of you seem to be concerned with my lack of response... Some of us have jobs to attend to.

Since we live in a democracy I'm still allowed believe what I want and vote in accordance with that belief.
The yes campaign seem to have a problem with that concept.
You would prefer i Leave my belief with my wet umbrella at the door of the polling station and vote the way you tell me.

i would draw your attention to this quote

“Of course, the aim of a constitutional democracy is to safeguard the rights of the minority and avoid the tyranny of the majority. ”
― Cornel West

a proper functioning society is perhaps measured by what it does for its minorities not what it does to confirm its own views.

Ash.J.Williams · 30-04-2015 02:49PM

henryporter wrote: »

I think tatranska's arguments on this thread thus far are typical of the backward and repressive views that the likes of Iona and Mothers and Fathers Matter are peddling - I'm a straight man and I'm offended by these attitudes, that homosexuality is perverse and unnatural, that it is almost picked up like a disease (therefore any gay people rearing children, or any child being educated about such matters will suddenly turn gay), that a child needs a mother and a father (again obviously to stop them becoming gay), and so on - all ignorant, unsubstantiated ravings of a group of people who believe in supernatural creators, angels, hell fire and other crazy stuff.

funny you mention that....his/hers views in "teaching gay in school" is the same view held by the burke family associated with one of those mothers and fathers groups....

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 30-04-2015 05:41PM

sydthebeat wrote: »

why is 'god' even coming into this debate on civil marriage?

In fairness, the Constitution claims that the Holy Trinity is the only valid source of human authority, so it's actually hard to say "that has no place in our discussion".

Now, a referendum removing all residual references to god would be interesting.

sydthebeat · 30-04-2015 10:27PM

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

In fairness, the Constitution claims that the Holy Trinity is the only valid source of human authority, so it's actually hard to say "that has no place in our discussion".

Now, a referendum removing all residual references to god would be interesting.

a discussion about 'god' HAS absolutely no place in this debate, as there is no mention of god or religion in the article of the constitution we are being asked to amend.

so ill ask tatranska again:

do you not accept that a yes vote will affect you IN NO WAY POSSIBLE whatsoever

and that by voting no you are foisting you own religious beliefs onto others in a CIVIL matter?

Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction

Comments