Dairy Farming General

Greengrass1 · 28-04-2015 09:56AM

whelan2 wrote: »

whats wrong that you have to jump through hoops to get a small loan and lads are getting massive money thrown at them like that? I would be interested to know what banks these guys are with

I was talking to a lad recently had 50 sucklers was wanting to sell and buy incalf heifers in there place had straw bedded sheds for there first winter and had a shed to put a parlour in.
All he wanted was 20k to buy a S/h parlour he seen and bulk tank and put in a bit of a roadway.

That guy would have been a pretty safe bet and he was playing it safe himself but was refused a loan from bank.
then he tells me a man he knows put up a whopper of a 20 unit parlour and 100 cubicles and then hadn't the money to buy cows and this lad was going from tillage to cows.
Pure madness.

whelan2 · 28-04-2015 09:58AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I was talking to a lad recently had 50 sucklers was wanting to sell and buy incalf heifers in there place had straw bedded sheds for there first winter and had a shed to put a parlour in.
All he wanted was 20k to buy a S/h parlour he seen and bulk tank and put in a bit of a roadway.

That guy would have been a pretty safe bet and he was playing it safe himself but was refused a loan from bank.
then he tells me a man he knows put up a whopper of a 20 unit parlour and 100 cubicles and then hadn't the money to buy cows and this lad was going from tillage to cows.
Pure madness.

be brave;)

RightTurnClyde · 28-04-2015 10:06AM

WheatenBriar wrote: »

Piece on BBC radio 4's today programme this morning on dairy farming in the UK.
They reported from Monmouthshire where dairy farmers are going out of business due to a milk price below the cost of production.
The outlook for milk price is poor with more and more farmers there just shutting up shop.

Quite a depressing piece given so much money being spent here in Ireland on expansion.
Meanwhile here in Ireland,I was told of a set up not a million miles from me with a brand new milking parlour,a new tractor and this same farmer owes his vet 25k and is not paying it :eek: he apparently isn't able to
There's a lot of crazy stuff going on that's just not being talked about.
Don't go mad people

What jumps out at me there, is what's going on on that farm that the vets bill has come to 25k...or what's going on that the vet let it roll up to 25k.
But ha there is some crazy stuff going on.
A new entrant near me, that hasn't over done the spending, but it's a greenfield site with 150 heifers on OC's and a basic Parlour, is starting to find the going tough already. 150 calves bought 2 years ago. 142 made it to the parlour. Another 10 or 12 should be culled, theyre in very bad BCS, 2or3 quarters or milking very badly. He has no maidens lined up for this year, and won't (can't) spend the money on them to buy them. And has 35 Fr heifer calves for after using sexed semen. He had to dump milk till the 1st of April and was on OAD till then. On TAD now, but they're milking 20 litres at 3.74f and 3.52p. No meal in the Parlour because Grass has got away on him, as a result heifers are like fcukers in the Parlour, and he needs 2 people in the pit at all times.
Poor fcuker is really suffering.

mahoney_j · 28-04-2015 10:55AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I was talking to a lad recently had 50 sucklers was wanting to sell and buy incalf heifers in there place had straw bedded sheds for there first winter and had a shed to put a parlour in.
All he wanted was 20k to buy a S/h parlour he seen and bulk tank and put in a bit of a roadway.

That guy would have been a pretty safe bet and he was playing it safe himself but was refused a loan from bank.
then he tells me a man he knows put up a whopper of a 20 unit parlour and 100 cubicles and then hadn't the money to buy cows and this lad was going from tillage to cows.
Pure madness.

All about repayment capacity gg,the guy with more land (security)and expansion capability was probably seen as a safer bet rather than the smaller guy who may borrow small now but have to come back for more and can only grow to a small medium scale.around here it is guys with clear long term targets re expansion and front loading debt that are getting approval.its nearly always cheaper when doing a project to do it all from start rather than doing bits every year and going back to banks looking for top ups and overdraft extensions.saying that I've seen some fairly sizeable greenfield start ups that I wouldn't like to be repaying saying that though no body knows someone else's financial situation so s bit unfair to criticise what a lad is doing based on speculation or idle gossip

freedominacup · 28-04-2015 11:11AM

RightTurnClyde wrote: »

What jumps out at me there, is what's going on on that farm that the vets bill has come to 25k...or what's going on that the vet let it roll up to 25k.
But ha there is some crazy stuff going on.
A new entrant near me, that hasn't over done the spending, but it's a greenfield site with 150 heifers on OC's and a basic Parlour, is starting to find the going tough already. 150 calves bought 2 years ago. 142 made it to the parlour. Another 10 or 12 should be culled, theyre in very bad BCS, 2or3 quarters or milking very badly. He has no maidens lined up for this year, and won't (can't) spend the money on them to buy them. And has 35 Fr heifer calves for after using sexed semen. He had to dump milk till the 1st of April and was on OAD till then. On TAD now, but they're milking 20 litres at 3.74f and 3.52p. No meal in the Parlour because Grass has got away on him, as a result heifers are like fcukers in the Parlour, and he needs 2 people in the pit at all times.
Poor fcuker is really suffering.

You seem to know him reasonably well. His teagasc adviser isn't going to hold his hands up yet and admit that everything isn't going to plan. Tell him to cull the culls and put a bit of condition on them. Sell as soon as they are in reasonable order and use cash to buy maidens/freshly served heifers. He needs to stop more silage now. He can cut less or no second cut later. One thing most new entrants who did it don't regret is having more winter forage than they thought they needed.

Give a small amount of meal. It will help him in all sorts of ways. Quieter parlour being the least of them. He needs his cows back in calf and bcs issues are going to be a hinderance to this.

Get grass under control and get cows back in calf. Cut his losses on the girls who should be culled. 142 out of 150 says he was doing well. Cash flow and the lack of it must be murdering him atm. In three weeks he'll have the equivalent of a double of cattle or 200 tonnes of grain hitting his account and that aspect of his problems will be easier to deal with. Plenty of guys have been over this course before. Most made it.

jaymla627 · 28-04-2015 11:16AM

freedominacup wrote: »

You seem to know him reasonably well. His teagasc adviser isn't going to hold his hands up yet and admit that everything isn't going to plan. Tell him to cull the culls and put a bit of condition on them. Sell as soon as they are in reasonable order and use cash to buy maidens/freshly served heifers. He needs to stop more silage now. He can cut less or no second cut later. One thing most new entrants who did it don't regret is having more winter forage than they thought they needed.

Give a small amount of meal. It will help him in all sorts of ways. Quieter parlour being the least of them. He needs his cows back in calf and bcs issues are going to be a hinderance to this.

Get grass under control and get cows back in calf. Cut his losses on the girls who should be culled. 142 out of 150 says he was doing well. Cash flow and the lack of it must be murdering him atm. In three weeks he'll have the equivalent of a double of cattle or 200 tonnes of grain hitting his account and that aspect of his problems will be easier to deal with. Plenty of guys have been over this course before. Most made it.

Their is probably that many lads out with their hands for money from his April cheque that he has a cheque at the door haha

kowtow · 28-04-2015 11:55AM

freedominacup wrote: »

You seem to know him reasonably well. His teagasc adviser isn't going to hold his hands up yet and admit that everything isn't going to plan. Tell him to cull the culls and put a bit of condition on them. Sell as soon as they are in reasonable order and use cash to buy maidens/freshly served heifers. He needs to stop more silage now. He can cut less or no second cut later. One thing most new entrants who did it don't regret is having more winter forage than they thought they needed.

Give a small amount of meal. It will help him in all sorts of ways. Quieter parlour being the least of them. He needs his cows back in calf and bcs issues are going to be a hinderance to this.

Get grass under control and get cows back in calf. Cut his losses on the girls who should be culled. 142 out of 150 says he was doing well. Cash flow and the lack of it must be murdering him atm. In three weeks he'll have the equivalent of a double of cattle or 200 tonnes of grain hitting his account and that aspect of his problems will be easier to deal with. Plenty of guys have been over this course before. Most made it.

What a super, sensible, reassuring post.

+ 1

mf240 · 28-04-2015 01:02PM

kowtow wrote: »

What a super, sensible, reassuring post.

+ 1

Yes great to see someone offer constructive advice and a bit of incouragement .

freedominacup · 28-04-2015 01:03PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Their is probably that many lads out with their hands for money from his April cheque that he has a cheque at the door haha

There might well be so all he can do is allocate his own wages, the bank and tell the rest they're getting X percent of what they were hoping for.

frazzledhome · 28-04-2015 02:01PM

freedominacup wrote: »

You seem to know him reasonably well. His teagasc adviser isn't going to hold his hands up yet and admit that everything isn't going to plan. Tell him to cull the culls and put a bit of condition on them. Sell as soon as they are in reasonable order and use cash to buy maidens/freshly served heifers. He needs to stop more silage now. He can cut less or no second cut later. One thing most new entrants who did it don't regret is having more winter forage than they thought they needed.

Give a small amount of meal. It will help him in all sorts of ways. Quieter parlour being the least of them. He needs his cows back in calf and bcs issues are going to be a hinderance to this.

Get grass under control and get cows back in calf. Cut his losses on the girls who should be culled. 142 out of 150 says he was doing well. Cash flow and the lack of it must be murdering him atm. In three weeks he'll have the equivalent of a double of cattle or 200 tonnes of grain hitting his account and that aspect of his problems will be easier to deal with. Plenty of guys have been over this course before. Most made it.

++1
Now there's a man who knows what he's talking about. Excellent advise and spot on with the cashflow diagnosis.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 29-04-2015 12:15PM

I called the vet for the first time this morning for a calving. Smallish cow losing condition for a month and had her dosed multiple times with little success. I handled her and found huge legs so called the vet.

Anyway, he pulled a massive calf, strained the jack nearly. Cow was ok and i milked her but the calf was so bad, the vet said to let him die in peace. Went out after a bite to eat and he was up, out on the roadway and sucking his mother.:)

He is being named Lazarus now.

Markcheese · 29-04-2015 12:45PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I was talking to a lad recently had 50 sucklers was wanting to sell and buy incalf heifers in there place had straw bedded sheds for there first winter and had a shed to put a parlour in.
All he wanted was 20k to buy a S/h parlour he seen and bulk tank and put in a bit of a roadway.

That guy would have been a pretty safe bet and he was playing it safe himself but was refused a loan from bank.
then he tells me a man he knows put up a whopper of a 20 unit parlour and 100 cubicles and then hadn't the money to buy cows and this lad was going from tillage to cows.
Pure madness.

Think I'd put in for 250,000 grand and give em back 230,000 ( as long as no penalty clause)

Markcheese · 29-04-2015 12:45PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I was talking to a lad recently had 50 sucklers was wanting to sell and buy incalf heifers in there place had straw bedded sheds for there first winter and had a shed to put a parlour in.
All he wanted was 20k to buy a S/h parlour he seen and bulk tank and put in a bit of a roadway.

That guy would have been a pretty safe bet and he was playing it safe himself but was refused a loan from bank.
then he tells me a man he knows put up a whopper of a 20 unit parlour and 100 cubicles and then hadn't the money to buy cows and this lad was going from tillage to cows.
Pure madness.

Think I'd put in for 250,000 grand and give em back 230,000 ( as long as no penalty clause)

Greengrass1 · 29-04-2015 03:12PM

Was told today at dg I was making marginal litres. 28l at 3.64 p 4.74 f
3kg meal 250/t. Has dropped it to 2kg but milk dropped to 25/26l but that also coincided with making cows eat out ground to reseed

Sam Kade · 29-04-2015 08:06PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Their is probably that many lads out with their hands for money from his April cheque that he has a cheque at the door haha

I'd imagine after 2 years buying 150 calves and rearing them to calve down that there would be some scary bills built up as there would be nothing coming in off the farm for those 2 years.

jaymla627 · 29-04-2015 08:14PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was told today at dg I was making marginal litres. 28l at 3.64 p 4.74 f
3kg meal 250/t. Has dropped it to 2kg but milk dropped to 25/26l but that also coincided with making cows eat out ground to reseed

That advice would go in one ear with me and out the other with those solids your getting over 35 cent a litre for your milk so even at a return of 1 to 1 from meal your clearing 10 cent a litre.
Not to forget your also getting mg into your cows along with helping cow condition at the the most important time of year, say you dropped the meal and went out the next morning to find a cow turned up dead in the paddock with grass tetany what would their words of wisdom be then

Greengrass1 · 29-04-2015 08:19PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

That advice would go in one ear with me and out the other with those solids your getting over 35 cent a litre for your milk so even at a return of 1 to 1 from meal your clearing 10 cent a litre.
Not to fotget your also getting mg into your cows along with helping cow condition at the the most important time of year, say you dropped the meal and went out the next morning to find a cow turned up dead in the paddock with grass tetanus what would their words of wisdom be then

Ah he did say if it's there for tetany that's different
we have a way of putting mg through water here aswell as farm Being off the scale on mag. I'm not gonna say it because I'll jinx myself

freedominacup · 29-04-2015 08:20PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

That advice would go in one ear with me and out the other with those solids your getting over 35 cent a litre for your milk so even at a return of 1 to 1 from meal your clearing 10 cent a litre.
Not to fotget your also getting mg into your cows along with helping cow condition at the the most important time of year, say you dropped the meal and went out the next morning to find a cow turned up dead in the paddock with grass tetanus what would their words of wisdom be then

Been there done that, words of wisdom, shur wouldn't she have paid for a nice bit of meal........

jaymla627 · 29-04-2015 08:29PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Been there done that, words of wisdom, shur wouldn't she have paid for a nice bit of meal........

Theirs a guy over near roscrea with a large herd of jersey cross cows probably the tightest man you ever met when it came to his cows, back in 2012 his cows where dropping with tetany for sport still didnt feed meal just went out with bottles of mag every morning inhand to treat the downer cows crazy mindset to have

Timmaay · 29-04-2015 08:29PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Was told today at dg I was making marginal litres. 28l at 3.64 p 4.74 f
3kg meal 250/t. Has dropped it to 2kg but milk dropped to 25/26l but that also coincided with making cows eat out ground to reseed

Utterly nothing at all wrong with marginal litres surely, once you are still maximising the litres from grass and them marginal litres aren't effecting your grass based system, which at 28l and only 3kg of nuts I'd say neither is happening with ya.

degetme · 29-04-2015 08:33PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Theirs a guy over near roscrea with a large herd of jersey cross cows probably the tightest man you ever met when it came to his cows, back in 2012 his cows where dropping with tetany for sport still didnt feed meal just went out with bottles of mag every morning inhand to treat the downer cows crazy mindset to have

Madness

jaymla627 · 29-04-2015 08:40PM

degetme wrote: »

Madness

Funny thing is this lad is a teasagc poster boy with one of the top ebi herds in Ireland, the best line I heard him tell us was how he had a deal done with the knacker to take the dead jersey bulls by the weight instead of per animal was delighted with himself....
Bull calves on the farm didnt get biestings either they where either lucky enough to have got a suck of the mother before been took away our left to die was fit to pull the head of the farm manager at the time when he told us that piece of info

mf240 · 29-04-2015 08:50PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Funny thing is this lad is a teasagc poster boy with one of the top ebi herds in Ireland, the best line I heard him tell us was how he had a deal done with the knacker to take the dead jersey bulls by the weight instead of per animal was delighted with himself....
Bull calves on the farm didnt get biestings either they where either lucky enough to have got a suck of the mother before been took away our left to die was fit to pull the head of the farm manager at the time when he told us that piece of info

Hate that ****e. Fcuking dickhead.

Lads like that should be working in a bank and not with animals.

jaymla627 · 29-04-2015 08:58PM

mf240 wrote: »

Hate that ****e. Fcuking dickhead.

Lads like that should be working in a bank and not with animals.

It would turn your stomach alright, but that the new Zealand bobby calf way of thinking, and he was set in this mindset...amazing how lads like this are never paid a visit by someone from the department in the middle of spring when it obvious that the number of calf deaths would be way above average

mahoney_j · 29-04-2015 09:05PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

It would turn your stomach alright, but that the new Zealand bobby calf way of thinking, and he was set in this mindset...amazing how lads like this are never paid a visit by someone from the department in the middle of spring when it obvious that the number of calf deaths would be way above average

Roscrea is a fair auld trip from New Zealand ,someone should get that lad a map and explain that to him

mahoney_j · 29-04-2015 09:09PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ah he did say if it's there for tetany that's different
we have a way of putting mg through water here aswell as farm Being off the scale on mag. I'm not gonna say it because I'll jinx myself

You shouldn't also forget gg ,you have autumn calvers,je jex and hol fr in the herd .theres going to be a fair variation in yields and energy requirements through ur cow.at an average of 28 Ltrs they need meal as you probably have individual cows doing over 40 Ltrs all the way back to 20 .3 kg meal would probably be minimum feed.

jaymla627 · 29-04-2015 09:11PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Roscrea is a fair auld trip from New Zealand ,someone should get that lad a map and explain that to him

Slowly coming around haha, the out wintering pad got replaced by outdoor cubicles this year last I heard

Greengrass1 · 29-04-2015 09:24PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

You shouldn't also forget gg ,you have autumn calvers,je jex and hol fr in the herd .theres going to be a fair variation in yields and energy requirements through ur cow.at an average of 28 Ltrs they need meal as you probably have individual cows doing over 40 Ltrs all the way back to 20 .3 kg meal would probably be minimum feed.

your right serious difference in yields feed to yeild would save alot of meal. My autumn calvers need no meal doing about 20l I reckon and putting on alot of condition already
but think we're going with batch feeders. easy change them if we ever decide too

degetme · 29-04-2015 09:37PM

Got acid buff added to meal there for five euro a tonne.Tis worth a go to see will it improve bfat constituents.

mahoney_j · 29-04-2015 09:46PM

degetme wrote: »

Got acid buff added to meal there for five euro a tonne.Tis worth a go to see will it improve bfat constituents.

Tried it last year and worked but no where near as good as the megafat is this year.last fat result 3.95

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