Is it time to increase the dole?

davo2001 · 29-04-2015 02:45PM

PutDownArtist wrote: »

You can't have restoration of public service pay without doing the same to the dole.

It's unfair and illogical.

You clearly don't know or understand what logic is then.

Mickey H · 29-04-2015 03:05PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

What about non-smokers that cost the HSE a lot of money??

What about drinkers, people that eat to much, people that eat fatty foods, sports people that keep getting injured, damn drivers that crash more than once ?

It's a proven statistic that 100% of non smokers die.

Smokers probably die sooner but in their time they'll contribute more to the Tax coffers due to one of the highest tobacco taxes in the world.

How did this get mixed up in a dole thread!!

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Nah, just smokers. Fck em.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDgFrVCkGxE

DamagedTrax · 29-04-2015 03:08PM

not yet wrote: »

How would you handle someone who is 20 years on the dole......?

cutting their money wont help, it will just remove small areas of comfort from their (and possibly their family's) lives. someone 20 years on the dole has forgotten how to even think about getting work. i was a number of years on it and it took me a lot longer than i'd have liked to get back working again. i can only imagine how hard it would be for some long terms.

i'd be more concerned about the way public money is being spent to help get these people back to work than worrying about how putting a few extra quid in their pockets could make them complacent. they're already long term recipients, taking a % of their money away doesnt magically change that.

why does it always come down to pettiness about what other people have or have not got? if the people we elect spent our taxes properly, we wouldnt have to worry about long term recipients as they would be few and far between. but instead they waste money on slave labour schemes and turn us on each other so its actually the SW recipient that becomes the bogey man.

**i am aware there are plenty of actual scroungers on the dole. but to make the ones in need suffer for the actions of others is not right.

thebeerbaron · 29-04-2015 03:13PM

Should not be increased. As the economy is improving perhaps a decrease could be used for increasing the threshold for income tax to further make work appear more attractive.

mynamejeff · 29-04-2015 03:55PM

dole is the only thing that didnt get cut , why not restore the pay of those who actually work first

PutDownArtist · 29-04-2015 04:00PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

dole is the only thing that didnt get cut , why not restore the pay of those who actually work first

Shows how much you know, Jeffy.:rolleyes:

noway12345 · 29-04-2015 04:03PM

Do people not think that the under 25's should have the proper dole amount? Forcing them to emigrate is hardly ideal.

draiochtanois · 29-04-2015 04:04PM

This post has been deleted.

Hans Bricks · 29-04-2015 04:06PM

Take a trip to the "middle class" thread and listen to disgruntled working class wannabes bitterly condemn the fact that they're the "silent majority", on these threads. :rolleyes:

aunt aggie · 29-04-2015 04:06PM

It shouldn't be increased yet but they should restore some of the cuts to people under 25. Their dole has been cut to a lot less than 188. Very few people in that age group are on the dole by choice. They just left school when the economy was at its worst.

noway12345 · 29-04-2015 04:07PM

Hans Bricks wrote: »

Take a trip to the "middle class" thread and listen to disgruntled working class wannabes bitterly condemn the fact that they're the "silent majority", on these threads. :rolleyes:

That's not what's happening there at all!

Jon Stark · 29-04-2015 04:39PM

I don't know about raising it but I'll never get my head around people almost gleefully demanding that it be slashed or that it be given through "stamps".

I'm pretty sure people that have such opinions haven't an actual clue and have never had the misfortune of having to depend on the dole.

I'm working for a few years now thankfully but before that I was on the dole for quite a while, so I've seen the various different faces to unemployment.

The student.

The guy or woman well into their forties who have been let go and who struggle to get back in the hunt up against younger pups.

The bloke or woman whose confidence is absolutely shot who simply falter in interviews.

The Young fellas and women who never got the breaks others got who just struggle to find their own place in life where they have something to offer.

And then of course you have the down and outs who spend their day in the boozer and the shams who just like to cause trouble (the former unfairly get thrown in with the latter IMO).

So when I see someone getting into their little rants in AH about the dole, I tend to role my eyes. Why? Because I know that when they're having their rant all they are thinking about are the lads in the pub and the shams causing trouble, and not about all the other people who are on welfare. You know, the majority of people who are honest.

And finally, tbh, I couldn't even give a fcuk about what the lads in the boozer do. I've seen it and it's a sad existence. These people have simply lost all value to themselves and to society so if having a few pints makes their lives a little bit more bearable then I've no problem with that.

Constant Curiosity · 30-04-2015 12:05PM

problem i had after being redundant after i moved to a new town, was that once you have a gap showing you were unemployed in your CV the hiring manager always looks at you with a skeptical look, and no call then... that's when you need to know people, and those saying Ireland works not like that have no clue, or just were lucky... I believe bigger cities are different, but in places like Sligo, you need to know someone's cousins sheep horses nephew to get a job, yes, yes you do...

BobMc · 30-04-2015 12:10PM

No, i think its high time to discourage welfare and more back to work, giving more money, I work my ass off and I could do with more and no chance of that happening (family business) we've struggled through last 7/8 years and I took a reduction
in my wage that nearly killed my poor dad the thouhght of taking it off me, I've not had an increase since then 8 yrs ago.

UCDVet · 30-04-2015 12:40PM

No joke, if I were eligible for the dole, I'd quit my job today and sign up.

DoYouEvenLift · 30-04-2015 12:42PM

With the rise of job opportunities it should be decreased if anything.

Geuze · 30-04-2015 12:45PM

JSB should be increased, but JSA should be abolished.

JSB duration to be increased from 6/9 months to 12 months, with up to 24 months available during recessions.

JSB rates to be linked to former wages, as in most other countries.

JSA "dole", to be abolished and replaced with work - all long-term unemployed to be offered optional paid work, maybe 20-30 hours per week.

Plenty of useful work to be done out there.

Constant Curiosity · 30-04-2015 12:50PM

BobMc wrote: »

No, i think its high time to discourage welfare and more back to work, giving more money, I work my ass off and I could do with more and no chance of that happening (family business) we've struggled through last 7/8 years and I took a reduction
in my wage that nearly killed my poor dad the thouhght of taking it off me, I've not had an increase since then 8 yrs ago.

how is this relevant to social welfare system? or you are one of those people who don't understand the economy and system and just blame it on the dole etc? cmon... small business struggle not because of social welfare payment scheme, that's absurd... if what you should be blaming banks and government spending, im sorry you hard work isn't paying off but you are not alone

Chain Smoker · 30-04-2015 12:53PM

The discrepancy between people aged 26 or older and under 25s needs to be addressed in some way imo, don't get why it isn't brought up at all.

A newly signed on 24 year old graduate doing jobbridge will still only be earning €150 per week, in a country where the economy operates as though everyone's earning at least €188p/w. The old system with €144 for 22-25 year olds made a lot more sense to me, the current setup seems like it's designed to encourage graduates to emigrate (when you've got our tax rates coupled with a public service that's being cut to the bone, it's not as though they need more incentive to leave and there's precious little to lure them back once they're gone beyond social ties).

PutDownArtist · 30-04-2015 01:03PM

BobMc wrote: »

No, i think its high time to discourage welfare and more back to work, giving more money, I work my ass off and I could do with more and no chance of that happening (family business) we've struggled through last 7/8 years and I took a reduction
in my wage that nearly killed my poor dad the thouhght of taking it off me, I've not had an increase since then 8 yrs ago.

Now there's a surprise.:rolleyes:

whats newxt · 30-04-2015 01:23PM

Am i the only one that thinks people should be invested in? They should increase the dole for the first year then gradually reduce it the following year and so on.

Duiske · 30-04-2015 01:24PM

If there comes a time when wage increases cause an uptick in inflation, then thats the time to look at Social Welfare increases. At the moment the dole is sufficient to get by on and thats what its designed for, a cushion during times of unemployment. Raising it now would just narrow the gap between dole and paid employment and make employment less attractive. Actually, if finances allow, I think an argument could be made to increase payments slightly for those under 25 to allow for costs associated with job hunting.

c_man · 30-04-2015 01:25PM

I'd rather see cuts to disability/carers reversed rather than a blanket raise on the dole.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 30-04-2015 01:27PM

Very easy for me, and a lot of other working people, to say no. When you are on social welfare, it's another thing.

Is it possible to live on €188 a week? Yes.

Is it difficult? Yes, very difficult in a lot of circumstances.

Should it be increased now? I don't believe now is the right time.

There should be more incentives to get peopl eto work (when jobs are available). I think the current system is quite lazy and very poorly managed.

VinLieger wrote: »

No its not, SW is one of things that has remained virtually unchanged the entire recession

What makes you say that? A reduction of 16 euro is quite a lot when you are talking about such little money.

Dole pre recession = €204
Dole now = €188
That's a reduction of 8.5%? Correct me if I am wrong, my maths sucks. There are other circumstances where you only get about half, I think this is depending on age. I am a little rusty on this but it has changed quite a lot since pre recession times.

animaal · 30-04-2015 01:29PM

Geuze wrote: »

JSB should be increased, but JSA should be abolished.

Definitely agree with you on JSB, but I think abolishing JSA would be a step too far.

It used to be said that PRSI isn't a tax, the "I" stands for *insurance*.
Well then, it should work like insurance. The more you pay in, the higher the benefit you receive for a limited period.

It should be a safety net to help you to maintain your financial responsibilities while you find another employment. I.e. you don't need a council house, you need help paying the mortgage.

Right now, there seems to be little difference in benefit between JSA nd JSB, In fact, it seems to be the opposite - if you suddenly lose your job, you don't immediately receive as many benefits as you would if you never worked. That's just wrong.

Idbatterim · 30-04-2015 01:40PM

not it isnt and if they want to increase it, implement a system where what is paid out is based on what you have paid in.

Any welfare, PS pay increases, tax decreases, should be done on merit. Not on a well the economy is improving we should all enjoy the same size share of the pie!

the aim should be to get back to "full employment" and reduce the marginal rate of tax, along with capital investment and hiring more Guards, SNA's etc, also something needs to be done asap about the housing crisis in Dublin...

jank · 30-04-2015 01:51PM

Zillah wrote: »

The dole isn't about just keeping someone alive. It is about keeping them engaged in the economy, helping their family keep their current home instead of enduring the upheaval of having to move. It's a stop gap against anyone sliding down the socio-economic ladder, because once you or your children go down, it is very very hard to get back up it. I would prefer a professional hold out on the dole looking for another job in their chosen profession rather than giving up and working minimum wage elsewhere, because in that case the only person who benefits is the man who begrudges the millionth of a penny they were getting from his pay check.

So, if the exchequer can afford it, then yes.

Post makes no sense. It has been proven statistically that someone in a job is much more likely to get another job. Anyway, we can't afford it. Not with a lack of infrastructure or people lying on trollies for days on end. Giving money to people on the dole is probably the least productive thing a government can do in terms of ROI.

riclad · 30-04-2015 02:48PM

people on the dole spend their money on rent ,food, gas bills etc in the local economy,
most things they buy are taxed at least at 20 per cent ,
or at least 50 per cent for cigarettes .
They don,t buy gold apple watches,or new iphones ,or shares in ibm, or set up a swiss bank account .
So 90 per cent of their money goes to local shops ,or business,es
which provide employment for local people .
IF you are on the dole ,its hard to save any money at all.
SO from the wider view dole money is just money put into the local economy,
And the amount of people on the dole is falling .
Maybe people on the dole could do 1 or 2 days working for a charity ,or
a self build company.
Theres a charity that builds housing for people on lower income, in dublin,
90 per cent of the work is done by ordinary people ,
trained in painting, plastering , roofing etc
The houses use basic materials ,designs so they can be built
by anyone ,eg people who are not professional carpenters ,builders .

There was a grand designs about this ,
50 people built houses in a year .
When the houses were all built they moved in to them.
They pay a fixed rent and the houses are owned by a charity .

MistyCheese · 30-04-2015 02:59PM

Yes, and give a free house in a nice area to everyone who has a kid. A decent car shall be given upon the presentation of a second childs birth certificate. Have a third child and you get an indoor swimming pool.

Yay! Free stuff!

riclad · 30-04-2015 03:12PM

1 or 2 days working on a building site per week would do no one no harm.
Could be good for morale ,build houses for charity.
I,M not saying give everyone on welfare a free house .
The housing could be for old people or people on disability allowance .

Is it time to increase the dole?

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