How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Ghost Buster · 29-04-2015 10:36AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

At no point does that say that a childless couple can not constitute a family and should not be afforded the same status or creditation.

41-2-2 is shamlessly sexist, and would point at an urgent need to be updated.

41-3-1 can be understood to support the motion.

41,2.2 means I need a huge pay increase! Yippeeeee

Ghost Buster · 29-04-2015 10:39AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Guessing its all routed from the same place Youth Defence and Iona get their cash ie......... the states

In my head I simply preface every "No" post, tweet or status with "I believe in talking snakes and......."
It helps.

Ash.J.Williams · 29-04-2015 10:59AM

i'm still recovering from yer man burke asking a chap on air to describe gay sex....To me that is a clear example of a man using the "no" campaign to mask underlying issues in his own head!

By the way Issac, Enoch and martina burke are all related....like the phelps family in the US!! I doubt very much they even have the support of the the rest of the NO brigade.

They were on joe duffy a while back (on the same show) and carried on as if they didn't know eachother!! Even joe seemed normal! "are you related??" "joe we don;t have to answer that sort of question" "well are ya or wha?"

wetfoot · 29-04-2015 11:11AM

In response to the people wondering what kind of real difference a marriage will make instead of a civil partnership, regardless of the issue of equality, the answer is a big difference.

I can only talk from my own perspective but I got married in the UK and as my mother likes to put it "she's married, properly married, not gay married, like Elton". The whole notion that I am married in exactly the same way as my straight brother is married, adds not only a legitimacy in the way people look at me but also has given me a confidence that has been surprising. I say surprising, because I wasn't expecting it. I'd always thought that I wouldn't mind being civil partnered.

Now, I say this as an out lesbian who also is a professional gay (not gay for pay but working in the LGBT sector) so it's not like anyone is ever surprised that I'm of the gay. But knowing that my marriage is the same as everyone else's marriage and has the same legal, moral and social standing is actually a big deal. I'm not gay married (civil partnership), I'm not special, I'm just a married woman who happens to have a wife. And the power of being able to say that to people in authority is astonishing and also disarming for anyone who might want to discriminate against me. They still can, in their head, but my absolutely equal marriage standing means that they can't in any overt way.

I don't throw the word 'wife' out like a challenge but each time I say it, it feels to me like all the years of ****e and abuse, overt and subtle, that I've been through were absolutely worth it. I have a wife. I am married. I am legally equal.

humanji · 29-04-2015 11:18AM

kylith wrote: »

Is that the "I have legitimate questions.... stuff that has nothing to do with the referendum.... but what about the people who want to discriminate?..."

I couldn't watch any longer.

Yeah, that's the one. I don't even mind that it's a specious no campaign ad, it's just it being a political ad on Youtube. I'm not sure why, but it just bothers me that I can't escape politics as easily as I could before.

galljga1 · 29-04-2015 11:18AM

wetfoot wrote: »

In response to the people wondering what kind of real difference a marriage will make instead of a civil partnership, regardless of the issue of equality, the answer is a big difference.

I can only talk from my own perspective but I got married in the UK and as my mother likes to put it "she's married, properly married, not gay married, like Elton". The whole notion that I am married in exactly the same way as my straight brother is married, adds not only a legitimacy in the way people look at me but also has given me a confidence that has been surprising. I say surprising, because I wasn't expecting it. I'd always thought that I wouldn't mind being civil partnered.

Now, I say this as an out lesbian who also is a professional gay (not gay for pay but working in the LGBT sector) so it's not like anyone is ever surprised that I'm of the gay. But knowing that my marriage is the same as everyone else's marriage and has the same legal, moral and social standing is actually a big deal. I'm not gay married (civil partnership), I'm not special, I'm just a married woman who happens to have a wife. And the power of being able to say that to people in authority is astonishing and also disarming for anyone who might want to discriminate against me. They still can, in their head, but my absolutely equal marriage standing means that they can't in any overt way.

I don't throw the word 'wife' out like a challenge but each time I say it, it feels to me like all the years of ****e and abuse, overt and subtle, that I've been through were absolutely worth it. I have a wife. I am married. I am legally equal.

I like the term "professional gay".
I know he is a professional ar$ehole but does it make "David Quinn" a "professional bigoted homophobe"?

Bannasidhe · 29-04-2015 11:22AM

galljga1 wrote: »

I know he is a professional ar$ehole but does it make "David Quinn" a "professional bigoted homophobe"?

I think you mean the hate that dare not speak it's name.

efb · 29-04-2015 11:38AM

I'm finding it tough sometimes it reminds me of when I was in the closet and all I could hear was the shifty voices

mzungu · 29-04-2015 11:40AM

humanji wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the Mothers and Fathers Matter ads that run before Youtube videos now? Apart from being suspicious about where the money for that comes from, it's bad enough to be bombarded with any political messages through posters, papers, tv and radio without having to deal with them when you want to watch a cat playing a piano.

Adblock is your friend there

galljga1 · 29-04-2015 11:43AM

mzungu wrote: »

Adblock is your friend there

I am tempted to remove Adblock just to see how preposterous the ad is....but no.

iDave · 29-04-2015 11:48AM

I knew months back this would be one of the most tedious and intellectually bankrupt referendum campaigns ever and the No side haven't disappointed.
Hurry up the 22nd so we can get this over and done with.

glic71rods46t0 · 29-04-2015 12:18PM

iDave wrote: »

I knew months back this would be one of the most tedious and intellectually bankrupt referendum campaigns ever and the No side haven't disappointed.
Hurry up the 22nd so we can get this over and done with.

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

PopePalpatine · 29-04-2015 12:22PM

When you're faced with this sort of bullshit, sometimes there's a limit as to how far you can stretch your patience.

VinLieger · 29-04-2015 12:27PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

You aren't being asked which side behaved the most respectful

Respectful debate is virtually impossible to have on this issue when your dealing with the major figures on the no side asking questions like "how do homosexuals have sex" and putting it forward as a valid topic for discussion in relation to this referendum

Maximus Alexander · 29-04-2015 12:32PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

I find the idea that you would countenance punishing thousands of loving couples across the country, because you don't approve of the behavior of some folks, fairly off-putting.

The only question you need to ask yourself is what kind of society do you want to live in? What kind of life do you want to help shape for yourself, the people in your community, your children, and future generations?

Is it one where people are made to feel like less because of a harmless preference that they are possessed of? One where color, or flair, or anything outside of the average is brushed under the carpet and treated with disdain? Or is it one where all flavours of people are accepted, and given a chance to pursue a fulfilling life on the same footing as their peers?

I don't think that disapproval at how some people have approached the campaign should sway your decision.

Bannasidhe · 29-04-2015 12:37PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

I'm sorry but comments like this infuriate me.

Every single day I read/hear that I am 'disordered', 'abnormal', 'made a lifestyle choice', akin to a child abuser - and that's the polite versions.
That my family is an 'experiment' and the result of my being 'selfish' and my son has 'psychological damage'.

And to cap it off - I am a part and parcel of a 'bully' campaign because some people express their fury at the lying bile spewed forth under the guise of 'free speech' and 'campaigning' - it is not free speech - it is hate speech.

Ohhh...I'm not going to vote for you to be treated as an equal Irish citizen because someone on 'your side' called a bigot a bigot. No equality unless you turn the other cheek and swallow a heap of hateful s*ite k.

FFS :mad:

*deep breath*... I honestly don't know how much longer I can maintain being Mz Nice Lesbian ....

ixoy · 29-04-2015 12:40PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting.

Because it can feel like you're under attack when posters question your worth as a person.

Why would a celebration of being granted equal access to marriage be off putting?! Of course there'd be celebrating and rightly so.

A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

I do think there's merit in a stronger campaign that challenges the claims made by the No side, such as the claims on civil partnership being enough or using children when that matter is unrelated. Undermine their arguments rather than the people would be a better approach that's not always taken.

K4t · 29-04-2015 12:41PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

A few things:

1. You're not voting for the yes SIDE, or the no SIDE. You're voting yes or no on the question of marriage equality for all. The behaviour and actions of either side especially should not influence your vote as someone who admits they "started off as a yes voter".

2. I'm not a member of the lgbt, nor I assume are you? But I would imagine it is something of a war for them when they face such backward thinking on a daily basis, not to mention a constant stream of lies and misinformation from the no side. It's hard for us to put ourselves in their shoes, but I do at least try, instead of criticising them for caring too much, and making silly accusations of bullying and name calling against them as a whole.

3. I don't believe anybody is calling older no voters bigots etc. What is in fact happening is that the no side and many no campaigners who are deliberately misinforming the public, including those older generations, with blatant lies and fear mongering, are being called out for what they are.

aloyisious · 29-04-2015 12:54PM

galljga1 wrote: »

I like the term "professional gay".
I know he is a professional ar$ehole but does it make "David Quinn" a "professional bigoted homophobe"?

Can one be a homophobe and not be bigoted?

osarusan · 29-04-2015 12:54PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes.

So, before, you clearly felt that two consenting adults should be allowed to get married, regardless of whether they were the same gender or not.

But now, you no longer clearly feel the same way on that issue?

The tone of some posters advocating a Yes vote actually caused you to waver regarding the issue of whether two adults should be allowed to get married regardless of gender?

Because that is what you are voting on, nothing else.

As an aside, if your position is 'shakeable' based on what either side is saying, have you not been shaken by the tone of what the No advocates are saying? Would such things as the 'sounds of sodomy' leaflet not have strengthened your resolve to vote Yes?

Links234 · 29-04-2015 12:59PM

Well this is sad... I guess some gay parents can still be crap

aloyisious · 29-04-2015 01:03PM

yvo8hzxb9fku3e wrote: »

I started off as a yes voter but would now describe myself as a soft yes. The behaviour of many on the yes side to resort to bullying and name calling is really putting me off. Respectful debate is in short supply. If this goes through it will be because the majority agreed to it. The yes side seem to think it's some sort of war or something and the thoughts of them celebrating a "victory" is offputting. The older generations are in the No camp (many of them anyways) and don't need to be told they're bigots etc. A campaign appealing to them rather than bullying them would be far more effective

Maybe this debate will fit the bill..... BTW, it's fifty nine (59) minutes long

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/he...iage-1.2192011

VinLieger · 29-04-2015 01:05PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Maybe this debate will fit the bill.....

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/he...iage-1.2192011

Before i listen will you please tell me am I gonna be infuriated by lies upon lies being spouted by breda as per the norm? And how effective is noels rebuttal of said lies, does he call her out and completely destroy them? I ask as I simply cannot listen to another iona rep and bigot spouting ****e and not being properly called on it

Bannasidhe · 29-04-2015 01:09PM

Links234 wrote: »

Well this is sad... I guess some gay parents can still be crap

Yes. They can. Human beings of all sexual orientations can be crap.

And some of the LGB community really needs to get over itself about the T but why did you post it in this thread cos, you know... nothing to do with the referendum...(and giving ammunition to certain persons....)

Links234 · 29-04-2015 01:18PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

(and giving ammunition to certain persons....)

I dunno about that, I can't imagine too many on the NO side claiming "See, if she had straight parents, they'd accept her!" I'd say it'd present more of a paradox for them.

Oh, btw... here's something that really deserves a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxDsx8HfXEk

Dan Jaman · 29-04-2015 01:23PM

I've been here 20 years. Little did I know that when I moved 300 miles westward I was also stepping back 50 years. Actually, that suited me at the time, as it gave me much-needed respite from the rat-race and my head some space to breathe.
However, now is the time for Ireland to drag itself into the latter half of the 20th Century, let alone the first part of the 21st.

kylith · 29-04-2015 01:26PM

Links234 wrote: »

I dunno about that, I can't imagine too many on the NO side claiming "See, if she had straight parents, they'd accept her!" I'd say it'd present more of a paradox for them.

Or, "See! This is what happens when you let gay people raise children! If he'd had straight parents he wouldn't have grown up thinking he's a woman". I'd say that that probably has a lot to do with her parents' attitude, that they're terrified that they'll be blamed for making their son so gay he's gone all the way round to female.

StewartGriffin · 29-04-2015 01:26PM

Dan Jaman wrote: »

I've been here 20 years. Little did I know that when I moved 300 miles westward I was also stepping back 50 years. Actually, that suited me at the time, as it gave me much-needed respite from the rat-race and my head some space to breathe.
However, now is the time for Ireland to drag itself into the latter half of the 20th Century, let alone the first part of the 21st.

Who had SSM in 1951?