Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair enough your opinion but look I'm not surprised from day one you thought this management were fine, even last year all concerns at midfield you said dint be harsh best cork have, regards dualism you tried to convince management knew what they were doing, Liam shorten, Hayes driscoll etc etc are senior elite players
The one player your spot on regards outstanding Vaughan will never get much time here as unfortunately this set up carries two working half forwards


I respect your opinion totally but look your imo incorrect

I know your no fan of Clyda rovers as you once said they were poor football in cork but look their classic example and drom in limerick where have little football ability compared others yet always performance and beat other teams with more resources as the organisation dogged belief the resilience and good defence like great great castle haven all had management that got every last inch out of them


Blame the players again you do but you fail to see hard work, unity comes from management instill that
Cork ladies footballers summed it up wonderfully, no belief in current management and going round in circles
Yet demanded new manager and look what happened they built a legacy
France in rugby classic example loads talent but poor manager so don't play as a team


One sign of bad management at any level is when you see individuals playing as only individual and not team effort and that means management are not effective just look at cork under twenty one hurling the last few years


Donegal did they or did they not with ten or eleven same team win all Ireland yet humiliation to armagh two years before
Now if it's nothing to do with management or tactics why did donegal show no interest that day v armagh yet now year later won ulster and then year later won all Ireland??

Picking lads out of positions is not players fault


Look at cork v Galway under Denis Walsh another humiliation
Now tell me please a year later were contesting an all Ireland Semi final and competing
Explain the difference please
Clear as day management that simple
Ask any astute kerry fan difference between kerry minor last year and year before its they replaced the poor micky ned who's good school coach be fair with the great great jack o Connor

slingerz wrote: »

You again fail to read what is written down. I laid the blame as 50/50 between the management and players. If as a player you cannot put in the effort on the field and show the required heart then the greatest tactican in the world wouldnt do. your messiah in ned english his whole game plan is built aruond hard running and hard work so even if he was on the line last sunday they wouldnt have done.

you are very quick to knock and slate players without ever putting forward viable alternatives. if you had your way we'd only take the field with the bare 15. how abuot you put forward some examples of players that are not involved in the panel at present and we will all comment on their suitability then???

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I respect you view as always but I hsve to disagree

Anyone know here my team I think I have named it numerous times in the last four days, I apologise but have no intention rewriting it for you, look back I said it
I don't sit on the fence I posted before Sunday in fact Thursday night this was likely to happen and I have consistently as many posters will acknowledge be fair me highlights from day one constantly all problems here


I simply for the sheer love of cork football that I respect with all my heart refused to belive in false dawn praise the manager one game slate him the next
I said even in January do not judge cork kerry league and said before cork played donegal it would be a false dawn and I actually posted half time the same



I unfortunately don't know your thinking of cork the last few month as you haven't told us your views before games so I'd like to know your team please now going forward and your thoughts on management
I respect your view regards English but it's way off as I'm sure many fans know in for all your critsom him he coaches ucc waterford, Clyda duhslloe and drom Broadford and got every inch out Clyda to win and also drom won munster club title and when he teams play defensive they actually conceded less

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I actually done this post this week and prove it I mentioned here I had long post but holding off post it last week in i felt lead up national final some may seem it very negative and usual stuff be said
I held off
I post it now as lot it imo relevance cork problems



This is not hurler on dtich view as any one here knows I mentioned in shorter version lot worries I had cork football last two weeks in posts that mentioned here
Here is just more in depth assement

There was many an article from last year in the media that imo shows how cork were looking good but meant to be evolving but never did
I remember reading one after derry were beaten by a point at home yet derry got two goals
The key was the point how as good as cork were they allowed a poor derry back in to the game

My point is look last year it looked rosy when it wasn't as weak aera were not solved imo
I have a huge worry so far in year and half in cork management get carried away with what team doesn't good and doesn't focus on what they do bad or else it's a case they do but dont actually have the coaching skillset to fix it

Now fast forward a year, beaten by donegal, edged past Tyrone and monaghan due to late burst but only just
Hurley this league like o Neill have been just as good last year , problem is when in championship they are starved of possession
Here last year it was said cork were conceding too much but cork were cork too attack minded
It was ignored by management then

Huge huge concerns is talks about cork blankets , defenders speak about defence evolving against a ponderous derry conceded too much we hear last week lessons must be learned from cuthbert defending wise.
Again credit due he spoke after donegal about conceding too much but what is he going to do to solve it?!???

Management has to take responsibility for this than preach to the player's improve when he picks too attack minded half back like in driscoll dorman and clancy with no defender with the mindset of the mind a house defender , picks outstanding attacking half back corner back and the defence conceded twenty points again that showed zero improvements from V derry who an awful derry opened cork up at will and allow for under standable cork had little interest in the game,the level of defending stills was horror , and a week later ten points in the ist half that even donegal fans on their thread were surprised they scored so much so fast so imo cork management must drop talking the talk and walk the walk

What is talking about defensive structure being need of improvements when we're clearly is off in art of defending as it's like basketball at times in no context or really intensity with cork and cork have zero balance at half back but brilliant attacking players
Cadogan is played out of positions when he'll be needed at full v Donaghey so wouldn't cork be better served playing him there and shields also and half back line of loughrey,clancy and the other chancy possibly so cork defence is getting comfortable as a unit and develop cohesive and an understanding
I fully understand and appreciate cuthbert is right cork need adaptable players in the middle eight but imo playing best man markers in best positions surrounded by a blanket surely is better than playing two half backs corner back like Sunday

Dorman has been terrific but it's a straight choice between him and loughrey imo for one position as two can't be accommodated at half back as too attack minded, loughrey getting a tentative vote as he is more experienced and cork need that v kerry and once he's defensive duty is in not defend space and one v one he's actually quite good

Collins imo caught between playing half forwards In defence role and midfield doesnt know when to hold and sweep and moved from pillar to post understandbly he is more covering as a sweeper as effectively as he should

Cork last year conceded 11-117 approx in the league playing attack minded football
This year is improvement on last year with 7-109 or so approx conceded by 18 points but imo hardly spectacular when cork meant be defensive from attack last year
Around two point average or so improvement per game, but look at Dublin this year
Last year kerry had in the league two real targets, focus on the defence and introduce a few young players
They did and had the best defensive record last year league so they knew they had a system for the championship
Like cork they had to go defensive but by the end of the league they had one
Dublin like kerry this year had to do the same and they have a defensive structure
Cork had to do the same but let's call it as it is its appalling defence compared to Dublin yet both started the same time
So it imo shows coaching and selection players being picked is a concern as Dublin are improving it cork aren't
Dublin are still looking for a centre back but there still better defensive style and when find a centre back they will be very hard to break down
Cork unlike Dublin while still looking for a centre back imo crucially not in management eyes as they seem to think the half back unit is fine at present

Cork scored around 11-128 up to the this point last, years this year 14-100 so while cork are only 19 or so points off this year my point that's significant is cork were scoring free flowing in championship last year and despite setting world alight in league football come championship it wasn't much good as in order to score well everything else that changed in the modern game they one thing that nevertheless has or never will is you actually need possession to score just like a car need fuel , a plant need water , a car needs fuel , to score you need possession
Cork were starved of this this years and unfortunately I fear despite wonderful forward in hurley and o Neill cork won't get enough ball to score
The space that cork attacked donegal and kerry up the middle this league and got goals is a FALSE FALSE DAWN as both counties fans tell your none of the two had any interest in the league and compare donegal in Ballybofey to croke park and Christ above a blind man can see the difference
That day as cork will find in championship v donegal were cynical in slowing down the game tempo and stop cork momentum and hit everything that moved with fair intensity and once the game becomes slow and middle space is closed it stops cork running through from half back real real problems exist as decision making and creativity from half forward is way way off required imo to break the blanket as come championship they will be no space in the middle third

In this times interview he spoke about cork opening up donegal a lot http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/brian-cuthbert-happy-for-cork-to-go-back-in-order-to-go-forward-1.2173312

On the contrary Gallagher spoke how donegal were more opening then normal
Who are we to believe
Fair enough both management talk up their team so look at the evidence
Imo a donegal team that didn't conceded four goal to cork in donegal or kerry or Dublin in the league and didn't conceded four goals championship games I guess four years I'm to belive it's was nothing clinical bout cork but a non interested donegal

http://m.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2015/0412/693649-cuthbert-cork-needed-a-big-croke-park-performance/
Gallagher said it there more or less donegal had no interest and legs were tired as they obviously were training hard during the week
And he said Gallagher was fit to play but he didn't play him clear as day manager know interest to win this game
I posted at half time cork would win as donegal had ist half performance they wanted and sure look what happened after half time game over

Cuthbert said that ist fifteen minutes were like intense, imo which he is right but the whole ist half he needs to examine as cork drew with them , midfield imo cleaned out and they opened cork up at ease
He says the last fourteen or so minutes second half were like a challenge match and I'n interview said in times wouldn't dismiss totally a challenge
Well my take is simple, ist half was not really anywhere near championship but donegal had interest to be competitive for one half but after half time had none
The half time donegal talk I guess was we drew with them this half look we beat them already, nothing there to fear let them have this one

If you look hard enough like the great managers I mean the great really really greatest manager any sport have this insane admirable quality to even in meaningless less game a ability and ruthless conviction to still know what minimum standards are for players and know when to say they played well but level opportunity easy not great but looks at what they failed to do
If cork actually learned anything important from the ist half they would made have changes after twenty minutes
Talking the talking Imo from any manager becomes nauseating and tiresome regards defence improvement if the mistakes are not being corrected as then it's fair to wonder are manager bluffing their way through than actually being good enough
Again go back to Jim gavin example , he blamed himself after donegal past year
He was right he was he's faults
He has learned imo any on road redemption

Has cuthbert ever or he's selectors showed same humble nature and honesty within to say look I got it wrong last year I made mistakes , no he has not but closest we as group got it wrong he says
He stopped short apologies to cork fans after kerry
Imo I hugely worry this set up has not the character of manager like gavin purely as a manager to say hang on a minutes I can't blame players when I'm actually wrong
I hope to god for cork football some one says to the looks ye need to look at yere management and yere making mistakes and you can't expect players to win if they make the same mistakes also again and again

Some fans never cease amaze me , talk is how cork were breath taking in four goals and cork are better than last year and learned from last year

The goals were finished wonderfully yes but looks at the space created by poor non interested donegal defending
This is nothing as rosy as it being made out to be imo

I suggest anyone gets carried away with donegal game as wow we got four goals and we looked good go too donegal thread where fans clearly said no intention beating cork , one said he feared donegal when they went ahead were going to win
The dog on the street know they did not want to win
So imo forget the second half judge the ist half where seriously issues were exposed

Compare their Intensity to the Dublin league game and to the semi final and cork league game weeks ago it was world's apart

That second half was like a barbarian style rugby game at the end of may with no organisations or intensity in was easy on the eye,the host teams wins with forty points scored or more and poor out half looks the bees knees as like yesterday no real game management is needed

Now unfortunately me being realistic puts me imo as not giving cork credit and not support myself teams and as always against the management
I could sit on the fence and say nothing at all but then when it goes wrong then be the real wise pundit after
That imo is wrong
I would love cork to fix the problems I mention and win.
If cork are to win the all Ireland they have to solve them.

As known I support all cork teams from minor to ladies etc
Irish by birth cork by the grace of God
What I'm doing is not negative but realistic imo as don't accept this acceptable glory hunting of false dawns when we have huge issues going forward
We beat Dublin in croke park last year and I saw plenty of promise and praised them and said just learn lessons of the game
My difficulty is when same mistakes get repeated I begin to loose confidence
Interestingly cork are Seven half to one for the all Ireland miles off Dublin and kerry
Cork are joint third favourite with mayo but that's cause there's no other really stand out and imo donegal further back in fourth as there in ulster mine field cork have easier run to possible qualifier all Ireland
Mayo imo who have missed the boat and with compared last year much weaker in loss ed coughlan and outstanding James horan are hardly imo all Ireland contenders but they think that cork no better than mayo
Truth be told cork have golden opportunity to challenge for all Ireland as top threw if they got act together as rest field is poor
It wont always be that way though as kevin Walsh outstanding manager that's proven will improve Galway and they are playing deeper also but have a midfield and forwards
I belive meath if they got free run of injury would have good chance in a qualifier and there one team I'd not like to meet in Tullamore or portlaoise and while there in a poorer division than division one what strikes me is there second best defensive record in division two, there clearly gone defensive with Dublin in mind but still score
Meath are not telling the whole place like cork there defensive but doing talking on field and unlucky not get promoted but finished second with roscommon on points.
Meath who never really under o dowd favoured a sweeper system have clearly changed and played one this year in some games
They seem tighter at the back and learned lessons from when apparently Galway opened them up at will
My point is a division two team who were like cork attack minded have changed and became better defensive
Cork have shown no improvement in the defence system imo
I can't believe few pundits failed realise cork poor defensive record, either they have and choose to turn a blind eye to it.

If cork didn't qualify for the league but sorted midfield and had like kerry last year and Dublin this year had done so, I'd be happier as I then know cork solved two weak areas that crippled us last year
We havent at all at all solved those crucial areas

To say cork done all that's was asked them imo it is not true they did not
Yes credit due and thank god were not relegated but we did not solve midfield or defence really????so we did not do all that was asked of them
Cork were not as bad results wise as I feared but midfield and defence there's been little if any improvement

We can cover of up all day long cork problems as we please but with the greatest respect we should look at other counties and say we cant become them in they had huge issues in management no proven successful management team, some never learned mistakes from last year yet in January some would have you they were actually in reality all Ireland contenders
They never were unfortunately but yet they yet again and again build themselves up with false home only to be disappointed again as failure league shows

Id rather be deemed blunt and negative but realistic than have suffer humiliating embarrassment of thinking were flying, rock down to kerry yet like many many times only to be beaten again and wise after the event only to be seen as utterly naive and foolish

I was a naive foolish fan for so so long growing up and was like many , one victory here and there I blew them up and never realised the games at face value
However being a cork football supporter after so long it hardened me up as a fan where I decided I had seen enough false dawns to say as much as I want to be postive and let my emotions ride high and say cork have hope I now have changed , unless I have justified confidence in a team I see no point in trying to think otherwise as false dawns absolutely destroy teams imo of evolution that which is paramount to success as you can never solve a problem if you cod yourself in to thinking none exists
Acceptance is the ist step in any solution
I have the same attuide with all sport teams now
When a team deserves credit I'll laud them all day long with it

This league has been okay as we're not relegated but I stop short saying it's been a success, Dublin is a true test
I hope Dublin stick to the defensive style and not go all out attack
Dublin probably won't hammer cork but the test is if Dublin get a lead how they react
Dublin at full back is there for the taking if o Neill gets ball but the sweeper gives him problems getting quick ball in isolation Against best defence in the league

Cork in the last six years got to four league finals but have one all Ireland compared to kerry with two
If anything past history should tell us take it with a pinch of salt if we're winning despite huge weakness still there
You don't just have weakness in the team like cork have, and roll up in killarney against the improving all Ireland champions where your haven't won in an age and expect all to be resolved , you must show signs of improvements along the way

Before anyone thanks I'm harsh just consider two questions?
Are cork defensively sound eight games in
No as the statics show
And have cork a midfield to win aerial ball with strength in depth
No
Both these stats are not my opinion but a fact clear as day anyone can see
Imo a bit done with this team but a he'll of a lot work to do with time running out fast before killarney beckons

Just look at other teams who have false dawns
England soccer piss through the qualifying again and again but as Italy proved in challenge match still can't bear the top teams
Conor o shea in harlequin rugby another nice fella but a terrible pundit imo as he's too nice and it shows as rugby manager
He is better as director in English rugby where he was before in some role but he is an awful manager
This guy was tipped as Ireland manager before Joel schmidt
The false dawn is in a horrible horrible premiership of rugby harlequin look good and flatter to deceive but in Europe couldn't even get out of their group and are actually poor and as seen when despite two extra men for a bit struggled beat dire Gloucester yesterday but we're humiliating defeat to sarcens recently and big games he's found out
But have no doubt their fans year on year claim this is their year for a European cup

Limerick hurling blew up tj Ryan unfairly as a great manager when he was never that and bar a county with Kilworth has an appalling record
Last year success was limited imo and a false dawn as come the league they were absolutely dismal with great talent available

Liverpool went on a good run of games after November but huge issues in the team same problems never fixed
Their fans foolishly thought we turned a corner we can get fourth
Ist big games at the crunch end of the season they loose and fourth looks gone possibly may be saved by man City blow up as they have a over rated manager also who luckily scraped league last year

Stuart Barnes wrote a article blowing Northampton up at the start of the European cup and I posted then as examples another example of being blown up with no justifying logic to it

My point is there is some not all but some fans and media who blow teams chances out of proportion with out logic despite glaringly weak areas existing and it creates false perception their team has a chance when truth be told if signs were not ignored then it would be seen in truth they meter had a chance to begin with imo

These examples come to my next point
I don't or never have been to a England soccer match recently or Northampton or harlequin ones so I wouldn't be any way an expert on there teams in depth but from watching key games on tv and compared the one's they over time to current times it is easy to assess whether a team improves or not
It's quite easily done by any fan imo

I just watch old games they were beaten in, watch the new ones and rather than belive every huge hype in some media,I make my own judge ment on what I see before me
It's quite clear to see if teams improved or not
Also by picking out brutal honest writers and reading them, who call it as it is you learn a lot too

The point I'd make is if you do that trait with the cork football team and look at defeats last year and then watch the wins this year etc and the defeats,the same problems cork had then are actually the same as now and there's huge worries going forward

If cork are beaten again this year, the usual nonsense is spoken, we don't have the players, their over rated not as good as kerry etc when the fact is we actually do have the players but the wrong ones are being picked and they don't have the level of coaching elite that donegal Dublin and kerry had

Year two in this management imo was meant imo getting to an all Ireland final for cork , we're way way off despite having experienced of lads who won an all Ireland.

There is a false myth portrayed by some,that cork are young and inexperienced when it's the biggest pile of nonsense I ever heard when cadogan shields , colm o Neill Goulding, donnacha,kelly, Kerrigan all won all Irelands and loughrey has huge experience from antrim plus clancy, hurley Collins o rourke are not novices any more at this level
All you got to do is look at and it's clear cork have a lovely blend of youth and experience avaliable and there's simply no excuse not to be winning all Irelands or at least contesting finals when you see the armagh, Tyrone the donegal etc winning the last ten it so years

Rebelmor your absolutely right in your assement of the blanket regards cork
And the point is who is to blame, imo eight games in its awful awful reflection coaching that cork still are not any where near effective to this

Dublin played five o Bryne cup games with a host of young lads but from day one they started to build the defence structure and in five games conceded 3-43 which shows imo how fast they worked it in at this early stage they per game conceded an average of below a goal and nine or so per game back a few months ago
Even against waterford and tipp our defence structure was poor and against tipp where we went a half with out score from play and then v Waterford could not break down the blanket
Now credit due we have dropped some of the poor players played in those games that while good club players never deserved a chance yet with all respect to them Desmond and hazel got games yet Stephen cronin or dan mceoin never got as many chances

Cork nearly five months in , with nearly ten or so games played have not improved the defence at all at all and were on the eve of championship Football yet cork management are now never
questioned on this at all at all

However I don't see how some cork fans who was doubting this management only as far back as January suddenly says cork showed solid signs of being championship contenders this year and that there is signs of a solid defensive structure from last year when cork have outside kerry conceded worst scoring in the league and conceding huge scores I don't see this
To concede 7-109 in eight games is a worry
The point some make is cork negatives like midfield are down to injury
Take the last two defensive teams that won the all Ireland donegal and kerry, when they implement defensive style they used league as a means to do this

Donegal in the year they won the all Ireland in 2012 conceded 8-74 in the group stages and that was a year after they actually had built one and were trying to be more attack minded and while not best in the league at that time had solid foundation which to build on
Dublin who were all out attack in 2013 league just conceded 5-73 just kerry conceded in group stages LAST year league kerry had conceded a higher 8-94 but crucially was the best in the league and they improved it as time went on

Before cuthbert a non defensive blanket counihan defence with issues imo in defence conceded in 2013 4-85 in group stages and the year before in the league just one 75 conceded in winning groups stages in 2012 but when you include the semi final brings it to around 2-87 conceded
Compared to now 7-109 To the semi final yet this year we have a blanket

Since cuthbert took over cork last year conceded 9-97 In the league In the group stages but up to the semi 11-117
What imo has saved cork defence from being higher in concessions update to this year semi unlikely last year's is cork met team this year league semi final that had no interest to win unlike Dublin last year
The bottom line is since cuthbert took over imo the defensive system in the leagues has actually been extremely poor, rapidly gone down hill since counihan which imo begs the question does he teams actually know how you defend effectively
Against kerry in championship cork conceded 24 point yet this much talked about blanket v mayo conceded 1-19 and mayo hardly have array top forward scoring wise

I really questions he's team defending wise
Yes key players retired but still cork have still great defenders important if played in the best positions
Go back to minor in 2010 he while manager chopped and changed players in every game and they conceded 9-65 and got to the all Ireland final in six games
They conceded five goals to Galway While be fair in most games cork came back from the dead v Galway and kerry and against Tyrone he's teams imo either scrape to wins or loose, never entirely comfortable
They conceded 19 points to armagh If it happens one it's an accident but upon in depth review imo clear as manager cuthbert teams concede way too much so he imo has a lot to learn

While gene o driscoll had huge inputs in coaching I think cuthbert was main man picking the team as seen by he's consistency from minor management in now at senior picking lads out of positions

Imagine a George hook eammon dunphy types or Neil francais pundit in cork football they would or pat Spillane in kerry absolutely highlights this with their team's in no uncertain terns and clearly questions management
Cork on their other hand, fans thinking our defence is solid and no one really says this is poor defending in cork main football game
I hope cork ex greats say this our defensive system I's shambles so come championship it may be fixed

If conceding 7-109 is solid I sincerely hope I never see the day our defensive is poor in some people eyes

Imo no simply not can cork midfield problems be totally blamed on injury, that's a myth some try and create
Let's looking at the facts

Is Sean dinnen or kiely or laoire injured no their not
Maguire yes is a blow but they knew deane was out at the start of the year yet failed imo to try others rather than recall cussen that had no logic so imo not injury to blame but the management
We had kevin mcstay who imo should be mayo manager and the Dublin media telling us last spring how cork were real contenders
It's imo same again despite worry of three narrow last gasp wins, young Dublin missing key lads in ist game were hardly imo winning comfortable
Kerry and donegal imo non realistic games in didn't want to win
Donegal beat cork easily but the Murphy send off gave cork a moral victories imo

Is there a resemblance to last year
League
I think there is but let's prove it
Westmesth and Kildare who were dire last year and again this year cork actually struggled to beat them, point win v Kildare
They had one good win v Dublin in march like Tyrone away this year that showed imo promise
We beat kerry those and past years easily
We scraped a win v derry at home last year scraped a win away v monaghan
Mayo hammered us last year and derry this year
While those games be fair at the time the were played cork didn't have to win the similarities is like defeats to mayo and derry this year cork havent learned from the defeat in certain areas
We scraped past a awful mayo with joint manager's that won't work in cork despite being out played for large spells
Both this and lastly year were scoring well but conceding too much
I actually am struggling to find any real difference cork this year as last year this year's we topped the league
Flangan is the only key one imo a brilliant coach fitness but he's not tactical involved so imo same worries regards tactical ability this management and their perception judge players at elite level is exactly like last year's when you come last year's and this year
However one huge huge absolutely significant problems is while it was bad cork were known as too attack minded last year but this year were apparently defensive yet shockingly awful scoring concessions
So important if cork who meant be defensive offer those in the leagues and think it's acceptable this year is way worse than last year in this year the talk wash we learned from last year and fixed the mistakes when the evidence is proving different imo

Tompkins imo who is well able to talk regards how bad apparently football is and it's dying and rules need be changed , well just my opinion but Larry you should look closer to home regards the huge problems cork current football team have, before preaching to the country how to change a game that doesn't need to be changed

Larry goes on about the art and basics of the game are gone
Well you should tell that to the cork management who don't seem to understand two years in we have no ball winning midfield and seem happy to go along with no one effective their and our art of defending is dire to watch

As I said previously there's only fifteen numbers on the field so cork tactic of crabbing and swarming the midfield won't work as if that happens kerry and Dublin will have huge space to kick to as cork swarm aera others are free but also cork look light weight at midfield in context and kerry have powerhouse there that will break the tackle and challenge cork
Against monaghan Dublin when it went long to midfield cleaned out monaghan 24-8 a better monaghan midfield than cork
Cork won around thirty possessiona v donegal but most of those didn't go long so worry is Dublin


Ken o halloran could be cork saving grace v Dublin as he's without a doubt cork best shot stopper and could well be relied on make few saves
Yes kick outs are huge issue but I totally immune him from any blame in two years no effective midfield to aim at
You could put Sean firtpatrick one of the greatest hooker in rugby around in a a team and give him too second rows at international level, while good club players not international elite like Neil francais and Bob Casey and put them up against elite players like the John Eales and Fabien Pelous this world and he'd be made look ordinary at throwing.
Do you blame the greatest hooker in world rugby???
No he needs two not one but two locks who can win ball to aim at

Gould, credit due had a fine game v donegal but this was league football and he's had countless games I'n the past where he's been man of the match but against the elite midfielder like moran or maher or mcauley or o shea he imo won't do but yes he'll start off good with one trade mark point but when the need is greatest imo he won't deliver
He is a fine club player and is fine at a certain standard in the league in a comfort zone but when the level goes up he will struggle imo
It is like England playing Michael Carrick a fine player at club but he won't do v the german or Italian elite midfield as proven time and time again but still Hodgson persist with him
You don't blame the players you blame management for still picking them imo

Having 95 per cent better forwards than others is useless if cork don't get enough primary fast possession and you must not forget the two teams cork have to beat to win an all Ireland have top forwards like cork, in Dublin have mcnemmon flynn kilkenny etc but then go one step further and kerry have James o dounoughe and the Gooch. and geaney and Darren o sullivan and Donaghey so kerrys attacking threat is equal to cork but actually better as they have a midfield to give them possession and a defence structure to break up cork attack that they can then counter at pace, all of which cork can't do

The two teams to focus on are kerry and Dublin in that five per cent Is the crucial worry for us as cork have to beat them to win the all Ireland
They have forwards like us.

Donegal if they come through the mine field of ulster and their old legs are still fresh if play cork have Murphy and mcbrearty forwards who can score but with the likes of mchugh and mcneilish better half forwards In not only can they work hard and track back unlike the driscoll brothers kevin and colm they can create with kick passing and score long distance
I'm not the only one that don't rate colm and Kevin as martin brehony gave them a six in ratings in he's article
If cuthbert as proved last year v mayo has to choose between colm and o rourke as mayo proved last year he'll start colm
Yet cuthbert in an interview to the score in the past said he rated o rourke hugely and had lot quality and if he was taller would be midfield player
But again this manager says a but does b in o rourke has been over looked many times
This year he's getting more games but will he start in championship
Go right back to the munster final nightmare after wards he said cork have huge problems winning ball and while he acknowledged cork need ball to score he said he'd solve that problem
Nearly a year later and cork when under pressure hsve huge issues to win primary ball with midfield problems
Imo it's all talk but no solution

Brian o driscoll is brilliant and was for the under twenty ones Thursday night a few weeks ago and all credit due and imo has it all
He deserves he's place

A half forward line of driscoll, Collins and o rourke with Collins as a sweeper and o rourke and driscoll as two engines who can track back but have the vision to counter at pace and score would be awesome for cork to supply hurley and o Neill in a two man full forward line with donnacha picked in the full forward line but playing as a deep lying centre forward to cover space of Collins when Collins plays a defensive quatre back sweeper role
Unlike the present half forward line cork can score from both inside and outside the blanket as o Connor, o rourke, Collins and Brian o driscoll can score long distance
Our current half forward line at present can't do that
Everybody critsed the hand passing in counihan times as over done
Cork hand passed around 230 times v donegal and barely kicked ball
Imo nothing to be applauded as while opens up kerrys and donegal non interested defence come championship this hand passing has huge problems as when you hand pass too much unlike kicking you essentially close off your point of attack space in you're really inky attacking in a confined zone that's easy to defend against and hand passes normally shortly looking for runners that's increase risks of turnovers in a blanket but kick passing is better as unlike the slow methodical build up play that's allows defensive teams funnelled back numbers when you're kick pass your bypass the blanket by using pace and width to change their angle if attacking and spread around defenders rather than keep them bunched so your create space for one v one

Hand passes imo are fine as a second phase in attack after kick passes open up space it's good to offload to space but cork problems are using imo handpassing too much to generate ist phase attack from possession.

Cuthbert should know from the all Ireland minor final as Tyrone funnelled back numbers and won turnover after turnover
It's was better when cork went long with fast direct kicking to ball inside did cork comeback but too little too late
People laud fourteen goals cork for this league as saying cork are hard to defend against this league but still at least seven of those goals are imo nothing true value as kerry no intention beating cork just back training and donegal were as Gallagher said not the normal intense team but way more open than normal.
Half our goals tally came in those two games
Last year we were very good in that regard we got eleven in the league but come championship couldn't get enough ball to our forwards

My full back line would be shields cadogan and of course galvin
Half back line of loughrey and Stephen o dounoughe and clancy with o dounoughe bulk and aggression and strenght to be used in he's a holding midfield presence that never attacks but holds the centre to stop a repeat of last year when mayo and kerry flooded through runners through the centre and it was like the river lee bursting it's banks, horrible to watch but too late to do anything to stop it

Midfield would be maguire and dinnen or leary

Cork fans imo are so despondent and desperate for success in football after years of famine that some at times want cork to do well imo at times the first victory they get carried away rather than keep the feet on the ground and judge at face value games

I understand I seem a harsh critics cork football but I simply belive in realism and point is I so negative is simply not by choice but the fact there's and it pains me to say it's as a hardcore football cork gaa man there's lot negative things with cork football at present
This view shouldn't need seen as non supportive of cork as I will be in kerry and croke park in and at ist round and wanted so badly cork to win and cuthbert and co be great managers but imo it's perfectly reasonable to highlight faults within any set up once they are plain to see
I want cork so badly do well but I realise They wont if they dont solve problems
Have no doubt kerry and Dublin see problems in cork.
Dublin have problems but I get a sense there actually trying to solve them.

This post is longer than I wanted but I always belive if you critsed something you should try and support this with as much logic and fact as possible
Cork football is imo crying out for honesty within just like the hurling was years ago but blinds eye were turned and were now in hurling ten years almost with out a senior all Ireland all because no one had the courage to say problems existed but no dare not critse motto
Cork gaa deserves so might more we must have honesty within or we will suffer with respect like limerick hurling,(not offending any limerick fans just calling it as it is as record at seniors shows) England soccer , Liverpool this world, French rugby lots outstanding talent that don't get the success they once had.
Again it comes back to cody way, it's tough to critse your own but it's tough love.

slingerz wrote: »

great way of not answering the question, continue pontificating away anyway.

cork wont will the all ireland, they wont win the munster, the team doesnt have the players needed to win the big competitions. probably over achieved in getting to the league final

some top players like Colm O'Neill but too many that just are not good enough. lacks leaders like Nicholas Murphy, Canty, Miskella and have no player that takes the game by the scruff of the neck to inspire others.

lots of complaints about the keeper, he isnt as good as cluxton but he's not kicking it out to the same calibre of player either so a GK isnt the silver bullet to the kickout problem.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

There you go my post after Sunday
Now what are your team and how do you rate management please

slingerz wrote: »

you can have whatever game plan you want, all out attack or the ultra defensive blanket but without hard work and some heart your on a hiding to nothing.

it is the duty of the players to bring the hard work and heart to the field each time to go out. if they game plan is wrong then lay the blame to the manager but the players have to be seen to be working hard and giving there all for the cause but they didnt do that on sunday

slingerz wrote: »

they are competitive they got to the division 1 league final they will get to a munster final they will get to a quarter final at the very least but they lack the class to take it further than that.

competitive is a relative term, they are competitive whereas Waterford are not but neither team are contenders for a championship

slingerz wrote: »

How many times do i have to tell you that i dont rate them???

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

That no real debate value then you come I'm and slate cork players played yet you won't give others

So are you actually saying not fifteen footballers cork county cork that at least can compete???when you won't name a team to say the players aren't there

Look your entitled to you view I'll leave it there

slingerz wrote: »

if you want a team

O'Halloran
Loughrey
Shields
Cadogan
Brian O'Driscoll
Tom Clancy
Tomas Clancy
Gould
Maguire
O'Rourke
Kelly
Kerrigan
O'Neill
Collins
Hurley

I'd have 4 forwards, Hurley & O'Neill in the full line and Kelly and Collins in the half line. The remainder would be back in the defence. Let O'Driscoll, Clancy- Fermoy, O'Rourke and Kerrigan work at getting around the pitch along with the midfielders. Loughrey at corner back as all opponents will withdraw 1 of their full forward out the field

problem is the players are just not good enough or tough enough.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

No it'd not as you didn't post much recently
I reposted my team for you
Look I'm not going toe toe with you unless you will engage in debate and your not posting your team so I can't debate
But fair play the next humiliating defeat say the players aren't there

slingerz wrote: »

the only players cork have that are good enough to be on an all ireland winning team at this time are Colm O'Neill, Cadogan, Shields. possibly Paddy Kelly/Donnacha off the bench for a top side.

how many cork players would be the dublin or kerry teams??

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

That's irrelevant in about systems get every inch out your team
How many donegal players made kerry team years ago

Few
How many munster lads made all blacks in 78
None

How many Ireland team two years ago made all blacks possibly three maybe
However Ireland still were competitive as every inch was got out them

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your wrong their your missing the point completely whether you can't see it or convently choose to I'm not sure
Let me make this crystal clear


Donegal had no heart no fight no cohesion under john joe Doherty

At least eleven that same team a year later won an ulster title so you're wrong they did win


Now back to my original question what was the difference between that almost same donegal team then to year later
Now it wasn't that they had weetbix, drank gallons of water, or like mushrooms came over night it was actually very simplistic in they went from poor management to absolutely outstanding management




Point was that core players believed in new coach mcguiness something never done under Doherty and he made them better players

What a difference a year makes I belive is a song but in terms management is actually of real value imo