Public sector pay increase

MonkeyTennis · 28-04-2015 01:02PM

test3test wrote: »

Whatever about buying cars and houses they should not be able to go on hen and stag weekends to Berlin and fancy cities like that as well as other fancy holidays every few months, as well as having a fancy pension to look forward to.

Bemused

Tiger Mcilroy · 28-04-2015 01:04PM

Genuine question here, has the performance appraisal issue where only a tiny percentage are deemed unsatisfactory been resolved.

People are getting increments based on a completely flawed system, has anything been done to identify the non performers?

Its universally recognised that in any company around 10% would not meet standard but in the irish public and civil servive this number is around 1%..

test3test · 28-04-2015 01:05PM

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

Bemused

You may well be bemused, but I know loads of public sector workers with great lifestyles,....not surprising when one years average public sector salary would more than comfortably buy an average 2 bedroom apartment in nearly every Irish county except Dublin.

jank · 28-04-2015 01:07PM

Yara Old Backyard wrote: »

That us total bull s*it, public sector pay hadn't a single thing to do with the crash.

Christ some people are seriously blinded by their hate of the public sector, must have been turned down for one of the "highly paid" jobs.

It did. You may not like it but them are the facts. The outlays of the government back in 2007 was unsustainable due to the types of taxes we were collecting. If we were more prudent and did not increase pay by such an insane amount in such a short period of time we would have a) taken some steam out of the property market, b) had more scope in case of a crash to correct the economy and finally c) the level of debt would be nowhere near as much. Remember only about 23% of the current debt is due to the bank bailout, the rest is due to spending on things like PS pay.

This was the reason the IMF and the ECB were called in to bail us out. Our finances were broken due to a perfect storm of a property collapse, a bank guarantee we could not uphold and government outgoings for pay and pensions and the like.

In short, yes the PS pay increases from 2000 to 2007 did have a major impact on the crash of 2008 and the bailout of 2011.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:07PM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Genuine question here, has the performance appraisal issue where only a tiny percentage are deemed unsatisfactory been resolved.

People are getting increments based on a completely flawed system, has anything been done to identify the non performers?

Its universally recognised that in any company around 10% would not meet standard but in the irish public and civil servive this number is around 1%..

Well when your manager is looking to get his/her raise she is not going to mark people down in the department to make it look like they are not doing a good job.

MonkeyTennis · 28-04-2015 01:08PM

you think the average public sector wage is what about 175k?

jank · 28-04-2015 01:08PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Right. :rolleyes:

Check the CSO stats, its all there in black and white. Some people would rather deny reality then admit their world view is wrong.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:10PM

MonkeyTennis wrote: »

you think the average public sector wage is what about 175k?

Nope, but did get to 20% over the private sector. So to high. Saying private sector wages were high to justify even higher public sector wages is baffling to me.

The_Valeyard · 28-04-2015 01:22PM

jank wrote: »

It did. You may not like it but them are the facts. The outlays of the government back in 2007 was unsustainable due to the types of taxes we were collecting. If we were more prudent and did not increase pay by such an insane amount in such a short period of time we would have a) taken some steam out of the property market, b) had more scope in case of a crash to correct the economy and finally c) the level of debt would be nowhere near as much. Remember only about 23% of the current debt is due to the bank bailout, the rest is due to spending on things like PS pay.

This was the reason the IMF and the ECB were called in to bail us out. Our finances were broken due to a perfect storm of a property collapse, a bank guarantee we could not uphold and government outgoings for pay and pensions and the like.

In short, yes the PS pay increases from 2000 to 2007 did have a major impact on the crash of 2008 and the bailout of 2011.

North Korea's Propagandists would be proud of the way you can distort reality.

Iwasfrozen · 28-04-2015 01:23PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

North Korea's Propagandists would be proud of the way you can distort reality.

I think NK would be more impressed with our bloated public sector. Maybe SIPTU can invite over some of their economic analysts?

bobbysands81 · 28-04-2015 01:24PM

test3test wrote: »

Whatever about buying cars and houses they should not be able to go on hen and stag weekends to Berlin and fancy cities like that as well as other fancy holidays every few months, as well as having a fancy pension to look forward to.

What fancy pensions? It's a myth.

If I paid into a private pension I'd get a much higher return... unfortunately I'm not allowed, ever wonder why paying into our pension is compulsory? The answer is simple, the Govt get faaaaaar more from the pension levy and our other pension contributions than they pay out to us.

bobbysands81 · 28-04-2015 01:26PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I think NK would be more impressed with our bloated public sector. Maybe SIPTU can invite over some of their economic analysts?

Bloated public sector?

Can you back that up with some facts please? Even at the height of our PS numbers we weren't bloated by comparison to international standards and to similar countries.

darkpagandeath · 28-04-2015 01:26PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Bloated public sector?

Can you back that up with some facts please? Even at the height of our PS numbers we weren't bloated by comparison to international standards and to similar countries.

Loads of people in the HSE and its still terrible.

bobbysands81 · 28-04-2015 01:27PM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Genuine question here, has the performance appraisal issue where only a tiny percentage are deemed unsatisfactory been resolved.

People are getting increments based on a completely flawed system, has anything been done to identify the non performers?

Its universally recognised that in any company around 10% would not meet standard but in the irish public and civil servive this number is around 1%..

No, it hasn't been properly resolved... it's going to be very difficult to resolve in any meaningful way.

28-04-2015 01:31PM

jank would you care to link to the relevant CSO stats showing the increases you refer to? I'd be very surprised if you're referring to the mean pay per employee. But then I have a feeling that you're not because that wouldn't suit your point.

jank · 28-04-2015 01:32PM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

North Korea's Propagandists would be proud of the way you can distort reality.

Again the truth hurts. I see a lot of smart alec replies but no actual real effort of a rebuttal with facts. I think that speaks volumes.

Tiger Mcilroy · 28-04-2015 01:56PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

No, it hasn't been properly resolved... it's going to be very difficult to resolve in any meaningful way.

Why?..its a system where the staff underperforming are identified and appropriate measures are taken.

Surely its in all the staffs interest to get this working.

28-04-2015 02:04PM

test3test wrote: »

Whatever about buying cars and houses they should not be able to go on hen and stag weekends to Berlin and fancy cities like that as well as other fancy holidays every few months, as well as having a fancy pension to look forward to.

Sure why not remove public servants passports, how dare they go abroad for a weekend or for holidays.

Warper · 28-04-2015 02:13PM

Election buying is great for the public sector

Iwasfrozen · 28-04-2015 02:13PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Bloated public sector?

Can you back that up with some facts please? Even at the height of our PS numbers we weren't bloated by comparison to international standards and to similar countries.

It was by the amount of money being spent.

Riskymove · 28-04-2015 02:23PM

Tiger Mcilroy wrote: »

Why?..its a system where the staff underperforming are identified and appropriate measures are taken.

Surely its in all the staffs interest to get this working.

It is in staff's interest

the problem is finding an effective way of measuring performance standards in a lot of work areas that can be applied to everyone

test3test · 28-04-2015 02:27PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Loads of people in the HSE and its still terrible.

No wonder when our hospital consultants are paid double what they are in Germany.

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 02:28PM

test3test wrote: »

Indeed there was an article in the papers last year that pointed out that in nearly all Irish counties, one years average public sector salary would more than comfortably buy an average 2 bedroom apartment. Apartments can be got for €49,000 and less in most counties.

Nowhere else in the world can public servants buy a relatively new apartment for the equivalent of less than one years gross wages. The country is still borrowing tens of billions and yet they want a 2% increase?

That would be fine if the population was evenly distributed - but it's not and given that public services are dictated by the public, get everyone to move and then you can 'smooth out' the delivery of services.

You want people to live in Leitrim but work in Dublin???

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 02:30PM

test3test wrote: »

No wonder when our hospital consultants are paid double what they are in Germany.

Fine, if people are advocating German wages why not advocate German standards of medical care?

I worked in Germany for a bit and didn't mind paying my compulsory health insurance because the levels of service were there.

Forcing salaries down, esp in relation to highly mobile professionals like doctors, forces people out.

astrofool · 28-04-2015 02:31PM

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What fancy pensions? It's a myth.

If I paid into a private pension I'd get a much higher return... unfortunately I'm not allowed, ever wonder why paying into our pension is compulsory? The answer is simple, the Govt get faaaaaar more from the pension levy and our other pension contributions than they pay out to us.

Then why don't you pay into a private pension and give up your right to a public sector pension? Approach your shop steward to allow you to do this.

The PS pension payout levels are far in excess of what is paid in, it's run as a current account that will one day fall flat on it's face, but we'll let the next generation figure that out, as long as we get our pound of flesh.

Jawgap · 28-04-2015 02:34PM

astrofool wrote: »

Then why don't you pay into a private pension and give up your right to a public sector pension? Approach your shop steward to allow you to do this.

The PS pension payout levels are far in excess of what is paid in, it's run as a current account that will one day fall flat on it's face, but we'll let the next generation figure that out, as long as we get our pound of flesh.

I asked and looked to take my pensions contributions out from the 'public' scheme and there's no mechanism to allow for it.

The reason I wanted to do so was to stuff my private fund which was and is performing better.

test3test · 28-04-2015 02:38PM

Jawgap wrote: »

You want people to live in Leitrim but work in Dublin???

Nobody suggested that, but at the moment Gerry the Guard in Leitrim and Teresa the teacher in Belmullet and Ciaran the decentralised civil servant in Ballygobackwards are paid nearly double what their counterparts are in London and Dusseldorf and Paris...and they still want 2% more!!!! FFS.

If the government wants to increase peoples take home pay, let them reduce taxes - that will help both the private and public sectors.

osarusan · 28-04-2015 02:40PM

test3test wrote: »

No wonder when our hospital consultants are paid double what they are in Germany.

You think the HSE is terrible because consultants are paid a lot?

bobbysands81 · 28-04-2015 02:44PM

astrofool wrote: »

Then why don't you pay into a private pension and give up your right to a public sector pension? Approach your shop steward to allow you to do this.

Wouldn't you think that if the Govt wasn't quids in in relation to pensions that they'd give us an opt out?! Now why isn't there an opt out? The answer is simple, the Govt take in far more from our pensions than they will be paying us out.

astrofool wrote: »

The PS pension payout levels are far in excess of what is paid in, it's run as a current account that will one day fall flat on it's face, but we'll let the next generation figure that out, as long as we get our pound of flesh.

I challenge you to back up the assertion that they pay out more than people now pay in.

I'm in my 30's and pay more than 140euro per week into my pension. After 40 years of paying this I will get a pension of approx 17k.*

If I was to pay that per week into a private pension how much would I get? (I'll give you a clue... it'll be far more than 17k per year.)

*The amount is likely to change for the worse before I get to retirement age.

bobbysands81 · 28-04-2015 02:45PM

test3test wrote: »

Nobody suggested that, but at the moment Gerry the Guard in Leitrim and Teresa the teacher in Belmullet and Ciaran the decentralised civil servant in Ballygobackwards are paid nearly double what their counterparts are in London and Dusseldorf and Paris...and they still want 2% more!!!! FFS.

An utterly irrelevant comparison.

Public sector pay increase

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