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Public sector pay increase

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Comments

  • #302
    Kelly06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Kelly06


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Isn't the salary for a graduate nurse 22k?

    Its not a lot but lots of graduates start around that rate. A business grad entering an accountancy practice may start on less. Hotel junior duty managers work savage hours and they have 4 years of study same as nurses.

    Nurses can lobby for more than 22k but its not a huge difference to other graduates. You may say they worked during placements but other degree courses have placements too

    With super Annuation, pension levy and all the usual taxes that's a lot less that some one in the private sector would come out with. Fairly anti social hours too. Wouldn't want to work in those conditions for 350 a week !


  • #303
    Jack Nicklaus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4 ✭Jack Nicklaus


    Teachers are a bad example as they only work part-time.

    Equally, graduate nurses earn what most trainee professionals earn so again they're not a great example.

    The pay cuts of 2008/2009 were just the trimming of some of the wild excesses of the period leading up to then. We've seen zero inflation since, so there are no grounds for salary increases.


  • #304
    Kelly06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Kelly06


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »


    Of course they could, why couldn't they?

    Because they should be the protector of its citizens rights !


  • #305
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Kelly06 wrote: »
    Because they should be the protector of its citizens rights !
    De-unionization is not an infringement of citizen rights.


  • #306
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Kelly06 wrote: »
    Because they should be the protector of its citizens rights !

    To protect it's citizens it should demand the abolishment of unions. No more bullshít strike action that fcuks up the whole country.


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  • #307
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    So.. 4 posts across 2 threads and your message is "I want everything for free and someone else should pay for it" ?

    Interesting.
    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    De-unionizing is not an infringement of citizen rights.

    Are you thick?

    How can the countries constitution guarantee workers union rights and then decide not to recognise unions. Wake up.


  • #308
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    De-unionizing is not an infringement of citizen rights.

    Are you thick?

    How can the countries constitution guarantee workers union rights and then decide not to recognise unions. Wake up.


  • #309
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    How can the countries constitution guarantee workers union rights and then decide not to recognise unions. Wake up.

    It does not guarantee workers union rights. It guarantees workers the right to join a union!


  • #310
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    You may not know Gleesons of Borrisoleigh but you know their products: Tipperary Water, Finches and Devils Bit Cider.

    Let drivers some with over a decades service go in their depot in Ballyfermot and replaced them the next morning with agency driver.

    They didn't let everyone go of course, it was SIPTU members who were told their job didn't exist but there was enough work for an agency worker the next day.

    Gleesons were taken to court by SIPTU and the workers won though they were still out of a job.

    Posters here calling for abolishment of unions but who protects a worker like these drivers? Could be your job some day


  • #311
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    Are you thick?

    How can the countries constitution guarantee workers union rights and then decide not to recognise unions. Wake up.
    No, I'm not thick.

    The constitution guarantees the rights of workers to join unions, it doesn't guarantee employer co-operation. The government in this case being the employer.
    mikemac1 wrote: »
    You may not know Gleesons of Borrisoleigh but you know their products: Tipperary Water, Finches and Devils Bit Cider.

    Let drivers some with over a decades service go in their depot in Ballyfermot redundant and replaced them the next morning with agency driver.

    They didn't let everyone go of course, it was SIPTU members who were told their job didn't exist but there was enough work for an agency worker the next day.

    Gleesons were taken to court by SIPTU and the the workers won though they were still out of a job.

    Posters here calling for abolishment of unions but who protects a worker like these drivers? Could be your job some day
    We're specifically talking about the public sector here.


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  • #312
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    Are you thick?

    Mod: Leave out the personal abuse

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #313
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    They didn't let everyone go of course, it was SIPTU members who were told their job didn't exist but there was enough work for an agency worker the next day.

    Gleesons were taken to court by SIPTU and the the workers won though they were still out of a job.

    Posters here calling for abolishment of unions but who protects a worker like these drivers? Could be your job some day

    If these workers knew just a little bit about employment law they wouldn't need a union to do this for them. I think I learned this stuff in junior cert business studies...


  • #314
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    smash wrote: »
    If these workers knew just a little bit about employment law they wouldn't need a union to do this for them. I think I learned this stuff in junior cert business studies...

    Ya because a truck driver armed with a junior cert law textbook would be well able to take a large employer to court. No bother to him.


  • #315
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    smash wrote: »
    If these workers knew just a little bit about employment law they wouldn't need a union to do this for them. I think I learned this stuff in junior cert business studies...

    Pay dues to a union or ask your unemployed comrades to get together a few thousand for a solicitor to represent everyone.

    A good employment law solicitor won't do that for free and the employer will certainly be ready to outwit a group of drivers. Some of them never did the inter cert!


  • #316
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    Ya because a truck driver armed with a junior cert law textbook would be well able to take a large employer to court. No bother to him.

    It's actually very easy to do. And it doesn't take much to learn your rights.


  • #317
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    My point is they shouldn't and de-unionizng the sector would allow for much greater flexibility to the benefit of the nation as a whole.

    I honestly don't know what greater flexibility there would be. Again apart from nurses and some teaching unions there has been no disruption, people are working longer hours, pay etc has been cut,new technologies utilised. I really don't know what you are looking for.

    Where I see a problem is within the performance indicators system. My job now has become a box ticking exercise. Perform X number of surveys per quarter. Perform Y number of inspections per month. Categorise different problems into different excell or word documents and have the figures ready for the mid term or annual reviews. Make sure the required number are done within the timeframe allowed.
    A person could go off on a limb and work on their own initiative however that work would not be recognised. There is no register available to define such works. The system in my section is now to wait for the jobs to come down from Dept level and do the amount required. Do too few and you won't get the increment,do too many and you're pulled back!
    The system needs changing from the top down but it won't happen. And just to address your point that's not the fault of the unions. That's the fault of management.


  • #318
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    smash wrote: »
    It's actually very easy to do. And it doesn't take much to learn your rights.

    You've lodged cases in the high court and represented yourself before then? Never knew it was so easy. Someone should tell those lads in funny wigs and dressing gowns.


  • #319
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    You've lodged cases in the high court and represented yourself before then? Never knew it was so easy. Someone should tell those lads in funny wigs and dressing gowns.
    Do you read your own posts? Do you grasp the concept of... anything?

    You engage with a solicitor and they deal with it! Even SIPTU engage with solicitors to act on behalf of their members?


  • #320
    Kelly06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Kelly06


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    You've lodged cases in the high court and represented yourself before then? Never knew it was so easy. Someone should tell those lads in funny wigs and dressing gowns.

    It would probably be the rights commissioner or labour relations commission rather than the high court that would hear matters in ralation to employment


  • #321
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    smash wrote: »
    Do you read your own posts? Do you grasp the concept of... anything?

    You engage with a solicitor and they deal with it! Even SIPTU engage with solicitors to act on behalf of their members?

    And pray tell how is an individual truck driver going to afford paying solicitor/barrister fees?

    What they could do is band together collectively, and if one of them needed legal counsel and services this collective could pay for it. If they had enough of them, they could even hold a legal professional on retainer to consult them on a broad plethora of issues.


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  • #322
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    And pray tell how is an individual truck driver going to afford paying solicitor/barrister fees?

    What they could do is band together collectively, and if one of them needed legal counsel and services this collective could pay for it. If they had enough of them, they could even hold a legal professional on retainer to consult them on a broad plethora of issues.

    No win no fee. It's very easy and it's how a lot of solicitors work...


  • #323
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    I honestly don't know what greater flexibility there would be. Again apart from nurses and some teaching unions there has been no disruption, people are working longer hours, pay etc has been cut,new technologies utilised. I really don't know what you are looking for.
    I want to see an end to across the board public sector pay increases while we're in deficit. I want to see public sector workers sacked if they're rubbish at their job.


  • #324
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    smash wrote: »
    No win no fee. It's very easy and it's how a lot of solicitors work...

    That's generally for personal injury claims. You'll do very well to find a no win/no fee employment lawyer. You're talking through your hat.


  • #325
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    That's generally for personal injury claims. You'll do very well to find a no win/no fee employment lawyer. You're talking through your hat.

    No it's not. Given their case, they'd have found a solicitor no problem.


  • #326
    Kelly06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Kelly06


    SMASH IRISH WATER wrote: »
    That's generally for personal injury claims. You'll do very well to find a no win/no fee employment lawyer. You're talking through your hat.

    This is correct you won't find solicitors taking on a pro bono case without a pretty good chance of winning.


  • #327
    SMASH IRISH WATER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭SMASH IRISH WATER


    smash wrote: »
    No it's not. Given their case, they'd have found a solicitor no problem.

    Show me some examples so.


  • #328
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Kelly06 wrote: »
    This is correct you won't find solicitors taking on a pro bono case without a pretty good chance of winning.

    An initial consultation fee costs peanuts. The solicitor will tell you if there's a case there or not. Given the scale of the case, a solicitor would take it on.


  • #329
    Kelly06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Kelly06


    smash wrote: »
    An initial consultation fee costs peanuts. The solicitor will tell you if there's a case there or not. Given the scale of the case, a solicitor would take it on.

    They would, and they would charge you the appropriate hourly rate. I'm not sure you can get an order for costs against your employer in the lrc or rights commissioner. Friend of mine brought a case and his solicitor charged 400 for a half day appearance. Legal representation is not required I personally know people who have represented themselves.

    Anyways we are getting off topic ....


  • #330
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Most IR stuff is dealt with by shop stewards and branch officials on a regular if not daily basis.
    When it comes to factory closures and lay offs all of the unions have their own experienced legal heads.
    As someone else said we're drifting off side.


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  • #331
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,353 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I listened to the report from the Garda conference earlier, and how a 2% pay rise would not be acceptable as its too low.

    Did I miss something? Is the country still not in debt to the tune of €180 billion?
    Why does everyone seem to think that its 2000 all over again, and we have money to throw around us?

    Surely we have learned something from the past?


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